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pomegranate
Occam's Razor people, please.

I think it's hilariously ironic to try and apply Occam's Razor to a discussion about cults in general, let alone the topic in question. Especially if it's something you know nothing about, and are only posting for the sake of reputation. If there was nothing to be concerned about, why would you even care?

Some people care about the welfare of others.

Others do not.

I realize that folks are bitter and upset. It's understandable, based on what y'all are writing about.
However....
Every few years I Google Sharon or Alex just to find out what they've been up to now...
So, I see there's a new website up - [www.esotericfreedom.com ]- which invites people to "tell their stories." And, stopping by this forum again, I see that some of the comments are verbatim from here, therefore I conclude that this is another rickross or affiliated project.
Now, as I enjoy writing, I wouldn't mind adding my story to the website, but I see that can't actually be done in the manner the website seems to invite. It would appear a person would email their story to the anonymous mailer and then, perhaps, it might get on the website.
Having read the stories, it is obvious that the website is just another forum to bash Alex and Sharon and that whatever story I wrote would have to be negative in order to be put on the site.
That's a tad disingenuous, no? Y'all don't think it's just a little hypocritical and dishonest, which seems to be your main problem with Sharon and Alex & Co. to "invite" people to tell their stories, but only accept the negative ones? It sounds rather "cultish" to me.
Anyway, with the experience of Life and Everything, I can still look back on my days with Sharon and Alex and Bob and Fred and all of the other folk I knew and loved, and remember how useful it was. Hey - I got to go to Israel before the 1st Intifada and visit West Berlin and East Berlin and Amsterdam and Europe! All expenses paid too. That alone was worth the price of admission.
But, there was much more and most of it was good.
I would strongly suggest that those who are still "suffering" from their experiences with Sharon or Alex attempt to remember what was good and discard all the dross. And, get on with Life. It's much too short to make a cult out of hating Sharon or Alex.
Be well...

Sometimes I get an automatic notification that something has been posted and then I go and look and there is nothing there. Maybe removed by the moderators? It looked like Moishe3rd left a new post but I don't see it.

The word is that Alex Horn is ill and looks awful.

There's a new blog connected to esotericfreedom.com at [esotericfreedom.blogspot.com]. Anyone can log in as anonymous and post any comments they want.

Moishe3rd:

Seems like you got off easy.

Others did not.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Sharon Gans and Alex Horn did hurt people and "victim bashing" isn't really a meaningful response to that reality.

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rrmoderator
Moishe3rd:

Seems like you got off easy.

Others did not.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Sharon Gans and Alex Horn did hurt people and "victim bashing" isn't really a meaningful response to that reality.

Forgive me, but I cannot see where that was either my implied or obvious intention.
I gather that you intend this forum to be a "place for healing" and not a place where the finer points of various "cults" might be expressed. Again, this is perfectly understandable - it's your space.
I was mainly a tad irked at the new website I ran across that seems to be affiliated with this forum and that states "We welcome you to add your stories to these pages," but has, thus far, only published the negative.
I find that somewhat dishonest and therefore, hypocritical, as I have stated. I come to neither praise Alex and Sharon, nor bury them. I just happen to enjoy writing and sharing my experiences with those who might be interested.
Be well...

See [www.culteducation.com]

This explains the sponsor of the message board.

This board is affiliated with the Ross Institute of New Jersey, culteducation.com, cultnews.com, cultnews.net and culteducation.com.

There are no other associations with another Web site.

You said,

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Having read the stories, it is obvious that the website is just another forum to bash Alex and Sharon and that whatever story I wrote would have to be negative in order to be put on the site.

And,

Quote

I can still look back on my days with Sharon and Alex and Bob and Fred and all of the other folk I knew and loved, and remember how useful it was...most of it was good.

And also,

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I would strongly suggest that those who are still "suffering" from their experiences with Sharon or Alex attempt to remember what was good and discard all the dross. And, get on with Life. It's much too short to make a cult out of hating Sharon or Alex.

This seems like a mix of apology and victim bashing to me.

