kbyrne Wrote:
> It has been very liberating for
> me to go back, even though it's been umpteen
> years, and reconnecting with that person I was
> before the Walk. I feel like I'm shedding off
> layers and layers of crap ... don't know how else
> to say it.

That's great to hear, kbyrne!

kBOY Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And on another note . . .
>
> "Good News, Church: You're Dying"
>
> [johnpavlovitz.com]

Thanks for sharing this, kBoy.,

NickleandDimed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> larry bobo Wrote On 8/2/2013:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > "However, regarding the posts seeking info
> about
> > John. Was he a drinker? A womanizer? That's
> like
> > focusing on the debauchery of the prodigal son,
> > "Can you tell me more about those
> prostitutes?",
> > rather than on the forgiveness, grace, and love
> of
> > the father. John was a man whom God used just
> like
> > He has used anyone of us. Different calling,
> > different gifts, but the same Spirit. "
> >
> >
> > Great post! I realize vomiting may be part of
> the
> > healing process and perhaps identifying
> falsehoods
> > is helpful in coming to a better understanding
> of
> > the truth, but it's not something you want to
> make
> > a lifestyle of. Much of what I posted on
> Factnet
> > the first few years after leaving TLWF may have
> > been theraputic at the time, but they are not
> even
> > things I think about now, much less would post.
> > Whatever blessings came through John, came from
> > God - and God is still alive and well. God is
> the
> > focus - not John. Where we get ourselves into
> > trouble is allowing someone to come between us
> and
> > God. Designated relationships are nothing more
> > than an attempt to take the place of God in
> people
> > lives as well as provide a thinly veiled
> hierarchy
> > to control those still in the fellowship.
> >
> > If you think of the first of the Ten
> Commandments
> > - "You shall have no other gods before Me" as a
> > relationship instead of a law, He doesn't want
> > anything to come between you and Him because He
> is
> > jealous for you. The greatest commandment is
> like
> > it - "Love the Lord your God with all your
> heart
> > and with all your soul and with all your mind."
> > Only God can give a nature change - man can
> only
> > point to Him. John 1:6-9 says, "There came a
> > man who was sent from God; his name was John.
> He
> > came as a witness to testify concerning that
> > light, so that through him all men might
> believe.
> > He himself was not the light; he came only as a
> > witness to the light. The true light that
> gives
> > light to every man was coming into the world."
> >
> > Whatever errors John may have made, his human
> > nature was no different than ours. He loved
> God
> > and many of us lived in the overflow of that
> love.
> > He tried many times to get us to wait on the
> Lord
> > ourselves and honestly, most of us were just
> too
> > lazy - we preferred the spiritual welfare
> system.
> > True spirituality is much closer to good
> character
> > than an altered state of consciousness. John
> > never could impart a nature change as many
> > suggested, even though he may have helped open
> our
> > spirits. (Opening our spirits the way we were
> > taught in TLWF is closer entering the sheep pen
> by
> > another way as a thief and a robber, and it
> came
> > with much spiritual warfare that was totally
> > unnecessary if we were really walking in
> > obedience.) Many spiritual leaders in other
> > religions can alter your consciousness as well
> -
> > however, they are unable to change your heart
> so
> > you will follow Jesus' commands. They can see
> > auras but they can't keep their pants up - we
> had
> > a little of that in TLWF as well.
> >
> > Many have recognized there was a point where
> > John's focus shifted from God to Marilyn and
> the
> > whole direction of TLWF shifted. Instead of
> John
> > serving and equipping the body, the body
> reversed
> > directions and started the upward flow. God in
> > the sky was mocked in comparison to God in
> John.
> > A hierarchy of control took over that was much
> > more destructive than anything we had known in
> > "old order". Instead of God's spirit bringing
> > liberty, there was the oppression of drunken
> > shepherds who could not run their own lives,
> much
> > less anybody else's. If you questioned the
> whip
> > to your back you were deemed rebellous.
> Perhaps
> > the best lesson we can learn is to keep our
> focus
> > on the Lord and let Him complete His work in us
> -
> > the other task masters are not that much fun
> and
> > don't produce anything for all that work.

