Changedagain (CA):

Following the $$$ trail was a response to your enquiry.

Well, I for one have found something that is new to me. I pretty much resit anything that comes from the NAR, New Apostolic Reformation, for obvious reasons, to use what sounds like a Southern phrase, 'once burnt, a lesson learnt.' But, there is a thing called "soaking" that they do. It's some really cool music and you just turn it on and go to sleep praying and meditating on the Lord. I like that. But, you have to be careful because there sometimes is scripture being read, and I always make sure that is all that it is, and there is no "rhema" word", which is the same thing as "living" word. Now there is a such a thing as rhema or living word, but, and this is a big BUT, it has to be founded firmly and actually birthed from the "logos" word. That, we have discovered in our adventures together, of major, MAJOR, importance.

I see it a lot, on the Christian television stations. I think I spelled that wrong again, red lines are everywhere, I think i need to go back to school. But I looked up Rhema word and it is what the charismatics call what we used to call a "living" word. In the encyclopedia there was a very ominous warning, at least to me, that this always must come from the Logos or written word, sort of like JRS used to say, the plumbline.

But more about that in a few, right now, I am going to just say, that if you are careful that any scripture that is being read in the soaking music is listened to and it is a reliable decent bible version, (more about that too later) BTW, I don't read New American Standard any more, but anyway, if you really get a clean bunch of scriptures with no ropes attached, no pre-conceived tie in to something somebody wants you to believe and using that scripture as proof, that soaking music is a good thing. It's really pleasant, and helps you sleep, and helps you get a connection with the Lord.

When someone speaks a rhema or living word, the hearers, the congregation has the tendency to start wanting to build alters to the speaker, here is where Paul and Barnabas tore their robes, they were ready to walk out right there, because they were about to be robbed of all of their anointing. They can not stop there and become someone’s god. They must stop the hearers from doing that or they will get sucked into it as it plays on their carnality and emotional needs and there is the loss of their anointing. The ministers start to cater to the desires of the crowd and the minister starts to fabricate emotional, subjective “words” that tickle the ears of the congregation.

Here is my take on it, I believe that the scripture "the carnal mind is the enemy of God or the Spirit" becomes a twisted scripture when people are instructed to leave their mind at the door, and to not think or question anything. I think the spiritual has a direct link to the physical, which is logical. Physics is logical, the natural, physical is logical, and I think the direct link from the physical to the spiritual is the mental or soul level, it has to be there, but it has to be logical too. I recall when people were instructed that they should not be emotional at all and they should not think at all. Because it was believed in the part of the Walk I was in that emotions were an enemy against the spiritual, and if you showed any signs of emotion, then you were uncool because you were not being spiritual. Well, emotions are very much a part of a healthy life, and Jesus was at times emotional, but He was also always logical. The logical, mind is not an enemy of God, and not an enemy of the spirit. The mind that is lost in runaway emotionalism or soul-ish-ness is an enemy of the spiritual walk, but a RENEWED mind that we are promised by the Lord, that is not an enemy against God.

The Walk, at the time we were in it, did try to get the followers to just stop thinking. That was the whole reason for the long, drawn out hypnotic antics in worship at times, and the long bouts of intercession, where we all tried to use the right phraseology so we would not be different. All that warred against our ability to think for ourselves. Because the scripture was twisted, the scripture about the carnal mind being an enemy against God.

The carnal mind, is consumed with lusts and emotional needs of all sorts, but the renewed mind, takes on the mind of Christ, where there is emotion present, and there is logic present, in a balanced, well mind.

I would suspect most people who are former LWF members would be extremely suspect of “Rhema words” after being exposed to false words that produced so much destruction. Paul said in 1 Corinthians 14:1, “Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophesy.” There obviously is something there that can be a blessing to the Body. Attempting to take the place of God in people's lives is not a blessing to them and when it's done without love, is even more abusive. As His sheep, we are to know and follow His voice - and it's always for our good. The fact that He confirms His word is a wonderful thing - not something to be feared. When He starts giving directions to others about your life and doesn't talk to you about it - that should be feared - and we all witnessed the fruit of it in TLWF. Paul encouraged all to prophesy – it was not a position - and the purpose was to strengthen, encourage, and comfort, not to control. That is contrasted by the thief that comes to steal, kill, and destroy.

I remember telling my shepherd that I was tired of telling people what was wrong with them in these ministry sessions that were supposedly “words from God” without offering them some solution that gave them hope. It seemed we were doing nothing different than the enemy who was simply the accuser. I think you can hold up John’s vision of the Lord and decide if it is one that strengthens, encourages or comforts or does it seek to steal, kill, and destroy. I would suggest that the “God” of TLWF is something completely different than the one Jesus was talking about. John’s openness to the occult caused all kinds of problems and false visions. The early church burned their occult books – not made a library of them thinking they could be of benefit.

