In various posts on this site and other reports, we have read instances where after a person has participated in an LGAT, (Large Group Awareness Training), they have taken their life - suicide.
Refer member "Engine271" comments about his friend's suicide on this thread:
[board.culteducation.com]

It appears that possibly murder is also linked to participation in Landmark Education LGAT courses.

The following article is a report of a court case involving a murder by someone reported to be emotionally stable prior to participating in the Landmark Forum but who suffered a psychotic break after and subsequently shot a mailman dead.
[www.cultnews.com]

This article also refers to another murder of a 13 year old boy by his mother who had participated in the Landmark Forum:
[www.culteducation.com]

There is also mention of a murder in France connected to Landmark Education course participation though not much is known on this board about it at this stage:
[board.culteducation.com]

Oz

I think the main content of LGAT workshop is designed to provoke one's maximum anger. I was asked to shout and scream as much as I could everyday throughout the session. Not only were I instructed to scream "I hate you" repeatedly for a long period of time with my eye closed, but were asked to get involved in a violent situation during an act where the acting father battered the acting mother with a pillow. Then the instructor told me how would I solve the situation. So, I pushed away the acting father, a guy about 6" shorter and 50 lb less then me, and confiscated his pillow. I was raged.

It was a frightening scene for many participants because family violent were not unusual in Chinese family. A mild person could become hot tempered without knowing. After every intensive activity, the instructor would say something soothing to everyone and clam everyone down. She would say that the scence we saw was common to everyone and we had to deal the situation with love. She obviously did not define love very much.

Perhaps one may find temporary enlightment in LGAT. But I believe one's hidden anger, once being skilled provoked, would be very hard to cease. Something would trigger the person to act again, and I am certainly that there would be no love in any violent act.

Hsuchi

Hi Hsuchi,

That's what is so dangerous about these "programs." Most people won't be harmed, but a significant number will be. These are amateurs, untrained and unmonitored, who are engaging in sophisticated psycholgical manipulations. Most of the things they do are recognized by professionals as hypnotic inductions, regressions, Gestalt-type role-playing, confrontational "therapeutic" interactions, and so on. Why there have been so few in the medical community willing to speak out I don't know. If they were doing amateur surgery, they would be tarred and feathered and run out of town pretty quickly. The psychiatric community has been unwilling to take them on, perhaps, in part because there is more art than science in a psychotherapeutic interaction. Still, these scammers answer to no one. They quickly sweep problems under the rug, negotiate "settlements," and buy silence.

Good luck to you, I hope you can help spread the word about how dangerous and evil they are.

Ellen

Hi Hsuchij & Ellen,

Hsuchij - Back in the 70's and 80's there were many mainstream groups and "one on one" psychotherapy sessions that advocated and practiced techniques to raise a person's anger in order to treat it. As you said, people would be given pillows to hit while encouraged to yell and scream.

This practice was abandoned in the 90's due to neurological studies suggesting that a repetitive action of aggression altered the brain's neurological structure in favour of angry and agressive behaviour.

Anger management through this type of therapy actually increased the likelihood of agressive behaviour by shifting the person's disposition towards violence.

As this type of therapy was practiced in your LGAT and was also in mine, Ellen's point of unqualified trainers practicing outdated psychotherapy techniques should raise the eyebrows of the psychiatric / psychology professionals.

I would be interested to know of such anger management/awareness techniques being practiced in Landmark Education.

Can we keep this thread on the subject of Landmark Education suicide and homicide incidents and their causes. The issues raised so far are on topic.

Oz

Can Landmark drive someong to murder? I believe it can, It can tear a persons self esteem and belief down to a point where you follow only the Landmark technology and distinctions. You become argumentative and confrontative if someone disagrees with Landmarks/your own views.

I put the Landmark/Your own views with a slash in it because your own views are meshed firmly to Landmarks.

Landmark Forum leaders can be brutal, humiliating and forceful in front of all the other participants. If you do not agree or follow their way of thinking you are "uncoachable"

If you are firmly entrenched in the company as a volunteer, a Landmark forum introduction leader or in one of their senior training programmes you will be "coached" until you break.

I have not been involved with Landmark Edcuation for over a year now and still feel the effect it has had on my life. Now I see the true effect. When I initally did the Landmark Forum I was a happy clappy brainwashed graduate. As I got involved further I was broken and by this I am not referring to their "breakthrough" technology.

I was a staff member in one of their offices for 18 months and when I resigned It took several resignation letters and arguments with my direct manager. I left with my self esteem in shatters, with most of my pre-landmark friendships/relationships in tatters. With in two months of leaving Landmark I was suicidal. My current work provided me with psychological counselling.

Prior to taking landmark I was sucessful, I enjoyed my life. I had lots of friends, was moving forward in my chosen career.

Quote
sonnie_dee
Can Landmark drive someong to murder? I believe it can, It can tear a persons self esteem and belief down to a point where you follow only the Landmark technology and distinctions. You become argumentative and confrontative if someone disagrees with Landmarks/your own views.

I put the Landmark/Your own views with a slash in it because your own views are meshed firmly to Landmarks.

Landmark Forum leaders can be brutal, humiliating and forceful in front of all the other participants. If you do not agree or follow their way of thinking you are "uncoachable"

If you are firmly entrenched in the company as a volunteer, a Landmark forum introduction leader or in one of their senior training programmes you will be "coached" until you break.

I have not been involved with Landmark Edcuation for over a year now and still feel the effect it has had on my life. Now I see the true effect. When I initally did the Landmark Forum I was a happy clappy brainwashed graduate. As I got involved further I was broken and by this I am not referring to their "breakthrough" technology.

