Onion – Please rest assured that I am not someone from the cult breathing down your neck. I did not mean to scare or intimidate you and I am deeply sorry for any fear or concern I may have caused you. We did not know each other. The California Bar Association website is open to the public. I looked you up simply out of curiosity to see what law school you went to and was shocked to see that you had been disbarred. I have been in the legal field for many years, and hold attorneys to very high standards. Trust and credibility are very important to me. This is your story to tell in whatever way you choose to. I appreciated your writing publicly that you are unable to give legal advice. That said, your efforts (and the efforts of others) to out sexual abuse in the cult are laudable.
This forum has become very lively of late!

Hi Everyone,

I have not been on for a long time, nearly a year. I needed to stop thinking about it. I also realized there is nothing I can do. And keep moving forward.

But I wanted to tell you and everyone here that something interesting is happening at CTLW.

My parents called me today to say that Gary Hargrave is wanting to changing things there. Apparently, there has been a revelation that there has been a lot of hurt and a lot of wrong things that have gone on. They want to have a 360 change (I think that's what they called it) and they are asking anyone that is willing to make contact either anonymously or openly and to let them know, either in email, letter or call, their story. What happened to you, why you left. They want to change and heal the past hurts to be able to move forward and not repeat the same mistakes.

I am in shock and in awe of how God answers prayers fully. I left the church 16 years ago. I went through some hell trying to find my way to a real relationship with God. I have been praying for a long time. I know many of you have walked away completely and found other avenues. I understand and respect your reasons. Now we have an opportunity to say our piece. I couldn't stop crying when the reality of what they were saying set in. My parents apologized to me and said they were so sorry for whatever happened to me. My stepmom said, that she doesn't know what happened but if she had known, she would have stopped it. I am overwhelmed with this revelation. I told them I have no problem talking about the things that happened but that I have kept it mostly to myself for not wanting to damage our relationship over something they are obviously passionate about. She said, There is nothing you can say that will damage our relationship! I can't believe what I am hearing! I am so happy that there is a glimmer of hope now!!

I am hopeful that some of you will find similar relief.

Apparently, they have put Rick & Lorena on administrative leave as well. Many people there said they didn't want to write a letter if R & L were going to read them!!!

WOW!!!

I hope some of you will be willing to write in and tell your story, even anonymously.

They said Amy Sayer is the connect person for this project. I don't have her email yet, but I will get it and post this ASAP.

~Anne

To Tell The Truth:

Hi! In my experience this is classic behavior from abusers. Some may call these recent actions by TLWF "love bombing".. (Google this term.) Regardless, I don't buy it! Not for one second! It sounds "nice".. but as all of us know healing doesn't happen overnight. IMO, the abusers display symptoms of severe personality disorders. As far as I know, there is no cure for this. In rare circumstances, some are able to manage their disorder with professional help. Nonetheless, I see this as nothing more than a toxic game. If you play with snakes... eventually, you will get bitten!

"The best predictor for future behavior is past behavior."

Rant over.

Go Hawks! :)

> My parents called me today to say that Gary Hargrave is wanting to changing
> things there.

Does he know it needs to start with him? That the law may get involved at some point?
This can not be just another one of the countless surface level changes that TLWF has made through the years, while promising major overhauls & accountability. It's my view TLWF has not earned the trust needed to get people (such as many in the forum) involved in what is most likely to be yet another con game of pretending to be open to change, while taking the information provided to plan the next move.
Here's a suggestion: work with the people that are presently in the fellowship. Avoid making contact with those who have left the fellowship. If things start changing on a deep level with those who remain, people who left will know. It's a slow process, no short cuts. Sorry about that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2018 04:44AM by changedagain.

howmidoing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I have not been on for a long time, nearly a year.
> I needed to stop thinking about it. I also
> realized there is nothing I can do. And keep
> moving forward.
>
> But I wanted to tell you and everyone here that
> something interesting is happening at CTLW.
>
> My parents called me today to say that Gary
> Hargrave is wanting to changing things there.
> Apparently, there has been a revelation that there
> has been a lot of hurt and a lot of wrong things
> that have gone on. They want to have a 360 change
> (I think that's what they called it) and they are
> asking anyone that is willing to make contact
> either anonymously or openly and to let them know,
> either in email, letter or call, their story. What
> happened to you, why you left. They want to change
> and heal the past hurts to be able to move forward
> and not repeat the same mistakes.
>
> I am in shock and in awe of how God answers
> prayers fully. I left the church 16 years ago. I
> went through some hell trying to find my way to a
> real relationship with God. I have been praying
> for a long time. I know many of you have walked
> away completely and found other avenues. I
> understand and respect your reasons. Now we have
> an opportunity to say our piece. I couldn't stop
> crying when the reality of what they were saying
> set in. My parents apologized to me and said they
> were so sorry for whatever happened to me. My
> stepmom said, that she doesn't know what happened
> but if she had known, she would have stopped it. I
> am overwhelmed with this revelation. I told them I
> have no problem talking about the things that
> happened but that I have kept it mostly to myself
> for not wanting to damage our relationship over
> something they are obviously passionate about. She
> said, There is nothing you can say that will
> damage our relationship! I can't believe what I am
> hearing! I am so happy that there is a glimmer of
> hope now!!
>
> I am hopeful that some of you will find similar
> relief.
>
> Apparently, they have put Rick & Lorena on
> administrative leave as well. Many people there
> said they didn't want to write a letter if R & L
> were going to read them!!!
>
> WOW!!!
>
> I hope some of you will be willing to write in and
> tell your story, even anonymously.
>
> They said Amy Sayer is the connect person for this
> project. I don't have her email yet, but I will
> get it and post this ASAP.
>
> ~Anne

I am sorry but I don't think you should get your hopes up. They have done this before--suggestion box, etc. Gary wants to lay it all off on Rick and others in leadership when he is just as culpable. Sure he is going to try and whitewash it. But has he taken any responsibility? Maybe he could share the millions he received from countless families with those families--ha! I won't hold my breath.

