I was just invited by a guy we work for to the Landmark Forum this Tuesday. He always talked about it so positively. He said he has been involved with it for almost half of his life, but only later did I realize that Landmark hasn't existed for that long, and it stems from another controversial program which must have been what he originally got involved in.

The thing is he is self-made, successful, and bright. He also has the perfect personality, ideal for Landmark, unfortunately. I never imagined this... I am a 22-year-old guy, not too sure of what I'm doing with my life, never went to college... but as soon as I started to question the beliefs of the Baptist church I grew up going to, the more aware I became of psychological manipulation. in other words -- you can't fool me... well, almost. I almost bought into it the other night, without even doing my own research when I got home! Not common of me! This skeptic has been a little lazy. But what can I say? Landmark had me convinced that it was ANYTHING but a cult. "Nahhh!" I even told the guy who was a speaker (or whatever they call them) and has been with the program so many years that "I know it's not a cult, I can see how it can help people.." I bought it! ...then. Now I'm just sitting back in amazement. WTF?? How did I not get it?

When I first arrived I should have guessed! Get this! The guy I was invited by is well worked in with Landmark for many years, has his own little desk there and all. I had arrived early with him because he had to set up and get things organized, ready up for the group. I waited in the office! Just me alone with these people making phone calls trying to get them to come back, asking them what they got out of it. A guy was talking to his father, trying to get him on the phone... and the employees (I guess they are paid?) were talking about it with each other like "yeah, he'll see... this can be so good for him. He NEEDS this.") Any program that says it can change your life, or sorry, guide you in helping you direct your own life in a positive direction, or whatever hoopla, and makes PHONE CALLS to people like salespersons to drag them in IS NOT LEGIT.

This is disheartening! This is a guy I know is smart, unique, has a good outlook, but his mindset is most likely wrapped up in the Landmark philosophy. I know that this man is not schemer trying to brainwash me so that Landmark can make money.... I realize that the people that work for it, speak for it, organize for it are all it's victims. And on the surface, it's not so bad! But this is technique and nothing more. I can EASILY have come to the same conclusions that I would have having spent 400+ on Landmark by talking to a therapist or really just pushing myself to dismiss negative/irrational thinking on my own or talking with friends. I suffer from social anxiety disorder, and I've discussed much of what Landmark does, so at first it appealed to me... I even mentioned to the leader in the introduction, a HIGHLY energetic, enthusiastic woman, that the program sort of coincided with my current mindset, having been trying to get myself to stop believing the negative things I do that hold me back in life.... which is VERY real. Landmark may have helped me along the way, but they also would have made 400 bucks.... which I wouldn't have paid since the guy I went with offered to pay fully and just wanted me to do the program.

Very peculiar, indeed. Just reminds me that you can never know too much, and you don't know everything. This had definately got me thinking, to say the least.

Hi there,

These people have gotten very, very good at finding vulnerabities and leveraging them into $$$. Actually, YOU give them the information when you answer their questions, so they don't really have to do that much work.

The best thing I can tell you is to find copies ot "Feeling Good" by David Burns and one of the "Cognitive Therapy" titles by Aaron Beck. If you've a mind to, you can pretty much learn what you need to know without giving money to a scam like Landmark, where they _pretend_ that their "programs" offer the same type of therapy, though they won't call it therapy.

(Members often offer to pay for their "recruits," knowing, if the recruits are decent types, they won't accept and will pay themselves, or will pay the money back. It's just another trick to overcome "resistance.")


Ellen

You can overcome your Social Anxiety by using Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.
There are well trained therapists in many cities, and many good self-help books, and even some good online groups.
Its a matter of FACING your fears, and doing "behavioral exposure therapy" and cognitive therapy.

Stay away from Landmark at all costs. You do not need it.
They will mess with your mind, and can severely harm you.

CBT can help you. The only caveat is to use your critical thinking to make sure you get a well-trained therapist who knows what they are doing.
I would suggest you stay away from therapy where you just "talk about your childhood". This is not going to help you GET BETTER.
Try CBT.
You literally could be "over" your Social Anxiety, or large parts of it, in just a few months of CBT therapy.

Here is a thread about Recovery
[board.culteducation.com]

Coz

My friend, if you suffer from social anxiety disorder the suitable thing to do is to seek professional help from a qualified therapist. Under no circumstances should you or anyone approach a despicable, deceitful cult with a not-so-hidden agenda to get your money and your friend’s and relative’s money. Realize that these Landmark leaders are not psychologists or psychiatrists. They are real estate agents, office workers and, just like the founder of EST, used car salesmen! And the only professional training they receive from Landmark is how to conduct hard sell on unsuspecting people. If you have a serious psychiatric condition are these the people you think you should turn to for help?

As far as whether Landmark is a cult, I would suggest you review what the experts in the field of cults say: check out the Cult Information Network and information websites in the U.S., U.K., Australia, New Zealand, the Netherlands and France. They all list Landmark as a cult – the one in New Zealand goes further and classifies Landmark as a “dangerous” cult. As well, the French government has officially classed Landmark as a cult. Closer to home, I understand Rick Ross himself has helped many a Landmarker break loose from this evil group.

