Lilith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Onion Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > I have also posted my personal knowledge that
> JRS
> > NEVER commissioned Gary and Marilyn to take the
> > Apostolic mantle.
>
> I wonder what would have happened if just one
> person would have stood up in a service during
> their power grab and said that what they were
> doing wasn't what John wanted. Not to say what
> John did was really any better but would it have
> rocked the boat just enough. Would they have been
> murdered, because people were pretty crazy back
> then. Would anyone have listened?

It's nuts that violence against a 'whistleblower' would even be considered. But you're right, that approach may not have been ruled out by certain members of the fellowship, especially during that time period--after many of them had recently participated in years of death prayers against John's wife. The transition for a zealous, unhinged believer from 'prophesying' something to implementing it is not necessarily a big leap. Most of the time, however, those who spoke out were just shamed, ostracized and put on a 'disciplinary' work program...and that was sufficient.

#Oneness



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2019 10:20PM by changedagain.

Of course, this changed after Shalom went public, and I read her heart-wrenching account. If you're alive, you should be evolving.

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: changedagain
Date: May 06, 2018 10:21AM

NickleandDimed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lot of agreement among men here. Sometimes G&M
> gave direction. Not always. Why can't you see
> that. Is it because you were taught at all cost to
> protect your fellow ministry.
No

> Those sexually abused by ministries didn't get
> that direction from G&M. It's pretty sickening to
> see you pat each other on the back here.

I've never commented on the subject of sexual abuse. That was not anything I experienced in the cult, nor anyone I knew personally. I write from my experience--dealing with other types of abuse, much of it originating from the teaching and example of G & M. At no time did I say that G & M directed ministries to sexually abuse members of the fellowship. My emphasis has always been on the authoritarian nature of the movement, where members' acceptance is based almost entirely on their loyalty and obedience. This emphasis sets the tone where all types of abuse can occur, and be tolerated if it doesn't negatively impact G & M...or going further back, John.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2019 10:43PM by changedagain.

In a culture where submission was valued above all, and if you're a leader covering one's own ass or the ass of a relative was important, it's inevitable that abuse that would be harmful to the innocents (little people) was the result.The fanatical loyalty towards leadership only added to the brew.The generation that threw their children into this should be held accountable.

C H A N G E D


"...abuse can occur, and be tolerated if it doesn't negatively impact G & M...or going further back, John."

WOW. The con to protect the con.

We were mesmerized by having our ears tickled. The spell has now been broken--for most.

* * *

D B C

"The generation that threw their children into this should be held accountable."

Being a part of that generation, most of the ones I know are not at odds with their children. On the contrary, most are very close.

That does not excuse others I am aware of that participated in at least psychologically abusing the children that resisted toting the party line.

Everyone on both sides of this equation is coming to terms with the degree of brainwashing (boiling the frog s l o w l y) over multiple decades. Having been an inhabitant of the bleacher crowd, most of the folks I have known for decades did not participate in the atrocities that have come light.

Most will continue to go through the paradigm shift that this event has brought about. Standing together rather than separating apart will hasten this transition into a real 'new day'.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2019 04:55PM by kBOY.

Speaking of a 'new day', I find it ironic that as many times as that was proclaimed over the years in TLW, the REAL 'new day' for everyone begins the moment you walk away from TLW.

I am sure that was not the intended meaning of that tedious repetition, but HEAVEN does work in mysterious ways and the 'word' does not return void . . .

Even the most fanatical supporters/followers/kool-aid mixers were victims of mind control and abuse. When someone became a participant in the harm as well as the financial benefit, they transformed themselves, by choice, into a perpetrator.

I know people who submitted their children to the weird concepts and doctrines of the G&M era who regret it daily. Thank God, many have their relationship back with their children. Some are still struggling.

Lilith - Your post about how much harm could have been stopped had we all spoken up earlier, put me into some deep ponderings. I mentioned that G&M wanted Marilyn's kids to inherit the churches. Their idea that they had ownership, and could, therefore, leave the churches as an inheritance, was and is ridiculous if not horrifying. But at the time I heard their idea, I had not read the 1992 Amended Bylaws or Restated Articles of Incorporation. In 1992 and 1993, I was finishing law school and studying for the Bar, so I did not know of changes made during that period.

