Whilst exploring the world of twitter I came across this link posted by one of the LEC drones from Atlanta [reinvent.landmarkeducation.com]

Looks like they're trying to reinvent their cult. I wonder why this is? Could it be because they are realising that what they teach is NOT the ABSOLUTE TRUTH! Not even close!

Perhaps the bits of good left in all the drones are causing them to become unhappy with the number of people "choosing" to suffer psychological problems after being "educated".

All graduates are allowed to comment. It's quite tempting!

Interesting. We've previously had discussion on whether preparations are being made for the return (or legacy polishing) of Werner Erhard.

John

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ExLand
Whilst exploring the world of twitter I came across this link posted by one of the LEC drones from Atlanta [reinvent.landmarkeducation.com]

Looks like they're trying to reinvent their cult. I wonder why this is? Could it be because they are realising that what they teach is NOT the ABSOLUTE TRUTH! Not even close!

Perhaps the bits of good left in all the drones are causing them to become unhappy with the number of people "choosing" to suffer psychological problems after being "educated".

All graduates are allowed to comment. It's quite tempting!

Hi ExLand, I assume you were an active Landmark participant at one time.


I'm not sure what that website means. It's got no links, and it's not apparantly accesible by click or search from the main landmark site. It appears to be a backdoor web page and it's probably not been visited by much web traffic.


I'd be interested to discuss landmark with you / your experiences, etc. I took the course recently and I didn't find it as bad as I expected. I also took the advanced course. While I certainly don't believe that Landmark has all the answers (not even close), I found both courses interesting and more fun and more emotionally involved than I expected. I also found that the "Do not use the bathroom except on breaks" was highly overstated.

But I have no problems with people who dislike it. It's very much a personal choice and there are many valid reasons to dislike the landmark form.

After numerous expose's, the bathroom thing is something they would have to make a concession on by now. If they don't want to look obviously bad.

John

Hi Amhebera

I did the landmark forum in Nov last year. I 'got it' on the Saturday morning of the seminar. On the Sunday evening after the 'empty and meaningless' bit I started decompensating. I ended up suffering from psychosis, and had a complete mental breakdown. During the psychosis I had a car accident and was hospitalised for two nights. I was sedated for another 2 days after the last night in high care in hospital and ended up in a psychiatric clinic for another nine days. The dellusions continued for another two months after I was released. I have since researched landmark and the techniques it uses. Basically I have discovered that they use a variety of psychological manipulation methods, these include covert hypnosis, neuro-linguistic programming, cognitive dissonance, and thought reform. What they do is dangerous, and they offer no professional help or advice for people who attend there seminars and suffer ill effects such as myself. I believe that what they do is criminal. All they are interested in is getting more money from unsuspecting victims.

Exland

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Amhebera

But I have no problems with people who dislike it. It's very much a personal choice and there are many valid reasons to dislike the landmark form.

I would like to suggest to you that you re-examine your thought here concerning what exactly constitutes a "choice" and how the concept of "choice" is both elemental to Landmark's cult-type programming and the real key that unlocks the door of their peculiar brand of mind control entrapment.

L. Ron Hubbard got the ball rolling with his scientological nonsense about "choice point," which is what Werner Erhard plucked for his own cult.

A good place to start would be this article:

"FREE WILL, OR THOUGHT CONTROL?;
WERE THE DEATHS OF HEAVEN'S GATE MEMBERS THE RESULT OF BRAINWASHING? THE DEBATE REFLECTS LARGER CULTURAL QUESTIONS ABOUT THE ROLE OF CHOICE AND THE ISSUE OF VICTIMIZATION."

[www.histarch.uiuc.edu]



Ellen

Quote
ExLand
Hi Amhebera

I did the landmark forum in Nov last year. I 'got it' on the Saturday morning of the seminar. On the Sunday evening after the 'empty and meaningless' bit I started decompensating. I ended up suffering from psychosis, and had a complete mental breakdown. During the psychosis I had a car accident and was hospitalised for two nights. I was sedated for another 2 days after the last night in high care in hospital and ended up in a psychiatric clinic for another nine days. The dellusions continued for another two months after I was released. I have since researched landmark and the techniques it uses. Basically I have discovered that they use a variety of psychological manipulation methods, these include covert hypnosis, neuro-linguistic programming, cognitive dissonance, and thought reform. What they do is dangerous, and they offer no professional help or advice for people who attend there seminars and suffer ill effects such as myself. I believe that what they do is criminal. All they are interested in is getting more money from unsuspecting victims.

Exland

Hi Exland,

I'm sorry to hear your story. It sounds intense. Have you considered pursuing legal action? You might have a case, considering this was relativly recent and you can document a series of events. I realize that there's probably all these agreements they have people sign that "you take full responsibility" blah blah, but that kind of agreement isn't iron clad. You can clearly state that the long hours and unexpected results led to suffering and you may be able to make a case. I'm honestly not sure how legal stuff works, but you might consider looking into it.

I also agree with you that Landmark is dangerous and that they offer no professional help or advice.

And, I can certainly understand how the "empty and meaningless" talk can have a negative effect on somebody. It wasn't one of the parts of the weekend that I enjoyed, but the person I sat next to had her "pop" when we discussed that and she and I are still friends.

I'm curious led you to sign up. Did you have a friend ask you to do it, or something else?



On a personal note, I may as well tell you that my experience at the weekend was still a positive one, and the general feeling I got was that many people there had a fun weekend, but I don't think that everyone did.

To me, the question that runs through my head, and the reason I came to this thread is simply this. I don't know if "landmark is helpful" or is it just a rush of experiences that one could get taking extacy. To me, that's the question.

I personally don't regret the $440 I spent on that weekend. I took it as a kind of supplemental experience. I'd been involved in a cult that was more intense and demanding than landmark many years ago, which. Like many cults, the one I'd been involved in had both good and bad sales points.

But my having had that experience of being involved in something deeply and even being brainwashed in my early 20s, I didn't find landmark to be that pressurized, difficult or new. It was in fact, more interesting and more professional than I anticiapted. I'm sure many here will take exception to that, but it was just my experience. There was pressure, salesmanship, psychobabble - all that silly stuff, but overall, having been told horror stories about Landmark, my experience was that it was fun.


and I appologize to you if this seems insensitive. It's not my wish to be rude or insensitive. Just to have discussion.

Amhebera:

"Fun"?

You seem to be here as an apologist.

Landmark has a long history of complaints, personal injury lawsuits and labor violations.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Erhard, the man that put together EST/Landmar/Forum, has been repeatedly discredited.

It is a privately owned for-profit company that has hurt many people.

LGATs like Landmark generally have a bad history.

I'm not sure what an apologist is, but, I assure you that my only interest here is discussion.

My "apologist" thoughts exactly.

John