changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Were those songs sung at the Shiloh siege in '79?

I meant 'Victory Siege' :)

I came across this "thought experiment" today, and decided to share it here. Since it is politically-oriented, I have no problem should the moderator decide to remove it.

Michael Shermer wrote:
"If Obama lost to Mitt Romney in 2012, and refused to acknowledge the election as legitimate, then spent months promoting on Twitter and Facebook that he won the election in a landslide, and that Romney and the Republicans stole the election, and then on the day that the electoral college votes were to be counted in Congress Obama held a mass rally near the Capitol and told a mob of Antifa hotheads to march down Pennsylvania Ave. and go to the Capitol and "be strong" with the "weak" Congressmen and senators and to "show strength" and that "our country will be destroyed and we're not going to stand for that" and that with Romney "we're stuck with a president who lost the election by a lot and we have to live with that for four more years" and "we're just not going to let that happen," and this was followed by an Antifa storming of the Capitol resulting in five dead, do you think Fox News and right-wing media would be claiming that it wasn't Obama's fault, that he had nothing to do with the violence, and that the biggest story of the week is that Twitter and Facebook kicked them off their platforms?"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2021 03:59AM by changedagain.

Well, this is delightful. And again, I have no problem with the moderator removing this post, since it is off-topic and (perhaps) political in nature. I'm sharing (below) the beginning of a WaPo article I read this morning:

By
Peter Jamison,
Carol D. Leonnig and
Paul Schwartzman
Jan. 14, 2021 at 10:30 a.m. PST

Many U.S. Secret Service agents have stood guard in Washington’s elite Kalorama neighborhood, home over the years to Cabinet secretaries and former presidents. Those agents have had to worry about death threats, secure perimeters and suspicious strangers. But with the arrival of Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner, they had a new worry: finding a toilet.

Instructed not to use any of the half-dozen bathrooms inside the couple’s house, the Secret Service detail assigned to President Trump’s daughter and son-in-law spent months searching for a reliable restroom to use on the job, according to neighbors and law enforcement officials. After resorting to a porta-potty, as well as bathrooms at the nearby home of former president Barack Obama and the not-so-nearby residence of Vice President Pence, the agents finally found a toilet to call their own.

But it came at a cost to U.S. taxpayers. Since September 2017, the federal government has been spending $3,000 a month — more than $100,000 to date — to rent a basement studio, with a bathroom, from a neighbor of the Kushner family.

A White House spokesperson denied that Trump and Kushner restricted agents from their 5,000-square-foot home, with its six bedrooms and 6.5 bathrooms, and asserted that it was the Secret Service’s decision not to allow the protective detail inside. That account is disputed by a law enforcement official familiar with the situation, who said the agents were kept out at the family’s request.

A spokeswoman for the Secret Service declined to comment, saying the agency “does not discuss the means, methods or resources utilized to carry out our protective mission.”

Posted by: Reepicheep
Date: December 02, 2019 07:35AM

My memories are blurring together. There was no balcony during the seventies and the elevator was from the nineties. As for the alternate entrance/exit, it was probably there so that G&M could enter and exit without rubbing shoulders with or feeling obligated to speak with the peons who paid for everything and did the work. They behaved very much as royalty. No dish room experience, rosebush duty, bathroom or laundry shifts for them. Their only purpose was to keep everyone desperate for a crumb of attention while beating them up with "the Word". (And raking in and spending the dough.)


Posted by: Onion
Date: October 02, 2019 11:19AM

I don't think Gary's ego has gotten reduced to the point that he would consider a Bible study in his home. After all, when church volunteers were working on the weekly yard duties at his mansion in Honolulu, they were not allowed to enter the house to use the bathroom. After hours of searching for weeds with a magnifying glass because the yard was already manicured beyond belief, the volunteers had to use an outhouse of sorts provided for "workers."

Gary Hargrave and Bruce Larson are continuing to increase their aggression in Israel and against the founder's family. I think Hargrave is still focused on a worldwide ministry with the help of his drones like Bruce Larson.


Posted by: paleface
Date: October 01, 2015 10:15AM

A lot of people do not want to leave TLW. It is their whole world. All their friends and sense of security is attached to this group. And maybe for some of the older members, it is best if they stay put. Hopefully TLW as they know it will outlive them.

And for many, it is sort of like long-time prisoners that decide they like it better in prison than on the outside. So much easier inside for them. They would miss that community if they left the prison.


Posted by: FCSLC
Date: October 01, 2015 11:05AM

paleface: Remember the movie "Shawshank Redemption." Andy moved on readily with his well thought out plan while Red was still needing permission just to go to the bathroom.

C H A N G E D


"Gary Hargrave and Bruce Larson are continuing to increase their aggression in Israel and against the founder's family. I think Hargrave is still focused on a worldwide ministry with the help of his drones like Bruce Larson."

From what little I heard about this situation, they basically orchestrated a coup which successfully usurped control of the Jerusalem Center away from Shlomo's family.

True to form, and definitely something to build a new world-wide 'misery' on.

Hi everyone,

No politics please.

