Thanks kBOY and Larry for sharing your point of view.

AD-the Bible totally resonates with me too. Recently, I ran across a list of scientists and mathematicians who signed a document stating they believed the Torah was the inspired word of GOD. That kind of blew me away. If I can find it, I'll share it.

I don't have any Living Word tapes or materials from them at all, so I have to just use my memory to think back, but I think the vast majority of the teachings in the church came from one apostle, Paul. Of course, Paul did write the majority of the New Testament, in fact the book of Acts seems to be about Paul after the church got is't start. Paul was on his own for many years before he ever went to see the rest of the apostles. I know that Paul did like to talk, he even talked till a man fell asleep and fell out of a window.

I don't see quite the same flavor in the epistles by the other apostles. At the moment, without opening a bible, I can't think of anybody else laying down a bunch of standards, like women keeping quiet in church, or it being a shame for women to cut their hair, in fact, I think lots of the ideas in more mainstream cults come from a twist here and there on his writings.

When JRS was not talking about Paul he seemed to be talking about the wilderness experiences, of the rebellion causing God to wipe out so many in the desert. I don't know if I am making a point here, or heading for anything, but it I just started noticing this.

I don't want to come across as somebody with any major opinions as to what others should do, but for me, as I read the bible without the benefit of having it explained by an apostolic ministry, as John said you had to have, to understand it, I am seeing a lot of truth that I could not notice till I was clear for thirty years.

John hinting that a regular person could not understand the bible without the apostle's (*his) input sounds a little like the dark ages when the popes and bishops kept the bible away from the common man. In fact, JRS's choice of bible was partly interpreted from a catholic perspective, I can't remember now, the NASB seems like it came from a catholic vulgate something, not the same manuscripts as the King James. There is a huge chunk of at least one of the chapters left out of the NASB. But that is really not a discussion from here. My point is the it seems to me that the Living Word is not as well rounded as it was represented to be. It seems to come mostly from the view of Paul. And I do know that I am hitting on a lot of scripture that points to Christ instead of Paul and glorifies God instead of the apostles and prophets. I do know that all of those apostles in the early church would not at all accept anybody making an idol out of them.

I made a mistake, that was not a Latin vulgate, it was two translations that came from the Vatican...Maybe you could pull this up and see what I mean. This was written by one of the guys that worked on the NASB translation. Now this may or may not be the same version that we used back thirty years ago, they change these bibles all the time. But type in the line below and google it.

Bible translator says, 'I'm in trouble with the Lord.

Thank you, everyone, for your recent contributions.

I realize this forum is not a venue for arguing the merits of any specific ideology, but primarily for highlighting abuses relating to such. Not only were we reminded in TLW of the consequences of our own ‘Holy Jim Canyon’ experience, which set the tone for the entire culture (and why it still has a subliminal hold on the faithful), but we were regularly warned of the dangers in pursuing any seminary education for fear we would lose our faith in the process.

One of my first endeavors following my exit was to engage in my own early church history and biblical scholarship studies, primarily to understand why what I had believed for so long now felt so badly to miss the mark. Not only was it as rude of an awakening as my exit, but it did much to explain why Christianity has racked up such a high body count for the last 2000+ years. Where LOVE fosters no harm, religion is infamous for it.

It is interesting to note that Paul has surfaced in recent discussions. There is a segment within Christianity that firmly believes Paul completely hijacked the teachings of Jesus, and established an ideology that barely reflects the tone of the message. As A.D. pointed out, the epistles make issues of things Jesus never addressed--something that should give cause to pause.

The most foundational tenet in the official establishment of Christianity in 325 AD was the ‘infallibility of the scriptures’, a crime punishable by death if you were ever caught with any ‘unauthorized’ texts, and, was the reason why many cherished documents were buried. That has a suspiciously familiar tone to TLW, except this time, it would not be the Romans who would kill us, but the ‘loving lord’ himself.

For those who earnestly want to follow what Jesus actually taught, and not swallow hook, line and sinker the entire baggage of Christianity, I encourage you to do your own homework (against the advice of JRS) and discover that the GOSPEL of LOVE bears little or no resemblance to the trainwreck Christianity has become.

I know many may find this hard to accept, but the Bible did not float down out of the sky shrink-wrapped with a TLW bookcover already in place. Questioning the ‘doctrine of infallibility’ and the GOSPEL of LOVE are not the same thing.

I think one of the biggest causes of shuttle explosions and train wrecks is that people have a tendency look for someone that they would like to be the perfect guru and set that one up as the one and only fountain of wisdom. When they do find that one that they would like to be the oracle because they like something about him, or her, the tone of voice, the way the pause as the hiss on the end of words that end with sssssss.
The way they use their facial expression. Something about them just catches their attention and after that person Is nominated as the source, they just believe what they say, EVERYTHING they say. They would rather pay them their money than do the work themselves of digging for the truth. It’s called laziness. There are lots of people out there that are more than willing to cash in on your laziness.

