Thanks for the welcomes and replies everyone. I'm pretty much over my bitterness/anger toward TLWF at this point, the Cox video is more of a curiosity than anything. It sounds like it may not be worth the effort of tracking down.

One thing that's always helped me, that I've realized since leaving, is how small and insignificant TLWF really is. When I was a part of things, it always seemed like we were such a large, powerful, and important organization, but it's pretty obvious now that it's a small, fringe organization that will probably die out on it's own in a couple of decades.

Rather than anger, I feel pity for the people still in the Church, paying their tithes, taking their tinctures, and paying for their "courses" - they will continue to have their time and pocketbooks fleeced by G&M out a of a misguided sense of duty to an organization that has nothing but their own self interest in mind. I wish the time and effort could be spent on something more worthwhile, but there certainly are more harmful organizations out there.

I'm sure Shiloh University is very lucrative, since many of the "professors" are volunteers, and tuition looks pretty expensive! Maybe this will help keep the "upward flow" of cash going to G&M for a bit longer. Expensive classes to move up in a religious institution? Straight out of the L. Ron Hubbard playbook when you think about it.

FCSLC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Escaping was liberating, but
> being fully convinced in all aspects is much
> better.
> This means we can’t be labeled as “rebellious
> spirits” or “blowouts” or
> “anti-Christ’s” or “contaminating
> spirits” and so on especially in our own minds.
> _________________________________________________________
>
Yes. Yes. Yes. It seem to me that within the body (Christ being the "head") only the "anus" could have coined the term blowouts to describe those who were amputated by the ministry and those who chose amputation.

“No bad labels for us, just the pioneering spirit to be true to our own heavenly vision---------the “original calling” we had before getting sidetracked and submerged in another’s personal way and interpretation.”

It may seem to some to be an insignificant point, but what a huge life lesson! Rob Estes offered these words of encouragement - “If you’re going through hell, keep going.” In hindsight, I’ve often wondered if the deep wonderful waters of God’s Spirit require suffering, enduring experiences such as TLWF along the way to see if we are really hungering after Him, or do we have some other personal agendas that the fires of God need to purify. Will we bog down in all the muck of people and systems that have pretended to be Him, or will we keep our hearts fixed on Him and refuse to be distracted or denied?

It’s amazing how liberating the words of Jesus are when we finally scrape below the surface and find our own personal experience where, “From this time many of his disciples turned back an no longer followed him. ‘You do not want to leave too, do you?’ Jesus asked the Twelve. Simon Peter answered him, ’Lord to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God’”. These words point to Christ alone – not to those that want to take his place. “There is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” – an often hard lesson to learn, especially if we have future aspirations to play God ourselves, like those we give ourselves to along the way.

Jesus told the Jews, ”You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.” No matter who our tutors have been, there comes a point where like Elisha we say, “Where now is the Lord, the God of Elijah?” and we accept personal responsibility to know the Lord – not a secondhand relationship. For some, even the scriptures seem to get in the way – much less all the teachings of men, such as TLW, and their efforts to play Providence in the lives of “the submissive”.

It seems every significant life in the Kingdom goes through this step – including John’s. I don’t think it’s God’s plan for us to be living in some spiritual welfare state at the end of our lives, living off the meager rations of another’s efforts. As a grandfather, if my kids were still living at home, I would not have prepared them very well for life and the need to stand on their own two feet. The same is equally true for spiritual lives – even if you can convince others you are God. The real God will heal all the wounds you receive along the way while seeking Him – it is so worth it! The goal is a relationship with Him - all else is secondary. “In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. These have come so that your faith – of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire – may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.”

Ditch Digging Yasper,

Thanks for sharing. It's refreshing to hear a youthful point of view. (There's a lot of grandpas on this site.)

paleface Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kudos to those brave pioneers that first broke the silence.........
> You each helped liberate me. I can't thank you enough.
_______________________________________

I 2nd that. Also would give a Factnet shout out to Dew Drop and Link for really brave transparency and forgiving. It was a big take away for me.

according to corporationwiki.com

"Hargrave Family Ministries - A Living Word Ministry filed as an Articles of Incorporation in the State of California filed on Friday, March 26, 1982. This corporation is approximately thirty-two years old according to documents filed with California Secretary of State."

[www.corporationwiki.com]

1982? A year before John died? For some reason, this smells funny to me. What was Gary up to? Maybe it was a way to shelter funds from Donna. The congregants were told about this corporation much later. And it was "spun" that G&M both set it up.

Paleface posted:

1982? A year before John died? For some reason, this smells funny to me. What was Gary up to? Maybe it was a way to shelter funds from Donna.

The congregants were told about this corporation much later. And it was "spun" that G&M both set it up.
-------------------------
Yes,

These information's posted show that,
In March 1982 John was still alive when the Hargrave Family Ministries Corp. was set up and filed with the State of Ca.

John died June 4, 1983. It appears that a financial provision of some kind was set up for Gary Hargrave almost 15 months before John's death while Gary was still married to Donna.

I wonder if Donna Hargrave and Gary's & Donna's daughter - who was born after John's death and I think just before Donna & Gary's divorced. I wonder if Donna received any benefit from the Hargrave Family Ministries Corporation to help financially support and sustain Donna and the Hargrave baby after their divorce ?

It would be interesting to know - if those who set up the corporation duped Donna as Gary's wife - by having her sign a quit claim so she could make no claim as having any real interest or financial interest as Gary's wife - in the Hargrave Family Ministries Corp. - some time before Gary and Donna divorced?

Donna Hargrave worked outside of the church - in the public sector earning a living for some good time - and had supported Gary & herself - so Gary could be freed to serve in the ministry, with out Gary 's own time, having to be tied up at being gainfully employed..

These are the kinds of things that the members of the TLWF should know about - so they can make an informed and wise decision about how much they are willing to invest of themselves , their time, their finances and their lives - before allowing other people, to direct and run their lives - which in itself is not wize.

And...be aware that at first it may not seem one's life is being directed.

I learned this the hard way.

If you start your membership from a position of strength or self confidence
in your own life, you may be treated very well.

But all of us have set backs at one time or another. We all have sudden
upsets and tragedies, accidents, illnesses that leave us reeling.

People we love may suffer hardship and that in turn can throw us off kilter.

Loss of a job.

When we are disoriented, that is when a genuinely controlling person
or group will slip its noose around your neck.

Gently, very gently.

The noose is not slipped on when you are strong and grounded; it is slipped
on when you need guidance.

When one feels a need for guiding, leading, a noose seems more like a guiding hand.

You've already built an relationship of trust with them. It is natural when in trouble to look to them for orientation, for guidance. You're vulnerable, creaturely.

You let yourself be directed, guided. We follow orders and directions from
a paramedic when we are felled in an accident.

A true minister will assist you to find strength in God and recover
your own gifts and set you on your feet again.

But the controlling groups will catch you when you are dependent and
find ways to start from that setback and keep you more and more
dependent.

So... you may not see the oppression so long as you are in a position
of strength.

But when you're in a setback -- especially one you may feel guilty about
or ashamed about -- that reveals a ministry's true allegiance.

To the God who loves freedom and assists us out of slavery.

Or the deceiver that would put chains on us and keep us chained.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2014 08:54PM by corboy.

Well said.