I later heard their desire for the inheritance of the churches as just a silly fantasy without realizing how horrible they were for having that desire. Now that I know the extent of the Hargrave/Holbrook avarice, nepotism, and narcissism, I wish I had been more alert to what the hell was going on. And I wish I had started speaking up many years earlier. All I know now is to keep speaking and keep uncovering their plots and lies.

Let's all keep looking for new information confirming the wrongdoing. Like Changedagain, my focus on wrongdoing has primarily been the financial and spiritual/emotional abuses. I believe there is a lot more to find and expose.

O N I O N


"I believe there is a lot more to find and expose."

On one level we all kind of wish that were not the case, with many still processing all of the heartache that has already come thus far. The disclosures themselves have a PTSD impact on those who attempt to process the news.

You are probably correct in your assessment of further wrongdoings on behalf of some impressive scoundrels we had elevated to a status that kept them mostly out of sight.

Being accountable to no one but themselves was the perfect formula for them to be other than themselves.

How the mighty have fallen . . .

kBOY Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> O N I O N

> "I believe there is a lot more to find and
> expose."

> On one level we all kind of wish that were not the
> case, with many still processing all of the
> heartache that has already come thus far. The
> disclosures themselves have a PTSD impact on those
> who attempt to process the news.


Yes, the combination of becoming aware of the vast extent of wrongdoing by former TLWF leadership and knowing there is a distinct possibility that they will never be held legally accountable for it, is a depressing reality to absorb. And, as you mentioned kBoy, it could easily add to the trauma. In my case, years ago I decided that simply writing truthfully about my experiences in that mess while reading other ex-member's accounts, was worthwhile in itself. It helped lift me out of the doldrums and provided purpose. Yet, we're all wired differently, and what is helpful for one may not work for another.
Of course, we were taught never to prioritize our own personal well-being, and just finding a way to drop that pernicious conditioning is a big step toward "moving forward." Each person's mental and emotional state should be top priority.

p.s. It's been over 20 years since I paid a visit to the "center of the universe," and I haven't missed it.

There are so many things that would have influenced me greatly to leave TLWF long before I did. I might have left had I known, for instance, about JRS' many affairs and cover-ups, or about G&M's relationship long before the wedding was announced abruptly less than a year after JRS' death. If I had known about Rick and others abusing children and G&M moving heaven and earth to hide it...well, that would have done it for sure.

Hindsight is 20/20, and as has been pointed out many times, no one person knew the whole story except for those named above. If someone had stood in church shouting the truth, would we have believed them? Doubtful. That person would have been quickly gaslighted and ostracized. If a friend came privately to disclose knowledge to me? More likely that I would have believed. The fact is that we were all carefully groomed by narcissistic cult leaders. Knowledge was meticulously hidden from those who couldn't "handle" it (were not loyal enough). We were convinced that we would be worthless without the group and its "apostles".

Yes, the crimes of leaders are now obvious. We have put the puzzle pieces together because brave souls have come forward to tell what they know. Before the internet and social media, this would have been unlikely, if not impossible. The point is, now we know, except for those who are still too brainwashed with fear to read and connect the dots. My hope going forward is that there is punishment for grievous crimes commited by leaders. I hope that those responsible do not benefit monetarily in any way from the closing of churches. I hope that more people who are still trapped wake up and realize that they are valuable as individuals even without the group. Whether people are held legally accountable or not, at least now we have the opportunity to live free from the stranglehold under which we suffered for so many years.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2019 10:41PM by Reepicheep.

Quote

Posted by: changedagain
Date: September 29, 2019 08:31AM

In my case, years ago I decided that simply writing truthfully about my experiences in that mess while reading other ex-member's accounts, was worthwhile in itself. It helped lift me out of the doldrums and provided purpose. Yet, we're all wired differently, and what is helpful for one may not work for another.

Of course, we were taught never to prioritize our own personal well-being, and just finding a way to drop that pernicious conditioning is a big step toward "moving forward." Each person's mental and emotional state should be top priority.

p.s. It's been over 20 years since I paid a visit to the "center of the universe," and I haven't missed it.

Trying to remember my last trip to The Center of the Universe...1995 or 1996 or before? Wow, over 20 years for me too.

I'm glad that you have been speaking up for so many years, changedagain. Writing is therapy, but it helps those reading too. ; )



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2019 12:04AM by Reepicheep.