Changedagain...you are awfully bitter and smug in your assessment of the apostolic ministry of JRS. Even if he was a charismatic ego (whatever that psychologically entailed) he also was an authentic apostolic vessel of Christ's spirit. And I, for one, twice underwent a direct experience of it, and it was spiritually circumcising to my heart and full of tranformative grace. I'm truly saddened that your subjective assessment of the way and experience of the Walk is construed from such a dark, victimizing and negative perspective, as though your position and rationalized understanding, as advanced, is dispositive concerning the sum & substance of the movement. For me, it was immersion in a latter day outpouring of the Resurrection Spirit, one imparting a new being to my existence that liberated my consciousness and spiritual being from the restrictions & stultifying limitations of being dead in the without God. Doubtless our personal histories are divergent but I still "remember that we were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.” Eph. 2 God bless, brother...be well.

changeagain wrote:

> The risks were veiled. They were only revealed
> after a person became immersed into culture. Trust
> me...if from the outset you were told this
> movement had 'the Apostle to the Kingdom', there
> were Nephilim resisting his ministry (among them,
> his wife), we were to pray for their death (or the
> death of the spirit moving through them, a
> distinction many of us struggle with)asp)...and
> that our acceptance, in practice, depended upon
> our complete submission to the authority structure
> (the practice of 'divine order')...and that many
> of us would forgo our own financial security by
> giving to the 'upward flow"...(seek first to serve
> the apostle)...very few of us would have become involved.
>
> Your motivation may have been pure. But the
> motivation of those that used the labor and
> goodwill of the people was not. All the money
> that flowed into the accounts of ones like John
> was not put to the use of building the 'kingdom.'
> There was certainly a wide disparity between the
> finances and personal liberty of walk leadership
> and the worker bees that populated the
> organization.

Well said, changedagain.

acesandates Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Even if he [JRS] was a charismatic ego (whatever that
> psychologically entailed) he also was an
> authentic apostolic vessel of Christ's spirit.

Acesandates, with all due respect, what is your evidence of JRS being "an authentic vessel of Christ's spirit"? It seems that you used very subjective measures, personal feelings and experiences. What objective proof did you see from his ministry to convince you that he was either a modern day apostle or a minister of Christ's Spirit?

> For me, it was immersion in a latter day
> outpouring of the Resurrection Spirit, one
> imparting a new being to my existence that
> liberated my consciousness....

Glad that you still have such great feelimgs and memories about your experiences from fifty years ago, acesandates. It doesn't seem that you stuck it out long enough to see all the bad fruit that came out of the TLWF movement founded by John Robert Stevens in 1951. There were many destroyed lives, ruined finances, and people so forever frightened of becoming involved in such an all-consuming group that they cannot even pray or open a Bible, let alone walk into a church. Did you receive a resurrection body from your experienes with the "Resurrection Spirit"? Did John?

Have to reply to acesandates.
John Robert Stevens was deceived and was a false prophet.
I was deceived and thought I was a prophet. We were all deceived and living a lie. >>>>>>>
Fond memories of the good times do not change the facts.

acesandates Wrote:

> God bless, brother...be well.

Thanks

I received a new being and the kingdom of God via the Lordship and faithfulness of Jesus the Christ. Did the Walk do a number on the psychology of my being? Probably, but I had a decent education and there was plenty of literature out there, especially the historical materials, to otherwise develop and fortify a critical appreciation of God's plan and the Messianic ministry of Jesus and the apostles.

From what i recall, JRS and RD were teaching the Lordship of Jesus Christ. This was not easy and it took me a long time to understand the judgment of God and acceptance of divine Providence/Rule.

The evidence, as i cited, evidence i should add that is universally recognized, is my life and the progressive transformation of my day-to-day existence --- that has never ceased. An ever deepening participation in resurrection life and new being. New creation, a renewed mind and, most of all, a new heart. To say nothing of keeping my young butt humble while I continued to pursue & seek the truth of God. And like Jacob's wrestling with the angel throughout the night, a long period of hard nights of the soul, I gained some very hard insight about my pursuit of the truth and God. Thankfully, God remained faithful to his word and promise.

Again, I am sorry for your losses. Still, we all lost something, some more than others in attempting to come to terms with the Lordship of Jesus the Christ. The literature on Job helped me quite a bit in negotiating the eye-of-that-needle and other conflicts and straights. Even today there are some excellent works on Job. Check out Stephen Mitchell, for one. Is it going to satisfy the injustice you claim to have suffered? No. What it will do, though, is improve your perspective. Indeed, as prophesied, over the past twenty (20) years there has been an enormous amount of solid literature published, and explosion really, on the Books of the Bible and history of God and Israel, to say nothing of the insightful exegetical materials.

That you believe you were deceived only means that you were a part of the socio-religious fabric of life in the United States in the last quarter of the 20th century. Welcome to your life. Everybody wants to rule the world. I'm wondering how much of your approach to the prophecies over you -- victimized you? I, too, had prophetic words spoken over me, most of which I did not comprehend and perhaps still don't. Still, I learned early that the Spirit of God moves very discreetly and in a host of mysterious, acausally synchronistic ways - to borrow a Jungian term. Augustine, Anselm and Luther went further, declaring the pattern in God's manner of addressing issues of soteriology and theodicy was that of "Deus absconditus, sub contrario." Roughly translated, God, hidden in the form of his opposite. I, for one, hung that concept around my neck.

Lastly, in my experience and belief, I do not believe JRS was a false prophet or false ministry, money and property issues be damned. Because what i experienced, beginning in the early 70s in San Diego, Anaheim, Southgate, Sepulveda was the return of the apostolic anointing. Those churches were solidly packed, and the presence of the Spirit was rich, especially during the Feasts. For me, it was a goddamn joy and I'm thankful that its spirit went deep into me. Did I have to work my out of and reconcile my rational faculty with the Living Word, and find a way to generate and sustain critical distance, psychologically speaking -- yes, i did. But again, there was a wonderful legacy of rich literature to consult. All it took was staying with it and work.

I recall JRS talking about some of the pitfalls in walking with God. It reminded him of a folklore anecdote about the two frogs that fell into a vat of butter milk. Both frogs had to churn the liquid (akin to treading water but more productive) to stay abreast of drowning. When morning came, and the milkmaid gripped the wooden pump handle to pulled it up with the vat lid, there was a frog sitting on a cake of solid butter. The frog burped.

May the Spirit of Christ bless your heart and heal you.

Asshat wrote the frog burped.

Acesandates wrote.. the frog burped. Sums up the attempt at tlw apologetics.