changedagain Wrote:
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> Well, I just finished reading the New Testament
> again...and my main takeaway remains this:
> Obedience is not optional.
> Have a blessed day.


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Arrrggghh

HEADBANGER NEWS: Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah

"The Confession Of Your Faith"
August 28, 2016

[www.churchofthelivingword.com]

". . . our words can be either creative or destructive (depending upon which TLW shepherd had watch over you)."

"It is not enough that we stop voicing negativity (but that would be a wonderful start)."

"As those who bring forth God's kingdom to earth (no presumption there, with so much fulfillment already in evidence)."

"We need to open our mouths and speak, and keep on speaking (because we love the sound of our own voice?)."

"If we are honest (HONEST?!) about where we still struggle with unbelief (because little or nothing has come to fulfillment?)."

"We are surrounded by a climate of indifference (perhaps because what is believed is not the TRUTH), and it takes violence of spirit (breaking up into groups?) to counteract that passivity and negativity (from the abusive shepherding within TLW)."

In the past several months I’ve read three books that I would highly recommend to anyone involved in TLWF. They are: “Combating Cult Mind Control” by Steven Hassan, “Cults Inside Out” by Rick Alan Ross, and “Twisted Scriptures” by Mary Alice Chrnalogar. None of these books mention TLWF specifically, but they will open your eyes to the mechanics of mind control. My parents would send me information about TLWF that they were sure my critical thinking would analyze and then I would make an informed decision to leave the group. What they didn’t expect is that I had been programmed to respond to that information in a way that only made my commitment go deeper.

What did begin to bring understanding to the destructive nature of TLWF was to see obvious errors in other groups who were also practicing mind control and then to eventually connect the dots in my own group. In my case, information about other groups bypassed the defense mechanisms that had been installed to keep me in bondage to TLWF. I could see the destructive effects of mind control in other groups and then after time, come to a realization that those exact techniques were being used on me. The term “mind control” may seem at first like an exaggeration – until you begin to understand the mechanics and how they can work on anyone. Pick any of the books above, and don’t be surprised how angry it will make you when you realize the price you have personally paid for someone else wanting to play God.

I don’t believe any of us willingly chose to become a captive of a cult. The sinister side that is so shocking to discover is that the leadership understands the techniques they are using and the fact they are using them on you without your knowledge or consent. Anyone should have the freedom to believe what they want. On the other hand, it borders on criminal activity when a belief system is imposed on you without your knowledge and the goal is to make you their captive. If you are physically kidnapped, the kidnapper can be prosecuted. If you are mentally kidnapped – which can have consequences just as serious – the kidnapper goes unpunished and often undetected.

Another shocker was to discover that John knew he was applying these techniques from the very beginning. It’s easy to think Marilyn was the one that got him off track. He was so charismatic that he still remains a sacred cow to many. I know I personally followed Marilyn after John died because I thought that is what he would have wanted – not really because Marilyn made such a great apostolic fathering ministry. Maybe if I had been there to marry her in the ceremony after John died I would have had greater insight. It just seemed a bit weird to me at the time. I’ve talked to several that witnessed Gary and Marilyn’s relationship as John was dying and they felt it was inappropriate. They questioned whether John ever directed Gary to divorce his wife and marry Marilyn and felt it was something they conjured up on their own to continue control of TLWF.

I would suspect the level of charismatic control went down another notch when Marilyn died. From the little I’ve heard Gary preach, he is still getting by on what John taught, claiming now that he is the founder – like John did with the Latter Rain teaching. There is very little substance from Gary – even with his new degree - to start a spiritual movement on his own. I suspect it is why he is now misleading many by saying he is still talking to John and Marilyn in the cloud of witnesses, hoping to add some level of credibility to what otherwise would be a lot of fluff. What makes it so hollow is that he is not living what he is preaching – something very easy to see when you are outside of his control. I wonder how long it will be before he mentions channeling dead former leaders as the pathway to the kingdom on their website.

Larry,

Your recent posts have been so transparent and have really nailed what needs to be said about mind control. The good news is that these days there is so much awareness, support, and help available for members not only here but through counseling and therapy. The NT tells us to be careful and examine what church leaders teach so we're not led astray or spiritually depleted or abused. Being careful and checking things out is absolutely necessary and it has nothing to do with having a critical spirit. It's never too late to start examining everything that has been fruitless or seems a little weird, a little off, or too controlling or demanding. Go for it!

Speaking of the availability of help for members using vehicles such as counseling and therapy; I am reminded as an example of the wild creature who is rescued from someone's back yard. The wild creature was never intended to be subject to captivity or bondage. But now, the freed creature has no capacity to function in the wild, and further, the authorities that rescue the animal are acutely aware that releasing the creature into the wild would be tantamount to murder; that the poor sod has no expectation of survival if left to its own devices.

I know of a few like these in TLW. They would be lost and rudderless without the APCO to guide them. They are utterly dependent on someone else to make all their daily decisions for them. They will require and deserve our gentle attention and ministrations when/if the day comes that they are let loose from the misguided fleece machine of TLW.

