changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SouthGate Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If I'm offending or pissing anyone off with my
> > post please speak up. If anyone wants me to
> quit
> > posting on here, please let me know also because
> I
> > will stop. Maybe this does help some of you so
> I
> > don't want to be responsible for adding to your
> > pain.
>
>
> Nothing wrong with expressing yourself, even if
> most of us disagree with your take on John.
> However, if you make any kind of positive remark
> regarding Celebrity Apprentice and/or Arnold
> schwarzenegger, then yes, you will need to stop
> posting!


LOL! Sounds good as long as you don't have a problem with me bring up Moonshiners and Swamp People. :)

SouthGate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If I'm offending or pissing anyone off with my
> post please speak up. If anyone wants me to quit
> posting on here, please let me know also because I
> will stop. Maybe this does help some of you so I
> don't want to be responsible for adding to your
> pain.


You say you're not an apologist for John. Why are you posting here? Most others don't agree with your opinion, "he's getting a lot of blame for things that I don't think are true." That's not proof of anything. It's you going into denial mode. When confronted by those who see John negatively, you repeat the same mantra, "John was an imperfect vessel or John would admit he was an imperfect vessel." Hardly meaningful dialog. Makes you seem like a mindless ex-cult member. Plenty material about cults and cult leaders here to read. Hope you do that.

SouthGate – My point in bringing up Dr. Grant’s input was not to determine if worshipping Marilyn was idolatry or not – it clearly is to most Christians, except those who were actually doing it – and I was one of them. I thought his input might be helpful to those who are trying to understand John’s roots prior to the Walk. John had a hard time playing nice with the other boys. He had grandiose ideas of himself and was divisive towards others in the body of Christ – it was a problem even back then. As it bore more fruit later in his life, he became the solitary Door Opener Apostle to the kingdom and those that did not agree with him became Babylon. Not only did we spend endless hours interceding for a free Apostle, but also endless hours proclaiming judgment on those who did not see things the way we did. They needed to die – praise the Lord – perhaps something slightly different than the loving our enemies Jesus taught. After decades, what did we have to show for it? A big zero and lots of wounds – oh, and a dead John.

If you unpack the Door Opener idea a little, what he was really saying is Jesus’ work on the cross was incomplete without him – God can’t do this without me, I’m so important. Down through the centuries, many have given themselves titles or assigned special dates where the teachings of Jesus will suddenly start working. The one thing they all have in common is that it has never worked for any of them – the dates came and went e.g. 1979. The only real limitation on the words of Jesus is us putting them into practice. As soon as we do what he said, they work 100% of the time – no special date or other human needed.

Out of all the groups I’ve been involved with, TLWF was by far the most divisive. Factions and divisions - us and them thinking - are not evidence of the fruit of the Spirit, but evidence of a fleshly nature. I used to joke that if you wanted to see the fruit of the flesh, go to a Baptist deacon meeting – that was before elder’s meeting in TLWF. Again, I’m not saying that to be a put down to others – I was right in the middle of it and just as much to blame as anyone else. In hindsight though, it was not the kingdom of God some claimed it to be. Perhaps being around leaders now who love and serve each other has provided a contrast to what I experienced in the Baptist church or TLWF. Not everyone is trying to get you to send them money. If you are willing to seek them out, you can find them – fortunately, they are not trying to take the place of God in your life.

In every church I have attended, I have seen the fruit of the Spirit in some lives – more often in the pews than the pulpit. I don’t think you can take a broad brush stroke and say for instance that all Baptists are going to hell. The real evidence of being born again is the fruit of the Spirit. The ability to charismatically manipulate a large group of people has never been one of the fruits of the Spirit. It is interesting the response you get when you suggest John was just another man, as Jesus taught – “You have one teacher, the Christ, and you are all brothers”. It’s perceived as a put down of John. Could it be that we put some on pedestals in order to make ourselves look important because of our relationship with them? If they become just another man, then perhaps so are we, and as a result, we may just have to be personally responsible for our own walk with God.