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Moishe3rd
I realize that folks are bitter and upset. It's understandable, based on what y'all are writing about.
However....
Every few years I Google Sharon or Alex just to find out what they've been up to now...
So, I see there's a new website up - [www.esotericfreedom.com ]- which invites people to "tell their stories." And, stopping by this forum again, I see that some of the comments are verbatim from here, therefore I conclude that this is another rickross or affiliated project.
Now, as I enjoy writing, I wouldn't mind adding my story to the website, but I see that can't actually be done in the manner the website seems to invite. It would appear a person would email their story to the anonymous mailer and then, perhaps, it might get on the website.
Having read the stories, it is obvious that the website is just another forum to bash Alex and Sharon and that whatever story I wrote would have to be negative in order to be put on the site.
That's a tad disingenuous, no? Y'all don't think it's just a little hypocritical and dishonest, which seems to be your main problem with Sharon and Alex & Co. to "invite" people to tell their stories, but only accept the negative ones? It sounds rather "cultish" to me.
Anyway, with the experience of Life and Everything, I can still look back on my days with Sharon and Alex and Bob and Fred and all of the other folk I knew and loved, and remember how useful it was. Hey - I got to go to Israel before the 1st Intifada and visit West Berlin and East Berlin and Amsterdam and Europe! All expenses paid too. That alone was worth the price of admission.
But, there was much more and most of it was good.
I would strongly suggest that those who are still "suffering" from their experiences with Sharon or Alex attempt to remember what was good and discard all the dross. And, get on with Life. It's much too short to make a cult out of hating Sharon or Alex.
Be well...

Mr. Moishe3rd you must be one amazing cat. You were able to properly distinguish right from wrong, good from bad while you were involved with Sharon and Alex and their minions, then you left those folks on your own terms with nary a scratch to your highly developed psyche, and have now returned out of benign curiosity to dispense your sage-like advice to those mere mortals who just never made it to the esoteric mountaintop as you have. One can practically feel the spiritual warmth emanating from your saintly visage over the ones and zeroes that constitute the Web.
Here’s my take for what it’s worth: you sat by-- sometimes petrified-- and witnessed abuse, eventually participated in the abuse from your intermittent position of leadership, all the while buffering yourself off, or more familiarly compartmentalizing and splitting yourself in order to cope. In short you suppressed a whole lot in order to continue and survive, and now that a long time has passed and the wounds have successfully scarred—or so you hope-- you blithely advise others to just “let go” of the bad and get on with their lives. You also have had the utterly unique experience of more good things than bad while skating through your life among the sociopaths. I wonder what that really says about you, don’t you?
It is positively breathtaking how you have synthesized arrogance, ignorance, obliviousness, and touchy-feely grandiosity into one package.
Here’s how healing works in the real world for mere mortals: victims of abuse initially – repeat initially-- need to acknowledge their pain and suffering and without any sense of ambivalence, in order for healing to begin. Only later after processing this pain and after some time has passed (perhaps years) can people begin to look back at the positive experiences that peppered their overall experience. To ask people to run before they can crawl or walk is unsympathetic in the extreme. I’ll just bet there are many readers out there who only wish they had your gifts.
But you keep doing what you’re doing-- keeping it “Moishe3rd Real”—just don’t level the terms “disingenuous” and “hypocritical” at those who have not achieved your spiritual insight. It looks bad and as you know appearances are important to some spiritually-evolved people you have known and I’ll bet learned a few tricks from, eh?
By the way you left one big detail about the period you refer to—namely that Alex and Sharon had to tone down their act considerably because they were compelled to hire professional actors to literally take their show on the road. Had they continued to go on with their shenanigans at the customary level that production would have gone nowhere because not even kooky actors and actresses would have taken the gig.
In order to cut through your caked-over persona I have purposely adopted a tone of sarcasm to work as a solvent on you. If you ask why I am doing this for you it is because you have come here asking for help, despite what you really think your intentions are.
You see, I like keeping it real just like you do.

