Hi there,

I would like some advice.

A friend of mine called me this morning asking if I'd like to join the landmark forum. I've had problems with my career and direction etc. and he suggested I do it as it helped him.

However, this is the second time I've come across the forum; while in college a fellow student asked me to come to her 'graduation' which turned out to be a 'introduction'. I argued I didn't want to do the course to people who looked at me with vacant and rather unquestioning faces. I was furious - they didn't take my answers seriously - my personal freedom was by the by...very dangerous as far as I was concerned.

Anyway, this friend is someone I hold in high esteem and feel very confused by it. I feel as though a viral agent has hijacked the lines of communication to up-sell me this pseudo-heddegerian clap trap. As I have had challenges in my life of late I feel vulnerable. I explained I didn't wish to do it to him, however he says he will call me back and wants me to come up with 10 reasons why not. To be honest I have more difficulties coming up with 10 reasons to DO the course.

Any course that professes to achieve 'authentic' relations with people through group based coercion (something heidegger would have balked at) must be suspect. It totally insults my intelligence.

How do I proceed if I value the friendship of this person?

Landmark Forum is:
*a brainwashing seminar
*a pyramid scheme (legal because the labor is volunteered)
*group pressure/peer pressure
*skilled at harrasement
*a 'targeted marketing coorperation' (believe it, those are their own words!)
*going to target YOU
*a neighborhood nightmare
*a social epidemic
*yes it IS a cult for the enthusiastic
*empty rhetoric
*a salesman that YOU pay to solicite YOU
*secretly writting down any information you share during the forum in order to solicite you in the future
*full of real estate agents, car salesmen, loan officers, travel agents and more who are WATCHING YOU (and taking notes)- don't worry they'll introduce themselves as new friends at a later date once they know what your interests are. They are the ones who will help you purchase, oops I mean realize your true potential
*not your friend
*bastardized philosophy and social science
*scripted
*owned by the former board members of EST
*a more 'polished' and up to date version of EST
*required to have you sign a consent release form because of all those messy suicide lawsuits back in the seventies and eighties during the EST version
*not therapy
*sneaky
*insidious
*a snake oil salesman with a friendly face
*full of ------ (fill in the blank) rhetorical logic riddled word games that give you that warm 'I got it!' feeling
*a really bad idea
*a family and friend 'divider' not 'uniter'
*encouraging spouses NOT to tell their spouses what happened during the seminar
*a really really expensive weekend, or more
*psycologically dangerous
*full of feel good fluff
*full of feel bad stuff
*wants you, your family, your friends, and your friends friends to sign up
*wants YOU to recruit them, free of charge- because intra personal relationships are the marketing mechanism of the future, oops, I mean TODAY
*a class rate con job
*not an accredited educational organization
*affects more people then you would ever guess
*fools 90% of them- and that's good business
*an amazing business model because they pay NO ONE except the 'Leader' and owners and venue. Imagine that 'Leader' walking away with $10,000-$30,000 a weekend.
*definetely not harmless psycobabble
*programs devotees to use Landmark jargon which creates a covert Landmark sales pitch that they will consciously and subconsciously use everyday on everyone they know
*lying to you
*using fancy diagrams
*and confusion
*profiling you from the moment you walk in the door
*going to give you a name tag with a secret profile number 1-5 in order to best 'market' you
*may be government sponsored or condoned in order to help keep the economy spending in these trouble times (because dollar bills don't do uncle sam any good getting stale under the mattress)
*feels like church, gone to HELL
*not going out of business any time soon
*a business designed for salespeople to circumvent the national "Do not call list"
*going to get your phone number and keep calling, and calling, and calling, and calling you
*MINDCONTROL- and no, it does not require wires or implants- just changing someones choice of words is how they start the snowball rolling
*did I mention a really REALLY bad idea to get involved with?

Open yourself to the possibility that con-men can wear nice suits and shiny shoes too. Remember that you are not allowed to take notes (but the salespeople in the back of the room are). Rackets? Lets keep the discussion on YOUR rackets, not Landmarks please. If you leave to go the bathroom you might break the trance of confusion and group brainwash, so you'd better return to your seat at once if you want to get 'it'. They just want to help you have a 'clearing'. When your wallet is thoroughly cleared and the real estate agent, I mean new 'friend', has sold you a condemned building in the bad part of town that no one else wants, then you will truly know you've gotten 'it'. You may proceed to the next level. Sign here. Oh, and open your wallet please.

