TO: paleface

FM: FCSLC

RE: You just "Made My Day." Thanks. "Awesome!!"

It can be a sad situation when people are not allowed to grow according to their own intellectual capacities. I remember one time when we were having a Bible study that no “official shepherds” showed up. One member who had a Catholic background spoke up and said, “We cannot do a Bible study without the shepherds, the Word is ‘sealed,’ only the shepherds can ‘unseal the Bible’ and interpret it correctly for us.”

Okay. There is some justifiable ‘truth’ in the member’s statement. There’s probably a verse or two about a sealed book in the Book of Revelation.

My three questions are:

One --- If you follow this line of thinking, are the false shepherds going to inform you that they are actually, indeed, ‘False Christs,’ or is that the individual’s responsibility?

Two --- Wasn’t the movement out of the Dark Ages sparked by individuals who became educated, informed and started protesting?

Three --- Whenever there is a takeover, conquered land, or change in regimes, aren’t the philosophers, the intellectuals, the truly informed and independent individuals the first to be executed, thrown out or banished?

As paleface testified, they teach only what they want at their university, contrary to the spirit of the word, “University,” which for some implies the meaning, “all universal knowledge.”

What’s new? Everybody in the religious world is doing the same thing; using certain titles, structured business definitions and legal terms in order to meet the IRS codes for “Tax Shelters,” “Tax Exempt Status” and “Tax Hedges” for the owners and the faculties.

FCSLC – I really liked your last post. It has been my contention for some time that we should be looking at teachers like TLWF through the lens of Jesus’ words instead of Jesus’ words through the lens of teachers. Our conscience can be trained to believe something is of God, if we place the source above Jesus’ words. All cults follow a similar pattern – you need me to get to God. “Call no man teacher – you have one and it’s the Christ” might be a good place to start. The next thing is to check is the fruit – you don’t get bad fruit out of a good tree. Sites like this and others are full of evidence of bad fruit. If God were to speak to simple uneducated men about His ways, what would He say? He has already said it in the commands of Jesus in a way that anyone who is willing to do His will can understand. We don’t need new revelation or someone else to explain it, we just need to obey what He has already told us to do – then this walk with Him begins to open up just as He promised. The thieves and robbers intimidate followers into thinking they are rebellious if they do not come to them for their dose of God. They only have self interest in mind - not the good of others. Jesus said, “Come to Me – I’m the only way to the Father.” Many of us have tried the first path – many of us more than once - and come away tattered and torn. Now it’s time to try just Him - and we will find He is more faithful than we could ever imagine. The more I discover about Him, the more I love Him.

larry bobo wrote: “It has been my contention for some time that we should be looking at teachers like TLWF through the lens of Jesus’ words instead of Jesus’ words through the lens of teachers.”

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Check out John 1:18. No one else in Bible History has taught or spoke or explained from this position, from the “bosom of the Father.” Not Moses or Paul or anybody else as far as I have read. Jesus’ teaching/example should be considered the plumb line.

I’ve had recent conversations with people still inside the Living Word Fellowship and it strikes me just how much they are under a “spell”. A spell that seems to cause them to turn off their internal voice of reason. Their internal voice of conscience and to some degree, their sense of ethics. What “holy spirit” are they listening to anyway? And they just don’t see it. It is like a blindness. This is a dangerous situation, as it means that their BS sniffer is busted and can lead to them doing something very wrong and never stop to think about if it is right or wrong (or downright illegal). They are like Gary and Marilyn’s robots, set on autopilot. Where is this all headed? As things destabilize, it could get weird and downright dangerous for members in the LW. I hope I am wrong.

Maybe a trip to the Vatican would help.

The leaders, with their warped perception of God, have hijacked people's minds and hearts...so, unfortunately, any form of heinous behavior can be considered acceptable. The "spell" is very powerful.
I experienced and witnessed the coercive tendencies of leadership. A personal example that comes to mind was an incident back in '84, when Gary was commissioning the new Redlands 'default' shepherd during a local church service. The shepherd had brought a case of beer to the service, openly consuming quite a few prior to his commissioning. I made the mistake of voicing a joke about it...and Gary's immediate response was to tell me that he would kill me if I didn't 'support' this shepherd. I didn't take his threat as hyperbole. Fortunately, I wasn't personally present some months later when this same shepherd, supposedly with the spirit of King David, smashed a guitar over a visitor's head after the visitor made a 'disparaging' comment about our organist. I know my natural tendency if I witnessed that situation would be to question whether God was really manifesting himself through my shepherd--doubt that would only lead me into more trouble.
What wonderful days...

paleface Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I’ve had recent conversations with people still
> inside the Living Word Fellowship and it strikes
> me just how much they are under a “spell”. A
> spell that seems to cause them to turn off their
> internal voice of reason. Their internal voice of
> conscience and to some degree, their sense of
> ethics.

> Maybe a trip to the Vatican would help.

Yes, maybe it would help. Here are a few Pope Francis quotes:

"I like it when someone tells me 'I don't agree.' This is a true collaborator. When they say 'Oh, how great, how great, how great,' that's not useful."

"Every man, every woman who has to take up the service of government, must ask themselves two questions: 'Do I love my people in order to serve them better? Am I humble and do I listen to everybody, to diverse opinions in order to choose the best path?' If you don't ask those questions, your governance will not be good."

"In the delicate task of carrying out inquiries for episcopal appointments be careful that the candidates are pastors close to the people, fathers and brothers, that they are gentle, patient and merciful; animated by inner poverty, the freedom of the Lord and also by outward simplicity and austerity of life, that they do not have the psychology of princes.".

“Animated by inner poverty” & “Do not have the psychology of princes."

Mark 10:42-43 (NASB) --- “Calling them to Himself, Jesus *said to them, “You know that those who are recognized as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them; and their great men exercise authority over them. But it is not this way among you, ……..”

‘Not This Way’ among you.

This Pope has been there and knows ------- almost too good to be true.

FCSLC Wrote:
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> This Pope has been there and knows ------- almost
> too good to be true.

That's why it is baffling that Gary has chosen this Pope to be connected to. They seem to have opposite attitudes.

Possibility:

Since the Pope is meek, maybe Gary feels he can intimidate him and eventually gain domination over him, as well as the entire Catholic Church, and then be the boss of all!!