kfinotti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow...that’s all I can say right now. I grew up in
> TLW. My parents met and married at Cornish.
> (First direct contact with GH...I never knew why,
> but I never liked him. John Miller, Randy Parks
> and many others there were all fine with me then
> (I was 11/12 yo), but something felt wrong to me
> with GH). We lived at and thru the debacle known
> as “the mine/ranch”, we left for awhile, returned
> on the east coast, I graduated from high school at
> Shiloh...and then I was done with it all. Why?
> Because my teen brain decided that “I don’t want
> the elders to tell me how to live.” Somehow, some
> way, He was looking out for me.


You go girl!
>
> I never witnessed any of the things that Shalom or
> Maureen have written about and posted on social
> media. But as I said, I was done in 1980.
>
> I remember gossip and rumors, but you didn’t ask
> questions. I tried to ask my parents, but was
> shut down. My father crossed over as a member of
> the Grants Pass church and my mom is still there.
> She has told me more than once that she will never
> leave “the body”, ever again. She and my father
> actually bought the property where the Grants Pass
> church sits and gave it to TLW. I try not to be
> bitter or hurt, but my parents never gave me
> anything. I’ve done just fine in life, but what
> an eye opener!
>
> As this mess unfolds, I’m interested in seeing who
> will be held accountable. I’ve spoken to my mom
> since this all started, but she’s not even
> mentioned it. I won’t ask her either...she
> believes dirty laundry belongs in the hamper and
> not outside being aired!

Two days without the ONION

Is all well with you?

Altar_Kent Wrote:
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> Is anyone familiar with this movement? It is
> based in Kalona Iowa at a camp/compound called
> Shiloh. IT is primarily located in the United
> states, but also has churches in Brazil and japan.
> It was founded by John Robert Stevens and first
> called the walk. Stevens came out of the Latter
> Rain movement, built quite a congregation, and
> then died in 1983. The Living word Fellowship is
> currently being run by Gary and Marilyn Hargrave.
>
> IF you are familiar with it, there is an ongoing
> discussion about it at
>
> [www.factnet.org]
>
> I was a former member, born into the cult, and I
> still have family members in it. I would like to
> get a discussion going concerning this movement
> and its destructive teachings and abusive
> practices. If anyone is familiar with it, please
> post.
>
> Thank you



I wonder if KENT knew the can of worms he was opening?

Let’s not forget the origins of this group. ( please feel free to correct any errors. My memory ain’t what it used to be! ) It was meant to be the restoration of apostolic authority. Inherent in that is a lack of accountability. The only check on abuse in the beginning was created by relationships with other groups. Richard Riss wrote about these five groups that came out of the latter rain movement in his masters thesis. John Stevens’last contact with Bob Mumford whose teachings and organization also reflected submission to shepherding authority meant the beginning of an era when John was surrounded by people who only agreed with him. The finances and church structures also reflected this new testament model meaning local church corporations were not autonomous but responsive the the flow of authority - but the money flowed the other way. Also there was a deliberate decision to charge for the tapes. To pay five dollars in the 1970s for a cassette tape was outrageous. JOHN boasted that the church of the living word was the greatest purchaser of blank tapes in Southern California. That was a lot of money.

After John died, with the reorganization to Hargrave family ministries it seemed like everything was on steroids. The upward flow. Designated relationships. Authority with no accountability. As local churches folded their assets were sold and the money returned to the word for the world fund. Plus tithes plus special offerings for apostolic travel.

Unless the DNA changes there will be no substantive changes at all. And there are no signs of the DNA changing. The seeds of what we’re seeing now were there from the very beginning. I’m sure no one intended it to happen, but when the crystal forms and grows it follows the pattern set out by the basic molecular structure. That’s why “you will know them by their fruit.” The fruit is quite apparent now. It would seem the only reasonable response is to walk away.

Unfortunately, those who post in this forum give testimony to the fact that it’s difficult to leave this group without being damaged goods. There will be a whole lot of hurting going on for quite a while.

TMason - You know I was always a bit of a rebellious big sister. That's just the way I roll. Hahaha!

>
> I'm really not trying to sound all Disney or
> syrupy, but even though I am not interested in
> going to church, I'm still OK with being my
> brothers keeper. I mean, come on, its what we do,
> right?


Hey Marci...I remember you from San Diego and later Shiloh. I was too young to really get to know you, but I love what you said at the end of your post. "I'm still OK with being my brothers keeper!" In the end, that's what matters most, right? That as a people we care more about what happens to each other than what happens to the material stuff. Not saying that there shouldn't be some really deep investigation into that stuff, but in the end what matters most is us.

NOW is the time for full disclosure:

1) WHO will be overseeing the implementation of all the actions to be taken listed previously?

2) We need a comprehensive list of members under the TLW leadeship umbrella who are being officially REMOVED from all responsibilities and duties, including APCO, pastors, elders, etc. CHURCH by CHURCH.

3) We also want all the financials released for a full accounting.

Hi Kathy - I remember all of you. I'm sorry to hear of your dad's passing. I always loved them. I knew that was your brother posting from his first post. I was just telling Dave how, even as I read these, I still picture the faces of when you kids were young (well, especially your brother - you girls as young women).

Hope you are all well, and I'm so happy you are survivors. I also hope you have been reading the posts on Shalom's page. Lots of grieving, but lots of healing going on.

And, yes, I still can't walk away from caring for the friendships made over more than 40 years. I started going at 17 in 1971 and left in 2014. Its like I grew up with them. I have no doubts about my choice to leave. I will never regret walking away. I sincerely hope there will be a mass exodus soon.

P.S., I ran into a friend a couple years ago that told us her story about being at the mine with her brother and his wife - and their escape in the middle of the night!

that little red flag Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Kathy - I remember all of you. I'm sorry to
> hear of your dad's passing. I always loved them.
> I knew that was your brother posting from his
> first post. I was just telling Dave how, even as
> I read these, I still picture the faces of when
> you kids were young (well, especially your brother
> - you girls as young women).
>
> Hope you are all well, and I'm so happy you are
> survivors. I also hope you have been reading the
> posts on Shalom's page. Lots of grieving, but
> lots of healing going on.
>
> And, yes, I still can't walk away from caring for
> the friendships made over more than 40 years. I
> started going at 17 in 1971 and left in 2014. Its
> like I grew up with them. I have no doubts about
> my choice to leave. I will never regret walking
> away. I sincerely hope there will be a mass
> exodus soon.
>
> P.S., I ran into a friend a couple years ago that
> told us her story about being at the mine with
> her brother and his wife - and their escape in the
> middle of the night!


Hello Little Red Flag,
Glad you made it! My white hair and aged face wont look quite the same as it does in your mind. Do you recall the name of the person that deserted the group in the middle of the night?? I have tried to reach the Holders to no avail.
Anyhow, let me know your name, you can PM if you like.
Best to you and yours and good luck with the recovery.

dirtybrushes Wrote:
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> "In addition, we are reaching out to those
> negatively impacted by this behavior, to offer our
> apologies as well as counseling with outside
> professionals."
>
I haven't received any care packages with Organic Carrots or This Weeks.
I am sure the apology will include a big fat check and the title to a church property of my choosing right??
Yeah right! My abuse may be decades old but I remember like it was yesterday.
None of these current goings on will undo the pain caused by a homosexual pedophile and the organization that fostered him and others like him.
I am quite confident that hundreds of others have been abused and are out there now living with the shame and guilt while GH and team ride off into the sunset with the cash.

Follow the money folks. Its all "they" ever wanted (from you) and its all they care about now.