Keeping our lamps full of oil, yes?

changedagain wrote: “Well, I just finished reading the New Testament again...and my main takeaway remains this: Obedience is not optional.”

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Sadly, you’re probably correct. The overall theme seems to be obedience. It’s pretty hard to live a normal life of freedom according to your own dictates when you're subjugated to a ‘book of rules’ written by God Himself.

On the Sabbath Day that Jesus and His disciples went strolling through the wheat fields, eating some of the grain, I always wondered if the night before Jesus meticulously combed through the book of rules to find a way to wiggle out of the requirements and justify His law breaking actions.

The Neanderthals may have had a tougher life than we do, but I do envy the fact that they didn’t have the daily hassle of conforming to the book of rules.

Since leaving the Walk, one of my goals has been to get free from the Bible itself. It contains some lofty and very wise concepts, but it can also be a psychological trap leading to oppression and insanity ----- IMO.

I’m open to opinions---------

PBXGUY:

Well stated, and spot on. We may all be able to remember our own exodus and how disorienting it was at first without wagging fingers forcing our way.

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FCSLC:

Kudos to the Neanderthals, who were probably spared the oppression of religion. To them we look for guidance . . .

If you still find value in the scriptures, here are the first few references in the Bible that address talking to the dead. I would be a little apprehensive if my leader was getting his directions from those who have died. Also, don’t forget how John received his school of the prophets teaching – by talking to "Elijah".

Leviticus 19:31 “Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God.” (NIV)

Leviticus 20:27 "Men and women among you who act as mediums or psychics must be put to death by stoning. They are guilty of a capital offense." (NLT)

Deuteronomy 18:10-13 “Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. You must be blameless before the LORD your God.” (NIV)

1 Chronicles 10:13-14 ”Saul died because he was unfaithful to the LORD; he did not keep the word of the LORD and even consulted a medium for guidance, and did not inquire of the LORD. So the LORD put him to death and turned the kingdom over to David son of Jesse.”

I personally spent a couple of years in professional counseling after leaving TLWF. I saw the counselor for one hour a week at a rate of $120/hr. – fortunately I had insurance that covered it, or I would have been unable to afford it. My only requirements were that the counselor had experience with those who been in a cult and that they were NOT a Christian – I thought TLWF was Christian, and as a result, was done with Christianity. I know better now.

It’s interesting now in hindsight, that if I had read Jesus’ words for myself, instead of listening to an altered version from someone with a personal agenda, I could have saved myself a lot of grief. My professional evaluation indicated I was a still an adolescent in a 40+ old body. Many cult leaders become mom and dad to their followers, prolonging or completely stopping the maturity process. I’ve said in previous posts that I matured more in the two years after leaving TLWF than in the previous twenty in TLWF, because I was finally making decisions for myself as an adult. It was scary at first – but so fruitful and rewarding. By the way, I did a way better job than “Christ in the flesh” ever did.

A lot of wonderful things began to happen when I got out of the bondage of TLWF mind control. Every area of life began to blossom as the restraint was lifted – my relationship with God, marriage, work, social relationships etc. – everything improved. The teaching that everyone who leaves is under satanic control or a Nephilim are simply lies to maintain control. You are not going to die under the judgments of God - you actually move into an arena where He finally has access to you. The other lie is that the reason things may get better is because Satan is no longer attacking you because you are no longer a threat to Him. Actually, the upward flow of TLWF is Satan’s kingdom, not God’s. God is into taking care of the least – not the greatest who want to fleece His people.

To be honest, it’s almost comical when the spell is broken and you see what you believed. Imagine telling someone at your work that if they allowed you to control every area of their lives, using a designated relationship to monitor their compliance, that you would give them immortality and they would rule the world. You could tell them you were the Door Opener Apostle so they would know you had the power to give them what you promised – even though you had to stay drunk to tolerate how poorly you were running your own life and how badly you had damaged your personal family relationships. Without mind control, nobody would believe it. In fact, they would probably feel sorry for how delusional you were.

FCSLC,

The thing that to this day still makes me angry about the LW is how they screwed everyone's thinking about obedience. John and his clones demanded strict obedience to themselves and their rules that was not required by scripture. They created their own standards and neglected to allow for forgiveness or grace in not meeting their standards. IMO their obedience model was based on works and unbiblical. We were not educated properly about the gospel message and if you are left with a bad taste in your mouth about the Bible, then you were robbed of the true message.

I think changedagain's comment was suggesting is obedience optional in the NT to go to heaven? Yes, of course, otherwise no one would get in. Think about it, if disobedience excludes one from the kingdom then only those who are never disobedient would get in. According to 1 John 1:8, 10 there is no believer alive who is completely obedient in his or her own walk.

kBoy, tsk...tsk...in one swoop to say all religion is bad neglects the good that also has been done. There's a church in my community that has constructed living facilities for the homeless, provided food, etc. They serve; there's been no blood letting.

Again this isn't the place to argue religion so I've stated my opinion and you have stated your opinions and now we can be respectful of the diversity and continue with the topic at hand. Whew!