kBOY Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> O N I O N :
>
> Lest we forget that both G&M were complicit
> in orchestrating three major Rick Disney
> coverups/mop-ups/damage controls that occurred
> during multiple affairs/marriages--I lost count.

That is true. I guess that we are still expected to believe that we were imagining it. I am not a whimsical person, my imagination doesn't actually stretch that far.

kBOY wrote,
Lest we forget that both G&M were complicit in orchestrating three major Rick Disney coverups/mop-ups/damage controls that occurred during multiple affairs/marriages--I lost count.

I've lost count, too.

Lilith Wrote:
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That is true. I guess that we are still expected to believe that we were imagining it. I am not a whimsical person, my imagination doesn't actually stretch that far.

Repeat after me: COG-NI-TIVE DIS-SO-NANCE

Once you see the crazy, you can't unsee it.

Reep wrote:
Once you see the crazy, you can't unsee it.

True.

Describing the 'upward flow':

Posted by: larry bobo
Date: May 15, 2019 11:55AM

At the time of John’s death, the upward flow had already started. As Gary and Marilyn took control of the organization, the level of control and focus on them increased dramatically. There were a few members of the third generation that had referred to John as “Christ in the Flesh”, but to most, he was the “Door Opener Apostle” and Marilyn was "The Lamp of Israel". I believe in most local churches, Marilyn’s name was substituted for God’s in worship songs – while Gary was married to her. Many remember the service where leaders were asked to pledge their allegiance to and spiritually marry Marilyn - quite weird! You can’t have a higher position than to want to be worshiped as God. For Gary to try and distance himself from the hierarchy is ludicrous. He controls everything and yet seems to not want to take responsibility for anything.

Anyone who has ever served on a church corporation knows you served only as a figurehead. Gary and Marilyn made all the decisions. The last corporation I served on in Palmer Lake had in its Bylaws that if there was disagreement among the Board, the Apostolic Fathering Ministry – Gary and Marilyn – had the final say. You were basically on the corporation to do the legwork, but really had no say in anything of significance. The local church leadership reported to Apco weekly, and they in turn reported to Gary and Marilyn. I was removed several times from positions in the church for questioning things that have now come out in the open and everyone can see they needed to be questioned – e.g. the kingdom dawning in 1979, shepherding and designated relationships, false words from God, failed prophesies, and the cover up of sexual relationships between pastors and congregants – including John.

From September of 2018:

Posted by: Saw enough
Date: September 27, 2018 10:21PM

In December 1972 Brother Stevens disappeared for an entire day and a few days later he went to the Valley Church and claimed that he'd been caught up in the spirit and taken 7 years into the future where he saw the Kingdom. As he explained his vision and his sense of losing all track of time that day, some of the young prophets speculated about black holes and time warps in the spirit where time did not matter. That vision of the Kingdom became the basis for a lot of the preaching for the next 7 years.

Many people and churches dedicated their lives and their survival planning and their life decisions around that 7-year date and the revelation that John was the apostle to the Kingdom. Twenty years later a woman from the Valley church got word to Gary and Marilyn that she had been with John on that December 12th in 1972. A lot of people around the Living Word building gossiped about the story, but nobody said or perhaps knows if John actually had his vision that day or if he was just with someone not his wife for the day. Aimee McPherson once disappeared mysteriously and later claimed that she'd been kidnapped and taken to Mexico or somewhere -- it's not that uncommon for ministers to try to cover their tracks.

It's like a Mormon hearing that Joseph Smith hadn't really found magic tablets and translated a new version of the Bible for latter day saints. How do you say, okay maybe that didn't happen but the rest of our church is still the true church of the end time. Joseph Smith's vision was not confirmed by others and John's claims were not really confirmed by others -- he was the leader and knowing that he had a special insight into the Kingdom was a draw.

Nothing about this disclosure was mentioned to the churches -- other than a few veiled words about how John's real problem was disobedience -- and not giving himself enough to Marilyn. (Another warning for people to shape up and get with the program.) Gary warned cryptically that things might be coming down that would shake people's loyalty but it would only be proof that they never had a revelation.

One of Rick's escapades also surfaced sometime in the 90s but he was not the only thing that was wrong in the fellowship. Going back to the 70s there were dozens of accounts of financial and sexual abuse by the pastors of many of the large churches, along with mistreatment of the people. After Gary & Marilyn took over, there was still large scale psychological abuse and reckless shepherding that left a lot of casualties. Marilyn had anger issues and would often lash out violently at those she felt were violating her spirit or offending her. This was interpreted as how the Lord felt about those people, especially since she was being promoted as the Lord in the earth and there was no "God in the sky" or "God in your brain" that you could trust. Submission to her as Christ in the flesh was the order of the day.

For every young person who came forth as a talented and accomplished adult, there were many more who were cast aside or labeled or discarded. Amazingly, Gary Hargrave has continued to promote John's vision as the plumbline for the fellowship even after he knew the background. (He might know something that no one else knows.)

* * * T E E * T I M E * * *

An expat recently recounted how they assisted G&M to get reduced rates during their 'golf phase'--and was a much better player than both of them.  One cannot fault another for enjoying a little R&R from time to time, but it begs the question--just how much R&R did G&M need from their 'schedule', and better yet, what WAS their schedule?

If anyone has any insight, like say any of the ex-Blixers (Purples) as to what a day-in-the-life was like for these frauds, curious minds may want to know, seeing as how they definitely did not have OUR best interests in mind.

Anyone else who has glimpsed behind the curtain to witness what might have gone on with their 'busy schedule' of securing their wealth and power, please feel free to contribute.

Upward flow we g o . . . 

In Sept 2018 Saw Enough said:

"For every young person who came forth as a talented and accomplished adult, there were many more who were cast aside or labeled or discarded."

It was a curious thing, it happened quite often. You would see qualified, talented people, experts in their field told that they could not be involved with whatever their field of expertise was, cast aside and discredited in favor of hacks and charlatans. I remember when the wacky diet craze was on, the snake oil salesman came out of the woodwork with their supplements, "cleanses" and what I will loosely call "wellness tinctures". I wonder how many were harmed just so G&M's friends could make a buck, because I remember looking at that and knowing that was not how that worked that wasn't how any of it worked. We were victims of incompetent, reckless, cruel and greedy people that were out to wreck our minds, our families, our futures and our health.

Lilith wrote:
_________________

"...We were victims of incompetent, reckless, cruel and greedy people that were out to wreck our minds, our families, our futures and our health."

Yes! Pushing only certain people (whether within or from outside of the group) was a persistent practice. Were they getting kickbacks from the quacks they promoted who were not part of the church? Those within the church had to be serious koolaide drinkers in order to get the Apostolic Seale of Approval. Other more knowledgeable practitioners were kicked to the curb.

Reep wrote:
Those within the church had to be serious koolaide drinkers in order to get the Apostolic Seale of Approval. Other more knowledgeable practitioners were kicked to the curb.

I think most of us experienced the inverse of "resurrection life" during our years captive to the malpractice of TLWF leadership.

Posted by: paleface
Date: March 21, 2016 06:07AM

I have a confession. I lifted that phrase "old before your time" from an old CS&N song "You Don't Have To Cry". The line was something like this:

"You are living a reality
I left years ago it quite nearly killed me.

In the long run, it will make you cry.
Make you crazy and old before your time."

A warning to those considering supporting Hargrave's new ventures, certain to harm those involved.