This thread topic is "The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens.

Please stay on topic.

rrmoderator:
Please stay on topic.

Sorry about that--won't happen again. Hopefully, I'll quickly come to the place where I will have no inclination to comment on politics any time, any where.

A few posts from September 24-25 of 2018:

Posted by: puddington
Date: September 24, 2018 02:39AM

This request for feedback by TLWF from former members has my distrust alarms going off. While I certainly have plenty to write about, I doubt that I will send anything in. For three basic reasons:

1. I suspect they are merely collecting evidence to better prepare TLW to defend themselves legally. Why give them that advantage?

2. Past performance by TLW suggests that this request is not sincere and that nothing will change.

3. Amy Sayer is a Phyllis clone. I trust her about as far as I can throw a bus

Posted by: Road to Damascus
Date: September 23, 2018 03:39PM

I distrust any new day or promises to make it all better. I say that until Gary, Rick, and all those in power come forward and tell it all and not be restrictive communications it is all worthless words. That is hiding behind smoke. Why should I open up and write to them what they did. Years ago I did that and I was told we do not want to hear from you. And Never again will I trust what they say. Bandaids do not work, and I and all of us here are people deserving to believe that we are not a bunch of Plan B's or not worth anything but to be used, abused and rejected and tossed away like trash.

Posted by: I_woke_up
Date: September 24, 2018 07:50AM

Amy is a pretty tough lady. I grew up with her an my impression of her is and always has been she isn't one to take crap from others. I'm not sure why she has aligned herself with other leaders. (Especially those who don't want others crap on their calendars!) I wonder if she would still be in this organization if she wasn't one of the leaders?

Regarding reaching out to leadership... a couple of years ago, I would have been on board. I too, tend to focus on the good in others and reason away the negative. This all changed when I had a one on one encounter with a sociopath outside of the fellowship. FYI, sociopaths are the nicest people you will ever meet! That is until you say no to them. Confronting them is one of the worst things a person can do. In fact, it can be down right dangerous. They experience physical pain when they're confronted... it's so painful they'll do anything to make it go away. Sociopaths will not respond rationally/professionally. Therefore, I have chosen to write on this forum in hopes that I can help other members see the light.

I was in TLWF for close to four decades.

Posted by: kbyrne
Date: September 24, 2018 10:19AM

howmidoing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> My parents called me today to say that Gary
> Hargrave is wanting to changing things there.
> Apparently, there has been a revelation that there
> has been a lot of hurt and a lot of wrong things
> that have gone on. They want to have a 360 change
> (I think that's what they called it) and they are
> asking anyone that is willing to make contact
> either anonymously or openly and to let them know,
> either in email, letter or call, their story. What
> happened to you, why you left. They want to change
> and heal the past hurts to be able to move forward
> and not repeat the same mistakes.
>
> I do not doubt for a single second your genuine desire to see a reconciliation between members and past members. There are many in the church that I love and believe that their hearts have been in the right place.

My suggestion would be, if Gary is sincere, he knows the wrongs he has committed. He knows why people left. Why doesn't Gary just come clean and say, I know that I, or that Marilyn and I, or whoever, have done X, Y and Z, we were wrong? Trust is something that has to be earned.

Posted by: 40yearsin2016
Date: September 25, 2018 02:07PM

Ok I'll play...

but instead of filling in a questionnaire, Here's what I require for my healing.

Amy should, being charged the responsibility since "Gary doesn't want to get involved":

1 - Read this forum - all 689 pages
2 - Read Woodrow Nichols book - all of it.

Based on that research generate a list of questions to be read from the pulpit on Sunday AM. Give the church leadership one week to respond in writing.

Next, Amy should post a notice on the bulletin board in the lobby of each church encouraging current members affected by sexual abuse within the church to call local hotlines (numbers provided) as well as local legal authorities. Independent legal counsel should to be funded by "Hargrave Ministries"

oh, I'm not done.

Finally, in support of my healing, Amy should commission and independent forensic audit of "Hargrave Ministries". Document all assets. Identify historic sources of those assets. Identify any IRS gaps. Document sources of income for "Hargrave Ministries" for as many years as the documents support. Forensic audit should be published publicly, a link supplied on this forum would aide in my healing...

rrmoderator Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi everyone,
>
> No politics please.
>
> This thread topic is "The Living Word Fellowship,
> The Walk, John Robert Stevens.
>
> Please stay on topic.

Not trying to raise a ruckus with the moderator and I agree with your post but I will say this: that my experience with The Living Word Fellowship and some of the personalities therein gave me tremendous insight and background for understanding the character of the current - soon to be gone - US administration. That may be the only thing positive I got out of it. :-)

I've received word (FD group on FB) that TLW his selling all its Ca properties and relocating to Georgia. If this pans out, I'm certain it will be a relief to Ca. Frankly, I'm worried for Georgia.
Pray for Georgia!!

note: Anyone know whether any of the proceeds of the sale of Ca properties will go into Hargrave Ministries...supporting his worldwide ministry?
Curious.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2021 12:34AM by changedagain.