Hope I saved someone $400 :D and several friendships

landmark is scientology without the space aliens.
much of the rest of it is the same just packaged differently.

How do you think I should handle this though?

I know is a bad idea etc. Should I just get angry and say 'you've been had' which might threaten to end the friendship or is it possible to respectfully decline (didn't seem to work before).

The 10 reasons thing sounds like a Forum strategy...what are they trying to do with that line? Can I undercut it or is an argument here inevitable?

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How do I proceed if I value the friendship of this person?

Stay friends with him, but don't get involved in Landmark yourself. Talk about other things you have in common, things you've done in the past, fun times you've had together. And if you have the time and inclination, try to read as much as you can about Landmark...it may help you to understand what your friend is going through. You may wan to start with this article about est/Landmark and similar groups:

[www.culteducation.com]

And this study of Lifespring, a group very similar to Landmark:

[www.culteducation.com]

Thanks for that and other contributions.

Good luck with dealing with the pressure from your friend.

I would suggest to not get caught up with having to give '10 reasons...'. Just say NO. From my experience, it can become so complicated and exhausting getting caught in all the dialogue. And, in any case, what your friend is doing is a sort of 'survey' of your concerns and they will just go away and come back with slick means to counter everything you say. So, just say NO.

Read up everything you can about Landmark - lots of great info here, and books you can read too. This will give you more confidence to stay clear and strong, especially as you say that you are going through a vulnerable time at the moment.

It's good that you can see that you are vulnerable, but remember, so can your friend. If you do feel things happening in your life are not so good at the moment, go and get some legitimate help/therapy/advice - whatever, so you can be at less risk of being pulled into Landmark.

All the best!

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not_a_member
Thanks for that and other contributions.

and other contributions[/color:ed3bd22b74]?? Very Landmark common expression.

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not_a_member
Hi there,

I would like some advice.

A friend of mine called me this morning asking if I'd like to join the landmark forum. I've had problems with my career and direction etc. and he suggested I do it as it helped him.

However, this is the second time I've come across the forum; while in college a fellow student asked me to come to her 'graduation' which turned out to be a 'introduction'. I argued I didn't want to do the course to people who looked at me with vacant and rather unquestioning faces. I was furious - they didn't take my answers seriously - my personal freedom was by the by...very dangerous as far as I was concerned.

Anyway, this friend is someone I hold in high esteem and feel very confused by it. I feel as though a viral agent has hijacked the lines of communication to up-sell me this pseudo-heddegerian clap trap. As I have had challenges in my life of late I feel vulnerable. I explained I didn't wish to do it to him, however he says he will call me back and wants me to come up with 10 reasons why not. To be honest I have more difficulties coming up with 10 reasons to DO the course.

Any course that professes to achieve 'authentic' relations with people through group based coercion (something heidegger would have balked at) must be suspect. It totally insults my intelligence.

How do I proceed if I value the friendship of this person?

one of the first things u must do is to be able and willing
to lose this person possibly forever or at least for a little
while.

and as far as being pressured to attend. landmark is
a mind control organization. if u do some research u will
know what this means.

whether or not u are capable of resisting is up to u.

do u value your ability to think for yourself. if u do u will
resist it. if u are not sure or u dont then its just a matter
of time before landmark gets their hooks into u and u
become a droid with no right or wrong.

u need to be able to stand up for yourself and say no,
if u cant do this u are probably gonna become a landmarkian.

Landmark is a despicable, manipulating, brainwashing and most of all deceitful cult, and a clear example of how deceitful they are is the sham "graduation" you attended.

The Landmark mind-controllers pressure their flock, ie suckers, throughout the initial 3 day seminar to invite family, friends, your car mechanic, hairdresser and anyone else you know to attend this "graduation", and you go there thinking you're going to attend some graduation ceremony where they hand out diplomas or something like that. Right? WRONG! Instead of a ceremony, a group Landmark cronies get up and tell you how great this program is and how it's changed their lives. And if that is not bad enough, they then haul all the "invitees" to separate rooms, about 25 or so at a time, and then a leader starts puttin' the hard sell on you!

Your very attendance at that pressure-sales gathering should be enough for you to stay away from this dangerous cult. How many red flags went off in your head when you went? I think about 25 went off in my head. I immediately saw these lowlifes for the manipulators they are, and my subsequent research on Landmark confirmed my thoughts. And by the way, the only reason I went in the first place was that at the time I had never heard of Landmark.