NickleandDimed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SouthGate Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If I'm offending or pissing anyone off with my
> > post please speak up. If anyone wants me to
> quit
> > posting on here, please let me know also because
> I
> > will stop. Maybe this does help some of you so
> I
> > don't want to be responsible for adding to your
> > pain.
>
>
> You say you're not an apologist for John. Why are
> you posting here? Most others don't agree with
> your opinion, "he's getting a lot of blame for
> things that I don't think are true." That's not
> proof of anything. It's you going into denial
> mode. When confronted by those who see John
> negatively, you repeat the same mantra, "John was
> an imperfect vessel or John would admit he was an
> imperfect vessel." Hardly meaningful dialog. Makes
> you seem like a mindless ex-cult member. Plenty
> material about cults and cult leaders here to
> read. Hope you do that.


"Why are you posting here?"

That's the million dollar question. I really can't say for sure why I bother posting.

Larry -- I thought highly of some over others, but it was more of how I was treated by them. Some of the people on here think highly about some of the people that are no longer members and highly of some who are still members. I had some people treat me like crap and others that treated me well. Some of the ones that people say good things about on here didn't treat me so well.

I'm sure we all had different opinions about different things and about different people. We all probably left for different reasons. I noticed over the years for the most part, people would get picked off a few at a time. I think the one thing that fascinates me the most, is when I read a lot of the This Weeks and other literature is for the most part it was never followed. I had my head up my ... back then so I didn't know any difference.

dmw1970 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyone from the Fresno/Clovis Church?
>
> Diane


I wasn't from there but I went there once. It was probably right before they closed it down.

Celebration of Oneness through the Holy Spirit
By Silas Esteves March 2nd, 2017


Yesterday, following the conclusion of the School of Prophets, Gary Hargrave and Silas Esteves traveled to Rio de Janeiro to participate in the Rio de Água Viva (River of Living Waters) retreat at the SulAmérica Convention Center. Personally greeted at the parking entrance, Hargrave and Esteves were treated like VIPs as they were led inside and given backstage passes to the event.

. . . this 50th anniversary celebration of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the Catholic church was palpable as row after row of seats held the 7,500 attendees. With a 10-foot high stage and two big screens . . . with the 1,100 confessions and 1,200 conversions.

Arriving in the VIP waiting area, Hargrave and Esteves were greeted by Father Antonio José, whom along with Cardinal Dom Orani João Tempesta, invited them to speak at the event and participate in a special Mass that closed the weekend of celebration.

As time passed connecting with several priests, seminary students, and other evangelical pastors; soon it was time for Hargrave to speak. Throughout his ten-minute message about oneness in the Body of Christ and the special placing of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal in affecting all of Christianity, the crowd continually cried out cheers of approval to what Hargrave was saying. At the close of the message, Father Antonio José used Hargrave and Esteves as a beautiful example of evangelicals that continually pray for Pope Francis, saying that many in the Catholic church need to follow their example and continually pray for the pope.

Hargrave and Esteves were interviewed for Catholic radio and television, reaching out to over ten million believers in all of Brazil and the world, before being escorted to hold a private audience with Cardinal Dom Orani. As the three connected their hearts and drive to see oneness in the Body of Christ through the Holy Spirit, one could see that these three men of God were also dear friends.

Today’s event was a sign of the true oneness that is being realized in the Body of Christ. Blending Hargrave’s and Cardinal Dom Orani’s messages in each of our hearts, it is evident that the Kingdom of God is being established on the earth.

Did you see those photos of Gary in Brazil? I think he gave up hairspray for Lent.

kBOY Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Celebration of Oneness through the Holy Spirit
> By Silas Esteves March 2nd, 2017

> As time passed connecting with several priests,
> seminary students, and other evangelical pastors;
> soon it was time for Hargrave to speak. Throughout
> his ten-minute message about oneness in the Body
> of Christ and the special placing of the Catholic
> Charismatic Renewal in affecting all of
> Christianity, the crowd continually cried out
> cheers of approval to what Hargrave was saying.

Sounds like a great crowd!

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(I hope everyone reading this stat is cheering in approval)