The church people will do what they are told and try to reach out--most of them are sincere. But this is not what it appears to be at all. Hargrave will lay it off on Rick and others in attempt to wash his hands of it all. There is a reason people are on this forum anonymously. This is an attempt to stop what is happening here. Mind you this forum goes back many years and factnet before this. So why was there no attempt to change back then and all along up until today? They were mindful of it and only want to cover it up and use the edict of forgiveness to yet again pull the wool over peoples eyes.

Gary and Marilyn and all the leadership backed Rick even when they knew he had done so much damage and they still let him be in a power position time and time again. They did not suddenly realize there have been a lot of hurts--that is putting it mildly--we are talking criminal--and they perpetrated it through their chain of command. They not only allowed the wrongdoing, and not just the sexual stuff--don't fall for it. Many parents have had children hurt---they, out of fear, said nothing, and if they did they got what was coming to them. Of this I am sure.

Hello I Woke Up - I'm a bit confused. Were you responding to my recent posts? Best to you!

It sounds as though she is responding to howmidoing.

Go Dodgers!

An interesting article on love bombing:

[www.inc.com]

It may explain why so many hurt people stayed.

To Tell The Truth: I was not intimidated and I was not afraid by your public post asking about disbarment. If anything, what led me to believe you are not for real on this forum is (1) You stated in your public post that you take these things (lawyer disbarment) very seriously and (2) In an earlier PM to me you said you were active in the church from early 70's to mid 1980's but didn't think we knew each other.

(1.) What any member of this forum "takes seriously" about another member's life, history, story, whatever - is irrelevant. I felt that remark by you indicated an arrogance that reminded me of many people still members in TLWF and certainly specific people I have a very low opinion of.

(2.) If you were active during 70 - 85, I don't know how you could say we wouldn't know each other. During that time I was involved in all church finances, tape editing, JRS' personal finances, and I spoke about business things in church a lot and even spoke on JRS & Marilyn's behalf many times. Since you know my name but I don't know your name, all I can say is that your comment lacks rational believability.

Everyone: I will not continue to beat this dead horse but, as most of us are, I am alert to potential trolling and it riles me up. No fear. No intimidation. Primarily disgust.

One last note: A friend was worried about me because he/she watches this forum and saw what he/she took to be a critical message aimed at me. He/she responded by going back through every message I have posted and said he/she couldn't figure out why anyone would want to make a public issue of my legal history when I have repeatedly and clearly stated that I am NOT an attorney anymore. He/she doesn't participate in the forum because he has loved ones that would shun him/her, but he/she knows TLWF inside and out. His/her opinion was the public message was written in a nasty tone and sounded like a mole for the church.

Okay Everybody - I will give it a rest now. Sorry for continuing to beat this poor dead horse. I have expected the credibility attack all along. I just expected it to be from someone with the balls to do it up front. Silly me.

Howmidoing: My heart breaks for you. I would hope your parents would be loving and protective of you no matter where you stood on the status of the TLWF churches and maybe they do. I am glad you felt comfort from them and I hope it continues.

For Gary to correct the problems with the church he would need to go back to 1983 and reverse every action that was taken to line someone's pockets, to shun people who knew too much, to tell lies about doing what JRS wanted, to recover all funds that went to fund little Ricky's playgrounds (party houses, bars at all the churches, studio (building and operating), Xmas truck, wiring in churches and homes for the purpose of listening in/spying, the list is very, very long.

In addition, the people who volunteered their time to work on little Ricky's toys should be reimbursed for lost wages.

The women who were groped, sexually abused, groomed, disrespected, subjected to heinous seduction tactics whether the tactics were successful or not -- they should be given a settlement that would make up for the years of damage done to them. The cost of therapy. The loss of enjoyment of life. And any other message by which to measure the years of life destroyed by a sociopath who earned money from the church stole money from the church (i.e. from peoples' offerings), used any materials, equipment or funds of the church he wanted to create his various Disneyland playgrounds, and again this list should be very, very long.

Add to Rick's list of horribles the failure of the church to train its ministers and teachers regarding the mandatory reporting requirements of California when abuse is shown in a child or suspected. I have heard COL doesn't train its teachers in this area. Schools, publi8c and private, usually have a training class for teachers about spotting and reporting abuse. COL and the other schools (Shiloh, OC, SD, etc.) just told people it wasn't that big a deal and to just move forward. WHAT??!!

Every person in a place of leadership must answer the questions: Why did you participate in this? How do you think it can be fixed? Don't you think you should step down?

Also - Administrative leave is less than a hand slap. It is a paid vacation. It has been done in the past and has always resulted in Rick being restored to his former position of influence and given continued access to money and people.

If you would like more information, please PM me and I will be happy to talk to you more.