In my own journey, I completely ignored any still small voice I had learned in TLWF for a season, and just stuck to the red letters. It was quite confusing that my still small voice could be trained to say something completely contrary to scripture and could not be trusted. “There is a way that seems right to a man, but the end is the way of death.” It seems right – just like the fruit in the Garden of Eden that was good for food, pleasing to the eye, and desirable for gaining wisdom. Just because it appears right and good does not make it God – a hard but valuable lesson to learn. I just found the red letters can always be trusted and work 100% of the time – quite different than the self-serving superstitions of TLWF. Eventually, the Holy Spirit’s voice became more pronounced and I started looking for places to serve and give instead of being so selfish. I was the most surprised of all to find myself caring for people I had no concern for in the past. On the other hand, my tolerance for wolves in sheep’s clothing also went way down, and I started speaking up in situations I had formerly remained quiet about when I knew better. You really do start to find life – just as He said.

AD:

All important points. As discussed earlier, one of the great disservices done within TLW was turning the focus away from cultivating an environment that was conducive to hearing the ‘still, small voice’, and redirecting it to a person, be it an apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, teacher, Elijah, Elisha, Paul, Timothy, designated relationship, et al.

We should have been led to the place where we too could declare, “I and my Father are One”, and, “Of myself, I can do nothing” (born out of being ‘properly’ connected). We were depowered in a way that guaranteed our perpetual immaturity, when we should have been empowered into maturity. A true ‘teacher of GOD’ never creates a dependency-relationship, but instead, strives to empower the student to the place where the teacher is no longer necessary.

The message of the GOSPEL promotes our maturity apart from any man or movement. Unfortunately, TLW understood it to be otherwise.

One thing is for sure, people do receive what they ask for. In the Walk, people sought John's spirit. They did not seek God's Spirit. That's how it rolled around to the time when John died, the spiritual leaders of the thing were screaming from the pulpit, I quote! "I don't know this Jesus DUDE, but I do know John, and I demand that he come back!!!" Well, they demanded till three quarters of the fellowship picked up their marbles and walked out, but guess what, John is still pushing up daisies Shiloh's grave yard and now his spiritual wife is there beside him.

The following are typical sentiments from ‘little-people’ regarding the passing of TLW leadership. I share them here to illustrate the degree of misperception that exists for those who reside in the cheap seats, and have forever been insulated and isolated from the ‘reality’ that hid behind closed doors.

“Know that we are All Celebrating You Marilyn, and your great Life. We Honor the Treasure that you have been to All of us. We deeply Respect, Thank You and Love you Forever!!!”

“Forever In Our Hearts, Gary & Marilyn Hargrave...Deeply Thankful for All You Have Done, Are Doing Now, and Will Continue to Do. Without Question, We Carry On With You...With All Our Hearts. We Deeply Love, Honor, Care, Appreciate You Both, and As One...We Salute You.”


. . . I hear no insanity, I see no insanity, I . . .

Going into this next phase, it appears that the two people who will have the most influence over what people in TLWF think and do will be Gary Hargrave and Rick Holbrook. I hope that those that are presently on the fence take the opportunity to find a better life.

--Regarding Paleface: I'm aware of where he has received much of his information, and I consider the source(s) to be trustworthy.

--Regarding Lily Rose: Her contributions have been very meaningful, and I hope her departure from this forum in not permanent.

--Regarding Lampshmamp: Always has potent "takes." I prefer his/her contributions over Lamp from Ikea--who, BTW, seems to have disappeared from all anti-cult activity. Likely spending his/her time trying to put furniture together.

Anyway, this my attempt to promote oneness. If it works, I will start focusing my efforts on the nations.

My previous post about JRS still being dead after all the intercession to combat that, that might have been a little insensitive, I didn't have to phrase it that way.

What happened in the Walk, is the same thing that is rampant all over a segment of Christianity, this idea that God is subservient to certain spiritual principles and if you push the right buttons you can get Him to do anything you want. Perhaps the new Walk is evolving out of that some. i don't know. Most of my comments are about the old Walk, Walk number 1, because I bugged out when I saw Marilyn. The way she was when I saw here, I would have rather been in cage with a rabid pit bull than in a church service with her at the helm.

From what I have seen in Charismania outside of there, of the blab-it-and grab it people, it is the same principle. The same old con.

I do believe though that God is a loving God that can and will step into our lives when we approach Him within reason, according to HIS Lordship, and not from the standpoint of our agenda.