kBOY Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is wonderful to see those who formerly believed
> that hiding alone in darkness was the only safe
> place, who now see a ray of hope on this forum and
> have the courage to step into the light.
>
> In the anthologies of religion there was always
> some personification of the 'great-deceiver', a
> name well deserved because of an impressive skill
> set. Far be it from us to escape the clutches of
> whatever version was being peddled in our hood.
>
> We are all members of a group that includes those
> beguiled by the dictators of politics, the wizards
> of Ponzi schemes, or the developers who push swamp
> land. We just happened to be taken in by a higher
> cause--the apostle to the Kingdom--a very
> convincing sales pitch indeed.
>
> Once we started down that rabbit hole we had to
> keep adjusting our eyes to the dark, and thereby
> developed an inability to tolerate much light. Our
> loss of vision cannot be blamed on us, but was
> simply the inevitable side effect of mistakenly
> believing we where heading out of darkness and not
> into it.
>
> There is no room for blame by any of us who made
> commitments under dubious pretenses, but there is
> room for congratulations in acknowledging that
> light lay in the opposite direction and deciding
> to head for it.
>
> End of the tunnel up ahead.


Very Good. I am smiling KBoy. Thank you for your awesome input.

In the light of recent discussions, I feel it is important that we clarify the use of certain terms to describe our experiences. This is because of the severity of the effects TLW has wreaked across our landscape, and desolated harvests that should have been fruitful.

I would like to start with victim: anyone who was adversely affected by the culture of TLW, either by an individual or corporately. That would pretty much include everyone at sometime or other.

It is one thing to be victimized, but quite another to identity as a victim. This is an important distinction and the most vital one pertaining to our healing. Our relationships here can become quite simple; those who no longer identify as victims are to lend a hand to those who still languish in victimhood--a neighborhood no one should live in.

The other concept is blame. This has been the cause of much confusion in many of the discussions.

Blaming ourselves for every misstep in life, large or small, just adds insult to injury. We are talking errors here, not sins. We made an error in signing up with TLW; we did not commit a sin.

Errors require correction (healing) while sins infer blame. (I think we have all been punished quite enough already.)

Everyone, of course, is free to blame themselves if they wish, but jettisoning that baggage makes moving forward a lot lighter, faster, and easier.

Up ahead: FREEDOM.

larry bobo:

I am sorry if this seems like a sales pitch, but pick up my book "Cults Inside Out" it explains everything in very fine detail. It includes analysis from biblical scholars and wide array of experts. It has more than 1,250 research footnotes and an 18 page bibliography.

The book can be downloaded through Kindle or bought as a paperback through Amazon.

I have also posted links on this thread to primary research that is available through the database.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2018 09:26PM by rrmoderator.

kBoy:

Don't you ever seriously read any research about cults, thought reform, coercive persuasion, influence techniques and cult recovery?

The links to research have been posted on this thread. Just point and click through.

Seems like you have not done that or you would know that many of your claims don't match the detailed research on the subject of cults and how people get in through predatory tricks and stay in through contrived devised psychological and emotional manipulative traps.

You seem intent upon blaming victims. They were "thirsty," they were somehow like "Eve." Your analogies are wrong and not helpful here.


The blame must be placed on the deliberately leader's deceptive and predatory manipulative practices. It's the leader tricking and trapping people and then implanting unreasonable fears about leaving.

Pleas stop blaming victims. Such posts don't help anybody and are in fact are harmful and counterproductive to individual recovery.

It's wrong to blame rape victims and its wrong to blame cult victims.


If you would take the time to seriously read the research you would know that.


BTW--It's hard to blame someone for "error" when they were deceived. The error is the lying, deception and manipulation that goes on in destructive cults, which effectively denies informed consent and short circuits critical thinking.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2018 10:32PM by rrmoderator.

Just to address Larry Bobo's post, it is important to remember that the TLW culture immediately established a hard line us-versus-them mentality, with 'us' being those doing God's work, and 'them' being everybody else. This, of course, was justified by a host of scriptures.

Not only were we continually pumped up about our lofty place in history, we were also reminded of the consequences for abandoning ship. Those who never joined would probably fair far worse.

The 'retention' dynamics of TLW were directly tied to the above, and closely parallel any abusive relationship reflecting the Stockholm syndrome. No matter what manner of abuse one is subjected to within, without poses even a greater danger. This is seen in countless marriages gone bad, where leaving what is known is more fearful than facing the unknown. This becomes all the more problematic when one has invested decades into building relationships that, by observation, would probably be sacrificed like those of others who had left.