But the people that post on this forum have been sucked in by a guru or two and they have developed over the years a hunger for the truth that is absent in their youth. They don’t value looks and sounds and great pronunciation, deep booming voices that sound so authoritarian. They value the truth for truth’s sake. Once you decide to seek the truth, you will find the truth.

There is one Father and there is truly one Son. God is a jealous God and His Spirit will not hang with you if you are not seeking Him and only Him. God will let you find what you seek, He will let you have “John’s spirit,” and you can be one of “Marilyn’s little people” but you will not ever grow in that atmosphere. You might get a title if you hold your mouth right, but you still won’t have any maturity. You still will not have any depth as long as you stay there. You never know how little you actually know until you are out from under that illusion.

lily rose. There was a Susie Loebeck (?) from LA who spent some time in Salt Lake City. Is this the same person as Susie (nee Hoctor) Pugh?

Thank You.

FCSLC:

Susie Loebeck ended up marrying a guy named Bob Taylor, who may have been a friend of Larry Cotton. Do not know what became of them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2016 03:01AM by kBOY.

Thank You kBOY.

kBOY. There is a book titled “The Gospel of Love” by Michael V Bright. Any connection? The reviews remind me of Joseph Campbell’s, “The Masks of God” series as well as “Who Wrote the Bible” by Richard Elliott Friedman and the theories of an ancient perennial philosophy (love God & your neighbor) surfacing from time to time in human consciousness throughout the religions of the world.

I like this forum because nobody gets labeled a Nephilim. Open discussion from non-paid participants with no agenda gives the truth a better chance. I really hope no point of view ever gets silenced or the poster gets offended by differing opinions on this forum.

2016. Wow. I'll be turning 66. They say, "Once you're over the hill, you begin to pick up speed!!"

kBOY said,” One of my first endeavors following my exit was to engage in my own early church history and biblical scholarship studies, primarily to understand why what I had believed for so long now felt so badly to miss the mark. Not only was it as rude of an awakening as my exit, but it did much to explain why Christianity has racked up such a high body count for the last 2000+ years. Where LOVE fosters no harm, religion is infamous for it.”

I took similar steps, for the same reasons as kBOY and it sounds like Apostle Dog is on a similar trail. Jesus promised that if we would seek, and keep seeking, we would find. The eye opener for me was to come to grips with the fact that many of the teachings of TLWF were exactly opposite to what Jesus had taught. While TLWF is concerned with the “upward flow”, Jesus is concerned with how we treat “the least of these my brothers”. There are many more examples – perhaps they are hidden from the casual seeker for a reason. What is amazing to find is how they are hidden in plain sight – you just have to be willing to obey and put them into action.

I’ve come to appreciate the safety of Jesus’ words. It’s Paul’s words that tend to get distorted – one layer out from the source. Jesus said to call no man leader, teacher or father and yet Paul established all three. Jesus did not seem to have a problem with teaching – he sent his disciples out to teach. The problem was setting up a position of teacher where you became a substitute for God. TLWF is a classic example of what not to do.

Even Paul said of himself, “ For it seems to me that God has put us apostles on display at the end of the procession, like those condemned to die in the arena. We have been made a spectacle to the whole universe, to angels as well as to human beings. We are fools for Christ, but you are so wise in Christ! We are weak, but you are strong! You are honored, we are dishonored! To this very hour we go hungry and thirsty, we are in rags, we are brutally treated, we are homeless. We work hard with our own hands. When we are cursed, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it; when we are slandered, we answer kindly. We have become the scum of the earth, the garbage of the world—right up to this moment.” That doesn’t sound like the rock stars claiming to be apostles today. He was also concerned about the divisions in the church that they would follow him or Apollos. So much for being John's sons - how about God's sons? And most of all, if you had every gift functioning but did not have love, you had nothing.

FCSLC:

I am not familiar with the author or the book, but a brief survey on Amazon reveals just one more book in a fertile landscape that most Christians are completely unaware of, and something that causes a great disturbance for most fundamentalists. It was not until after my exit did I realize there was such a countercurrent within Christianity to recapture its heart.

I am in full agreement with the openness and transparency of this forum, something unfortunately missing throughout TLW culture.

Also, our ability to pick up speed at this stage has everything to do with jettisoning unnecessary baggage.


L.B.

Great points made and ones that illustrate only some of the many contradictions found throughout the scriptures.

Most Christians do not realize the original Jerusalem ‘church’, which consisted of those who knew and walked with Jesus, was essentially wiped out in 70 AD, leaving only the outlying churches who were under the theology of Paul. These were founded by someone who persecuted Christians for almost two decades, never knew first hand what Jesus actually taught, and who heralded originally from Tarsus, the hotbed of pagan ideologies of the day. It is no surprise, that three centuries later, Rome would adopt a religion that barely reflected what Jesus actually taught.

It is not difficult to bottomline what is important; without LOVE, we are simply a clanging cymbal.