Having internalized I was a complete idiot. For letting the wool be pulled over my eyes. Sacrificing till it hurt for the leadership. I was young. Not sensible. Naïve. I like your post, Invisible, and clarifying about the ball room gown.

I knew a couple who left with nothing. In their 40's. He went back to college for a degree. She took a job. Supported them on a shoe string. They were use to that. Took them a while. To find financial stability. Not everyone was able to do that.

* * * * * THIS JUST IN * * * * *


"We Celebrate The Passover Of The Unworthy"
By Silas Esteves April 26th, 2017

[www.churchofthelivingwordniteroi.org]

"The second Passover is the judgment of the gods that enslave the sons and make them feel put down and unworthy. We have gods in our lives that convince us that we are unworthy."

(D u h h h . . . .)

- - - - -

"Passover — The Authority To Judge Spirits"
By Silas Esteves April 26th, 2017

[www.churchofthelivingwordniteroi.org]

"Today we were able to discern some of the spirits that torment us; spirits that put us down, cause confusion in communication, and promote deception and fear."

(Is TLW leadership finally discerning themselves?)

kBOY Wrote:

> "Passover — The Authority To Judge
> Spirits"
> By Silas Esteves April 26th, 2017
>
> [www.churchofthelivingwordniteroi.org]
> 4/passover-authority-judge-spirits/
>
> "Today we were able to discern some of the spirits
> that torment us; spirits that put us down, cause
> confusion in communication, and promote deception
> and fear."
>
> (Is TLW leadership finally discerning
> themselves?)

I was hoping this day would come when the leadership acknowledged what they have been doing to the people. Finally!

NickleandDimed Wrote:

> I knew a couple who left with nothing. In their
> 40's. He went back to college for a degree. She
> took a job. Supported them on a shoe string. They
> were use to that. Took them a while. To find
> financial stability. Not everyone was able to do
> that.
This could be a description of my wife and I...except the going back to college part. I estimate that in the time spent in TLWF, our tithes/offerings/free labor to the Kingdom hovered around the $100,000 mark. I'm sure this pales in comparison to many.
Fortunately, our kids were wiser. Both graduated from good colleges, and are doing fine.

Just 'voluntary' labor alone I average 2-3 days per month over 20 years. And we were consistent tithers...so the above figure is actually a low estimate.
Damn it--I would be ready to march if my knees weren't giving me trouble!

kbyrne Wrote:
>
Martha claims, 'My husband has total control of the
> church and its funds, and total access to all
> church finances. He is, in essence, the church
> himself.'"
>
> Gee, I wish I would have known this when I working
> year after year in Shiloh for $80 a month. I might
> have asked for a raise!

Wow--$80/month is not enough to money to even buy a ball gown for the wife. I would not have worked full-time at Shiloh for anything less than $95/month. Not saying I'm better than you--don't take it like that.

Invisible-I appreciate your 4/29/17 post. I always feel less angry after reading your insights and the way you see things that happened. Like you I had nothing when I joined and left with nothing. Although after I left my circumstances changed so that I didn't have to worry about money. Maybe that's why all the hours I gave and racking up a credit card debt to survive doesn't chap my hide (luv that phrase FCSLC). What I still struggle with is the betrayal of trust by so called men of God. I too was naïve in entrusting my self to them. Betrayal ran deep in the Living Word culture. The lust for ministry and entitlement not only caused ministries to betray one another and the members; families members also betrayed one another other. It really wasn't a healthy church environment and still isn't.

kbyrne- I've been thinking about your comment regarding soul searching and doing your own research. What I have tried to do and am not always successful at is separating JRS's teaching from JRS the man. Like a Berean Jew, I've been very harsh in seeing if his teaching line up with scripture. It doesn't and I have no apologies for examining his teachings. Where I have found Invisible's post helpful is in seeing JRS's humanity and being less harsh and more forgiving of him and his weaknesses. I hope you will continue to share your thoughts.

Several have mentioned the difficulty they have experienced in trying to find another church family after leaving TLWF. Many of us have carried with us the haunting words of John that once we tasted of John’s version of the Kingdom, nothing else would ever satisfy us. We would be ruined for anything else. I realize that I may be in a small minority, but that is simply not true. I’ve found a wonderful church family that is much healthier than anything I ever experienced in TLWF. It certainly is not limited to one church either.