Wow! Larry actually said that? Sounded like some sound advice too me. Not trying to cause any conflict here, but I think Larry was trying to help.

kbyrne Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's taken me hours to catch up on all the posts.
> As always, it's enlightening.
>
> It's taken me several months after finding this
> forum to realize that leaving the Walk was never
> the issue for me. Feeling like I was leaving JRS
> was. I would cringe a little at posts that seem
> to be critical of him when I first read them.
> That's changed. It's been extremely hard for me
> to admit that I may have been deceived by this man
> that I literally worshiped.
>
> It's been helpful for me to go back in my mind to
> where I was at before I came into the Walk. I was
> 17 and it was during the "Jesus People" movement.
> We'd go to many churches. I remember Calvary
> Chapel Costa Mesa and meetings in a tent. Lonnie
> Frisbee often spoke. Kenneth Copeland used to
> preach at small churches or home meetings. I
> never felt the need or desire to worship any of
> these men or put them on a pedestal. That changed
> when I heard JRS, although I think it was a
> gradual change. It has been very liberating for
> me to go back, even though it's been umpteen
> years, and reconnecting with that person I was
> before the Walk. I feel like I'm shedding off
> layers and layers of crap ... don't know how else
> to say it.

"I would cringe a little at posts that seem
> to be critical of him when I first read them."

The only time I cringe is if someone is assuming something without knowing for sure or repeating something they heard. I'm glad you are doing a lot better. I still cringe at some things being said, but I don't go anymore myself because they seem to have gone in a completely different direction. I'm just glad I was taught never to worship man, so that was never my issue. I guess my biggest issue with myself is being critical of others, which I have a big tendency to do, when I've got a lot of problems myself.

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kBOY Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > And on another note . . .
> >
> > "Good News, Church: You're Dying"
> >
> >
> [johnpavlovitz.com]
>
> Thanks for sharing this, kBoy.,


Disclaimer: I haven't read much of John Pavlovitz. Other than what kBoy has posted. All I can say is. Boys and girls put on your BS sniffers. Now, can we stick to this forum's topic. Southgate I figured you would say that. About Bobo's post.

NickleandDimed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> changedagain Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > kBOY Wrote:
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > > And on another note . . .
> > >
> > > "Good News, Church: You're Dying"
> > >
> > >
> >
> [johnpavlovitz.com]
> >
> > Thanks for sharing this, kBoy.,
>
>
> Disclaimer: I haven't read much of John Pavlovitz.
> Other than what kBoy has posted. All I can say is.
> Boys and girls put on your BS sniffers. Now, can
> we stick to this forum's topic. Southgate I
> figured you would say that. About Bobo's post.

BS sniffer? Did I not stick up for you previously when I thought you were right? Why did you figure that I would say that about Bobo's post? Like I said, I thought he was trying to be helpful.

Do you want to be bitter for the rest of your life? That's an honest question I'm asking you. I'm not trying to be critical of you, but you don't make it easy.

Also interesting on Wikipedia page:

There was another "Living Word Fellowship" in California with shared counterculture beliefs like speaking in tongues and free worship, as well as communal living. Dr. Steven M. Tipton interviewed ex members of the church, led by a certain Bobbi Morris in SF, California. He wrote a book where he compared it to two other counterculture movements, one a Buddhist commune, and the other being EST. I found a copy on Google Books.It was definitely worth a read. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few crossovers between John's TLWF and Bobbi Morris' LWF.

According to Jeremiah Mountain's comments, Morris' LWF had more drugs, although that seems like it could be a tad bit subjective.


[books.google.com]

PS. Welcome, KByrne. I can definitely relate to your post. It absolutely feels like shedding layers of crap, well put! Reminds me of washing off crap after "volunteering" in a chicken coop around Shiloh. Later it was an emu coop! I heard it put really well the other day, "the hardest day of freedom is better than the best day inside a cult."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2018 07:56AM by GSchaeff.

SouthGate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: I haven't read much of John
> Pavlovitz.
> > Other than what kBoy has posted. All I can say
> is.
> > Boys and girls put on your BS sniffers. Now,
> can
> > we stick to this forum's topic. Southgate I
> > figured you would say that. About Bobo's post.
>
> BS sniffer? Did I not stick up for you previously
> when I thought you were right? Why did you figure
> that I would say that about Bobo's post? Like I
> said, I thought he was trying to be helpful.
>
> Do you want to be bitter for the rest of your
> life? That's an honest question I'm asking you.
> I'm not trying to be critical of you, but you
> don't make it easy.

Same could be said of you.
Put on your BS sniffer. Was in reference to the writings of John Pavlovitz.

NickleandDimed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Putting this old post out there. As a reminder. Stay on topic.

I didn't say "And offering your personal
> opinions about
> spirituality or religion was against the rules."
> ." The moderator said it.
>
> In reading all the posts. I found when
> conversations got off topic about personal
> opinions about spirituality or religion. It
> usually involved mocking and demeaning of
> Christianity. Not the LW. In one instance.
> Regarding political agendas and Christianity, the
> rrmoderator stepped in and ended the conversation.
> It was obvious. Feelings got hurt. In these off
> topic conversations about spirituality or
> religion, posters did not communicate respect for
> the spiritual or religious choices of their fellow
> posters. Something Rick Ross said we are do on the
> message board.
>