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cber7

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Moishe3rd
I realize that folks are bitter and upset. It's understandable, based on what y'all are writing about.
However....
Every few years I Google Sharon or Alex just to find out what they've been up to now...
So, I see there's a new website up - [www.esotericfreedom.com ]- which invites people to "tell their stories." And, stopping by this forum again, I see that some of the comments are verbatim from here, therefore I conclude that this is another rickross or affiliated project.
Now, as I enjoy writing, I wouldn't mind adding my story to the website, but I see that can't actually be done in the manner the website seems to invite. It would appear a person would email their story to the anonymous mailer and then, perhaps, it might get on the website.
Having read the stories, it is obvious that the website is just another forum to bash Alex and Sharon and that whatever story I wrote would have to be negative in order to be put on the site.
That's a tad disingenuous, no? Y'all don't think it's just a little hypocritical and dishonest, which seems to be your main problem with Sharon and Alex & Co. to "invite" people to tell their stories, but only accept the negative ones? It sounds rather "cultish" to me.
Anyway, with the experience of Life and Everything, I can still look back on my days with Sharon and Alex and Bob and Fred and all of the other folk I knew and loved, and remember how useful it was. Hey - I got to go to Israel before the 1st Intifada and visit West Berlin and East Berlin and Amsterdam and Europe! All expenses paid too. That alone was worth the price of admission.
But, there was much more and most of it was good.
I would strongly suggest that those who are still "suffering" from their experiences with Sharon or Alex attempt to remember what was good and discard all the dross. And, get on with Life. It's much too short to make a cult out of hating Sharon or Alex.
Be well...

Mr. Moishe3rd you must be one amazing cat. You were able to properly distinguish right from wrong, good from bad while you were involved with Sharon and Alex and their minions, then you left those folks on your own terms with nary a scratch to your highly developed psyche, and have now returned out of benign curiosity to dispense your sage-like advice to those mere mortals who just never made it to the esoteric mountaintop as you have. One can practically feel the spiritual warmth emanating from your saintly visage over the ones and zeroes that constitute the Web.

That's beautiful man... Can I have your beer? :)
I am but an egg, cber7 - an old one at that. Wisdom is a rather strong epithet to throw my way. Experience, maybe...
As I noted before, I simply enjoy writing and exchanging ideas; debate; history, even. You'll get no pearls of wisdom from me. I am boringly ordinary and below average in this glittering world we live in.
Actually, like those who came before and after, I was kicked out of School. The only difference is, I didn't go back. No regrets.

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Here�s my take for what it�s worth: you sat by-- sometimes petrified-- and witnessed abuse, eventually participated in the abuse from your intermittent position of leadership, all the while buffering yourself off, or more familiarly compartmentalizing and splitting yourself in order to cope.

Actually, no, I don't think so. Admittedly, Alex did once slap me during a football game in Montana and scream at me "I'm not your father!" That was interesting. Useful, at the time also. And, Sharon did once slap my wife (of 28 years now) for being rather hateful. It seemed appropriate at the time. Other than that, I believe I got in three fistfights - all based on the idea that we were supposed to punch each other out in order to further our "goals" or whatever that was called. All three were very close friends. The last I heard, one of those guys was homeless in Florida...
One of them, I ran into many years later out camping with my family. He was with his new fiance. My wife and I went to his wedding.
And the third one - we email from time to time and again, my wife and I went to visit him and his family not too long ago... We both appreciate the things we learned in School.

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In short you suppressed a whole lot in order to continue and survive, and now that a long time has passed and the wounds have successfully scarred�or so you hope-- you blithely advise others to just �let go� of the bad and get on with their lives. You also have had the utterly unique experience of more good things than bad while skating through your life among the sociopaths. I wonder what that really says about you, don�t you?