You say your friend is “self-made, successful, and bright.” He would have been all that without Landmark, even though he probably credits Landmark with making him this way. If he is so deeply involved with the organization as you say then he has been programmed to give this cult all the credit for his successes in life.

But it seems you’re on to this group and what they’re all about. All should keep in mind that the sole reason for Landmark’s existence is to make money, money and more money. And their strategy in achieving this goal is to deceive and brainwash anyone they can. Think about it – they have hoards of “volunteers” all over the world. When one thinks of volunteering, most would give examples of volunteering at an old folks home, the SPCA, a hospital or a church garage sale. Whoever heard of volunteering for an international multi-million dollar corporation?(according to Landmark's own website their revenue in 2003 was $67 million). These “volunteers” have been reduced to being Landmark stooges, but it clearly shows that mind control and brainwashing is a very powerful tool. Can you understand why earlier I used the word “despicable"?

Landmark promotes the idea of "transforming the world". if you want to do that you need a lot more than $67 million a year. not standing up for them, only explaining how they can ratonalize it. if they made $67 billion a year they could no doubt rationalize the same thing.

I do/have been posting on a message board dealing with social anxeity. I have been progressing on and off over the years. I hope you all don't think I may have become a victim of Landmark due to young age and naivety. Since I was 15 I have been a self-proclaimed free thinker and skeptic. I haven't been a believer, growing up attending a Baptist church, since I was around that age. Pretty much what I'm trying to say is, Landmark fooled even me. I have different opportunities and ideas for myself, and I don't feel so doomed by my condition anymore, but something like Landmark can prey on your situation either way. I told them I might be leaving for California (I'm from NJ) within a week, and that may have turned them off, but even before I left they had to pander me, "you could always do Landmark when you get back", and tried to get me to sign up for April, but I didn't agree to it. It's obvious that my social anxiety symptoms, ie nervousness, blushing and sharing details about my lack of focus with my life, would make it that much easier for them to try and work their way in. It's just discomforting that people with less knowledge than me will probably be sucked into Landmark, and that's how they make their dollar.

Why do you need to come up with ten good reasons to do or not to do anything? You not being taken seriously is your firend's problem not yours. You are getting "hooked" by the psychology of it. Part of that is to get you to explain your choices to them. You don't have to do that. Proceed by just saying no. If your friend doesn't "get" that, you may have to let the friend feel bad about it. If you start doing the dance with him, he will keep dancing until he wears you down; so don't dance.
best,
IveGotIt

Quote
not_a_member
Hi there,

I would like some advice.

A friend of mine called me this morning asking if I'd like to join the landmark forum. I've had problems with my career and direction etc. and he suggested I do it as it helped him.

However, this is the second time I've come across the forum; while in college a fellow student asked me to come to her 'graduation' which turned out to be a 'introduction'. I argued I didn't want to do the course to people who looked at me with vacant and rather unquestioning faces. I was furious - they didn't take my answers seriously - my personal freedom was by the by...very dangerous as far as I was concerned.

Anyway, this friend is someone I hold in high esteem and feel very confused by it. I feel as though a viral agent has hijacked the lines of communication to up-sell me this pseudo-heddegerian clap trap. As I have had challenges in my life of late I feel vulnerable. I explained I didn't wish to do it to him, however he says he will call me back and wants me to come up with 10 reasons why not. To be honest I have more difficulties coming up with 10 reasons to DO the course.

Any course that professes to achieve 'authentic' relations with people through group based coercion (something heidegger would have balked at) must be suspect. It totally insults my intelligence.

How do I proceed if I value the friendship of this person?

dont feel bad about being fooled. landmark has programs
for preachers and the preachers are being fooled just like
u were.

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IveGotIt
Part of that is to get you to explain your choices to them. You don't have to do that. Proceed by just saying no. If your friend doesn't "get" that, you may have to let the friend feel bad about it. If you start doing the dance with him, he will keep dancing until he wears you down; so don't dance.

Well put. They are programmed to lead you into the dance, on the razor's edge of sanity.

Exactly. Just don't do the dance!

Hello
I don't think age or status of any kind has anything to do with getting caught in these things. One of the statements made in the old est training exercises was '' Your education won't help you.'' The training sessions were filled to the brim with doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc.
Landmark promises something a lot of people are looking for; answers to make their lives work better.
Your post makes me ask, Why did you tell them you were leaving for California? "Part of manipulating people is to get them to answer to their authority. When you offer ''reasons'' for making you own choices for yourself,
you are beginning to acknowledge by doing so that you may believe they have a right to know, or that you owe them that. How did you get to that point? Think about it. You already know the answer.
They said, "you could always do Landmark when you get back.''
That is what they are trained to do. They don't take know for an answer. In the older est version, they were taught not to use the word ''but.'' So they put opposites together and made statements like; '' Yes I know you can't sign up for the training right now AND when can we expect you to do so. Some call this the hard sell.
You are also right. Giving them details of your life and how you think enables them to manipulate you according to your own direction!
So stop co-operating with their agenda if you don't want to do ''IT."
Best,
IveGotIt