I was a staff member in one of their offices for 18 months and when I resigned It took several resignation letters and arguments with my direct manager. I left with my self esteem in shatters, with most of my pre-landmark friendships/relationships in tatters. With in two months of leaving Landmark I was suicidal. My current work provided me with psychological counselling.

Prior to taking landmark I was sucessful, I enjoyed my life. I had lots of friends, was moving forward in my chosen career.

Please consider writing the whole thing down, even if you don't want to post it publically. There have been a couple of staff members who used to post here but they haven't been heard from in a while. It's too bad that one of them "nuked" all his posts, because they were excellent. You can still pull up "Guy's" though. You might find them illuminating. Some of us have been "cult-watching" for a very long time and have heard variations of what you've written a thousand times. More than anything else, what defines a "cult" is exploitation and abuse. Though the "LGATs" may not be in the same league, their type of manipulation can be deadly as well.

Welcome, by the way.


Ellen

Thanks for the Welcome Elena,

I have been writing some of my experiences down, at the suggestion of the counsellor I was seeing. It is scary to recognise the manipulations now that I can see them (well some of them anyway) where as previously I just considered it coaching or my inauthenticity or what ever else technology was drummed into me.

I was involved with Landmark for several years. Initially doing the Landmark Forum then assisting while doing the LFIA Seminar and Advanced course. Even writing down my experiece before I was a paid staff member has been helpful.

Maybe one day I will post it so others can learn but for now Its too much. I have been reading the different posts on this site and was actually sent here by a very good friend who thankfully has never attended the LF and has put up with pretty hard selling and pushing and manipulation on my part to get them there.

Paid staff experience coaching and training at a level beyond what paying participants or voluteer assistants do. You are pushed and pushed and pushed until you break. You are shouted at, set up to fail and when you do fail you are "coached" about making it your responsibility until you have a break through.

I now believe that these break throughs are literally just breaking apart your self image.

Quote
sonnie_dee
Thanks for the Welcome Elena,

I have been writing some of my experiences down, at the suggestion of the counsellor I was seeing. It is scary to recognise the manipulations now that I can see them (well some of them anyway) where as previously I just considered it coaching or my inauthenticity or what ever else technology was drummed into me.

I was involved with Landmark for several years. Initially doing the Landmark Forum then assisting while doing the LFIA Seminar and Advanced course. Even writing down my experiece before I was a paid staff member has been helpful.

Maybe one day I will post it so others can learn but for now Its too much. I have been reading the different posts on this site and was actually sent here by a very good friend who thankfully has never attended the LF and has put up with pretty hard selling and pushing and manipulation on my part to get them there.

Paid staff experience coaching and training at a level beyond what paying participants or voluteer assistants do. You are pushed and pushed and pushed until you break. You are shouted at, set up to fail and when you do fail you are "coached" about making it your responsibility until you have a break through.

I now believe that these break throughs are literally just breaking apart your self image.

I hope your counsellor is familiar with cults and cult mind-control. Many have no idea how it works and are unaware of the damage that cults or "LGATs" can do. Some don't even think it exists. It - cult mind-control - is like some poor second-cousin in the fields of the study of human exploitation, even though it is probably the most destructive in many ways, probably because so many of our institutions and organisations use the same tactics, though to a lesser degree, through advertising and propaganda. Sometimes looking at the ways advertisers and propagandists achieve their goals is a good way to get a picture of what is going on in programs like Landmark; the emotional manipulation, trance induction, "framing" or dictating "context," sotto voce or subliminal suggestion, repetition, distraction, desensitization, appeals to authority, pressure/release or "good cop/bad cop," etc., etc. Also, looking at a different cult from the one in which you have been enmeshed can be a real eye-opener. The people who design these "programs" are ruthless operatives. They want your mind, knowing they will get your time and your labor in the bargain. If you feel really, really bad after they've "handled" you, and you are "bonded" to them because you've confided your most intimate secrets, you will work very hard to try to feel better doing whatever they tell you to do. It is mental enslavement. There is a large amount of scholarly material here and on the AFF website. Also Wellspring offers counselling and treatment specifically for those harmed by cults. Many have described a type of "post-traumatic stress disorder" and the residuall effects can be similar.

Are you in touch with any other former employees or "apostates?" The best "deprogrammers" are often people who were in the same cult. (They will probably use extreme measures to try to get you to come back, hounding and calling you all hours of the day and night, sending whoever was your best friend in the cult, attempting to draw you back in with "love-bombing," etc.)


Ellen

Hi, Sonnie, and welcome to the group. I'm sorry to hear about your Landmark experience. I have a friend who's currently pretty heavily involved in Landmark.

I've heard and read that it sometimes helps to read up on as much information as you can (as much as you can handle, of course; healing is the most important thing right now). Past LGAT participants have felt the Lifespring study was helpful in understanding some of the psychological tactics used at Landmark:

[www.culteducation.com]

You may also want to look at the "coping" section here:

[culteducation.com]

I agree with Ellen that it's important your counselor understand the tactics used by cultic groups, in order to help you understand what's happened and begin healing. It's also important not to feel guily about pressuring your friend to try Landmark.

Please let us know if there's anything we can help with or anyinformation we can point you to.

Glam

Sonnie,

As I've been warned on other forums (no pun intended!), I pass on to you to please be careful to keep your identity as secret as you can. LE may be watching. They are said to troll the Internet and institute smear campaigns and lawsuits like they claim Scientology did to Werner. Especially against insiders such as you and me.

Does anyone have any stories about that? I'm getting nervous.