I don't know.
Out of the large and varied groups of people I dealt with over the years, none of them seemed like sociopaths. Certainly not Sharon or Alex or Bob.
Familiarity and retrospective do tend to breed contempt so, I must admit, that I always viewed Alex as a man who was never going to be able to get where he wanted to go - just too much ego in his way. But, he had the Powah! He just didn't know how to channel it... And, although I loved Sharon, she was often sad over her marriage and her family life and all of the other complications that go along with trying to live a dual identity - Great Esoteric Teacher, and failed wife and mother. Based on what you all write, she has only gotten worse. And, that's a shame.
Bob was a good friend; neighbor; employer; business partner; and he tried. I gather he is still trying. I can't understand the hatred towards Bob, but what do I know? It's been a long time.
[i:db4a51479f]
It is positively breathtaking how you have synthesized arrogance, ignorance, obliviousness, and touchy-feely grandiosity into one package.[/i:db4a51479f]
I originally put the quote into the wrong place and the above came out at the end of my little paragraph. It seemed to fit, so I shall leave it... :roll:

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It is positively breathtaking how you have synthesized arrogance, ignorance, obliviousness, and touchy-feely grandiosity into one package.
Here�s how healing works in the real world for mere mortals: victims of abuse initially � repeat initially-- need to acknowledge their pain and suffering and without any sense of ambivalence, in order for healing to begin. Only later after processing this pain and after some time has passed (perhaps years) can people begin to look back at the positive experiences that peppered their overall experience.

Okay.
Whatever is needed.

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To ask people to run before they can crawl or walk is unsympathetic in the extreme. I�ll just bet there are many readers out there who only wish they had your gifts.

cber7, it's been 25 years... Several lifetimes have been lived and digested since then. Nonetheless, I just did not have the same horrifying experiences that you seem to indicate. Life is too short...

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But you keep doing what you�re doing-- keeping it �Moishe3rd Real��just don�t level the terms �disingenuous� and �hypocritical� at those who have not achieved your spiritual insight. It looks bad and as you know appearances are important to some spiritually-evolved people you have known and I�ll bet learned a few tricks from, eh?

It's not disingenuous and hypocritical? Okay. Whatever.

Quote

By the way you left one big detail about the period you refer to�namely that Alex and Sharon had to tone down their act considerably because they were compelled to hire professional actors to literally take their show on the road. Had they continued to go on with their shenanigans at the customary level that production would have gone nowhere because not even kooky actors and actresses would have taken the gig.

Cool. It seemed to work for everybody.
However, that was at the end of my School career. It was shortly after we got back from Europe that I was "kicked out." The previous 5 years before that had all of the sturm and drang of San Francisco to Boston to New York and beyond. Shenanigans abounded.

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In order to cut through your caked-over persona I have purposely adopted a tone of sarcasm to work as a solvent on you. If you ask why I am doing this for you it is because you have come here asking for help, despite what you really think your intentions are.
You see, I like keeping it real just like you do

I don't think so.
But, whom am I to say? Maybe you are a compassionate, happy person who is just trying to lend a helping hand.
It would appear that the opposite was true.
Be well.

Moishe3rd:

You say,

Quote

Alex did once slap me during a football game in Montana and scream at me "I'm not your father!" That was interesting. Useful, at the time also. And, Sharon did once slap my wife (of 28 years now) for being rather hateful. It seemed appropriate at the time. Other than that, I believe I got in three fistfights - all based on the idea that we were supposed to punch each other out in order to further our "goals" or whatever that was called... We both appreciate the things we learned in School.

Then you say,

Quote

Out of the large and varied groups of people I dealt with over the years, none of them seemed like sociopaths. Certainly not Sharon or Alex or Bob.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Sharon Gans and Alex Horn have a horrible reputation as reported in the press and by former members of their group, which has been called a "cult."

Gans has no meaningful accountability and seems to be little more than "cult leader" exploiting people through a scam, which she prefers to call a "school."

She has used members to remodel her properties, bilked them for dues to support her lavish lifestyle and broken up relationships when it suited her purposes.

Many people have been badly hurt by Gans through her group.

Though you have chosen to dismiss all this and the violence and rages asscociated with Gans/Horn, others see it all as evidence of their deeply disturbed personalities and abusive nature.

And the lack of conscience Sharon Gans and Alex Horn have displayed historically, is often associated with sociopaths.

You seem to be unable or unwilling to recognize this and prefer instead to rationalize virtually anything Gans and Horn have done, such as slapping and raging whenever they wish.

However, what you have been willing to admit places them in a far less than benign category.