I’ve been attending my local church for 17 years and have genuine relationships with the leadership – the honeymoon is long over. I use the word “leadership” loosely – they are looking for places to serve, not be served. Through my church, I have been connected to many other churches of many denominations – something that would never have happened in the time I attended TLWF. For example, 40 churches in Colorado Springs just banded together and gave the local homeless shelter $216,000 over Easter. Jesus separated the sheep from the goats by how they fed and clothed the least – something I was taught to be cynical of in TLWF. I was told other churches were Babylon and now Gary is connecting with the very church John used as an example of Babylon. The one thing a counterfeiter does not want you to have is something true that exposes that you are fraud. “Didn’t we prophesy in your name? Depart from me, I never knew you.”

A few months back, the discussion on this thread addressed mind control. I would suggest the thinking that nothing can take the place of John is a programmed response. Spiritual abuse is a complicated thing that is very difficult to unravel without professional help. An important point to understand about cults is that the leadership takes the place that only God should fill and overrides your critical thinking. If you are looking for a person or system to take the place of God, your wounds will be a red flag that will not allow you to go down that road again - nor should you. I know there are exceptions and some people pursue ever crazier things. However, most will not even have anything to do with God – myself included – after such an experience, and there wasn’t much of the true God in the first place.

Part of my healing was to figure out where I personally got off track. – not focus so much on the leadership of the group I was in. Granted, there is a ton of manipulation by leaders that we were completely oblivious to – especially in our teens and twenties when the hook was set for most of us. I personally had no visions of grandeur of ruling the world as a super son. I did love God and want His will for my life, and for the longest time had difficulty understanding how He could allow this to happen to me. I knew in the depths of my heart that I had been sincere – often more than those I was following.

The thing I kept sensing the Spirit speaking to me was that I had not obeyed what Jesus had taught. When I started digging below the surface and applying what Jesus had said, my life dramatically changed. I would suggest that the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of John do not match. Many have sited discrepancies, but perhaps that is a personal discovery for the individual. Several have mentioned breakthroughs into the Kingdom, but I would suggest the Kingdom is functional right now if you do what He says. Many who have died before us have walked in its power without the passing of a certain date.

I needed to go back and rediscover my first love – which had nothing to do with any human. I would suggest that when He is first, we can relate to anyone – inside or out of the church. Perfect humans do not exist – a perfect God does. A perfect or complete church does not exist without each one of us. I thought it might be encouraging to share a worship video from my local church and for you to think back on your teens and twenties. Remembering your first love can be a wonderful thing. [www.youtube.com]
Another oldie, but goody: [www.youtube.com]

Larry you wrote:

I’ve been attending my local church for 17 years and have genuine relationships with the leadership – the honeymoon is long over. I use the word “leadership” loosely – they are looking for places to serve, not be served. Through my church, I have been connected to many other churches of many denominations – something that would never have happened in the time I attended TLWF. For example, 40 churches in Colorado Springs just banded together and gave the local homeless shelter $216,000 over Easter. Jesus separated the sheep from the goats by how they fed and clothed the least
-----------------------


Here's something to think about.

About the goats and the sheep. I noticed something in reading this Scripture that changed how I apply it - in my thinking.

I do not think It is written in such a way - to be able to be used, to be applied to individual people or to churches - It is the nations that are gathered before Him and " He " separates the nations from one another - as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

( Matthew 25:32
All the nations will be gathered before Him and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.)

I also noticed the nations who were feeding Him and clothing Him - do not know when they are doing so - for these ask, Lord , when did we feed you ? ( paraphrased.)

So what I had thought about this Scripture when I realized it was talking about what Jesus would do and say to the nations and what the nations would say to Him - this changed my thinking about how it applies.

I believe Jesus Himself, is the only one who can rightfully apply it.

I'm sorry Larry, but I don't appreciate being preached at. I know you and many others believe in Jesus and attend church regularly. I tried many, many churches after I left the Walk and kept looking for the same type of worship I was used to. I loved, loved worship. I loved, loved Jesus and still do. I would never ever say anything against Him. To me, though, the worship in this U-tube video is simply a sanitized version of worship in the Walk - being in the flow (or not), feeling the "anointing" in my hands, discerning the Spirit, prophesying and waiting for the apostle to speak. It's not all about Jesus and Christianity any more for me. There are too many similarities to the Walk. So many years have gone by and I'm just trying to live my life in a healthy way. It took a long time to get where I am now. I try to practice loving-kindness towards myself and others. Meditation is important to me, and that simply means stopping my thinking long enough to catch up with my own breathing instead of ignoring it and myself. I believe that other traditions have much to teach us. For me, the "other tradition" has meant learning about Buddhism and its practice of non-judgment. I saw so much judgment in the Walk, and have no desire to attend church and participate in worship services. It's all too similar and I don't want to do that anymore.