This is powerful leverage in the hands of ones that wield the joystick--leave at your own peril.

puddington Wrote:

>
> This practice continues today in the Living Word.
> Think back to when you first came in. What were
> you looking for? What attracted you? And did
> that pay out for you? Did what you were looking
> for come about? Did you experience fulfillment?
> I certainly didn't. I experienced a lot of pain,
> self-loathing and misery.

And, you were blamed from the pulpit for being miserable. If you were truly open and submissive to the "living word," you would be rejoicing in your suffering. Because eventually...this suffering would allow you to rule and reign with Him. Lord it over others.
Remember all those warnings in the 90's about not being insecure ('insecurity is Satan in the Kingdom')? G & M would habitually treat people harshly, make sure they knew how they are 'missing the mark', and then judge them for not feeling accepted. Cruel, manipulative con artists.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2018 12:27AM by changedagain.

rrmoderator:

I am suspicious of your unilateral, authoritarian point of view. Surely there is some nuance and complexity in the variety of reasons for why people join cults to begin with. You're right that the cult leader is the true villain, but he wouldn't be a leader if he didn't have followers, and I think that trying to understand why people join cults beyond just "deceptive and predatory manipulative practices"––which are obviously in play, but do not themselves always provide the complete picture––is a wholly worthwhile endeavor, and it's somewhat cultish of you to suggest otherwise. Is the purpose of this forum to provide a platform for discussion in the effort of arriving at knowledge, understanding, and truth, or is it merely to evangelize and demand acquiescence to your supposedly expert and definitive perspective on the subject?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2018 12:52AM by walknntalkn.

Hmmmm. I am kind of confused! Aren't we all on the same page here? I get what Kboy is saying and also what the Moderator is saying (although I think you are kind of disrespectful to Kboy.) Our experiences in how we deal with life are all so different. There really isn't black and white (I wish there were). I do believe that we who were involved in TLWF were completely seduced to get into to it. But at the same time I feel like I need to take some accountability that it was my choice...in the beginning. I initially chose to be a part of it because it provided something for me. Ugh. I know also that I was very vulnerable so as the Moderator says I really didn't have a choice. What to do? I don't blame myself and I also have a lot of compassion and understanding for that 15 year old girl who made the decision, but I do have regret. It's not bad to have regret. I think it's just being honest. What I find the most heartbreaking is that I raised a child in it who DIDN"T have a choice...It breaks my heart.
I am so sad that fucking human beings can be so awful. But there are way more good one's than bad one's.

Something my counselor said to me that was helpful was that I was not responsible for that fact that I had been abused, but I was responsible for my recovery from that abuse. In the recovery process you do gain tools that help you avoid similar abuse in the future. Not only have I read “Cults Inside Out”, which I would highly recommend, but many others as well. Unfortunately, not everyone wants to do the research. I suspect I had read twenty books on cults before I really started to connect the dots and could finally admit to myself that I had been in a cult. It did not happen all at once for me – maybe others will have better luck.

I have close friends with decades of involvement in TLWF in leadership roles and they would not even consider looking at this website, much less researching cults. I suspect we have spent hundreds of hours in the last ten years discussing our involvement in TLWF. My poor wife, who was never in TLWF, just rolls her eyes whenever the subject comes up. They happen to believe that time will heal, but after almost twenty years, not much has changed for them. I love them deeply no matter what they choose to do for healing. I also know from personal experience that there is additional freedom with a little extra effort in the right direction, but that is an individual choice.

It is very sad when you think about the sexual abuse allegations in TLWF now coming to light. Every single adult, including the parents of the victims, knew that Rick was screwing underage girls and that the 2 of those he had affairs with and subsequently married, were underage when he took advantage of them--and when caught with his pants down--had to marry them to protect himself--I imagine that was orchestrated by Marilyn to avoid him going to prison.

Everyone in that fellowship knows. And yet---why didn't the parents or the clergy or teachers in the school--any adult with a conscience call the police? Why wasn't he arrested? Why is he not a registered sex offender? What kind of control over the mind does it take for something so heinous to be dismissed to the point of so many even good people--ignoring their conscience as if in a trance? It's scary.

The phenomenon is pointing to danger ahead for our children and grandchildren--there are many cults like this. If the IRS doesn't change its rules about reporting income for churches, it will continue because there are sick people like JRS and Gary and Marilyn Hargrave waiting to prey upon anyone who will listen.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2018 03:11PM by Cloudwatcher.