I think Esalen is the link to most of these people.
Bucky Fuller never had any money, so he took all sorts of teaching appointments all over the place.
He was at Esalen a number of times.
(halfway down)
[www.esalen.org]

[www.google.com]

Also, i THINK that article stated that all the money from the Bucky and Werner seminar was going to go to Bucky, right?
Like i said, Bucky always needed money just to pay his bills, so that could have been the motivation.

Lots of stupid stuff came out of the 60's.
I think these guys like Bucky as 99% of people would have NO IDEA of what the hell he was talking about.

Coz

PS: here is a good link i found with lots of links to some of Bucky's REAL ideas.
[www.disinfo.com]

It looks like Werner Erhard had some links with Esalen.

[www.google.com]

I have to do a bit of a mea culpa on the Bucky Fuller and Werner Erhard connection.
I just really didn't know that much about it, and i still don't.
I found this link though.
[www.cjfearnley.com]

There are some ugly things about Bucky, no question.
But personally, i have just read his books, and i found them to very unique, and very interesting.
Carl Sagan was also a bit of a troubled man, but i still enjoy his writings on Skepticism.

It could be that Bucky was so full of his own ideas, that he just ignored whatever Erhard was blabbering on about. That would be my gut feeling. Bucky was a One Mind kind of manic genius type...HIS mind.

Also, back then, i don't think the "est" shit had hit the fan yet?
Regardless, from my point of view, Bucky's ideas have nothing to do with est, or anything like that. It reminds me of all these new-age ninnies who take ideas from "Quantum Physics" and turn them into bogus New-Age ideas, that have NOTHING to do with what the great physicist Werner Heisenberg (or whoever) was talking about.
(actually, didn't Erhard take his name from Heisenberg?)
[www.aip.org]
[nobelprize.org]

But it is interesting to explore the connections of these things, and dig up facts.
But it reminds of when Einstein said he didn't know if the universe was infinite, but he was certain human stupidity was.

Coz

I just saw this guy named Darren Weeks on a financial TV news show, talking about how he has franchised RichDad's cashflow game.
[www.fasttracktocashflow.com]

What is totally pathetic, is that the "journalists" are so credulous, and have done NO RESEARCH, and they don't ask these guys ANY tough questions.
The journalists are like mindless talking heads.
Why not have a robot ask lame questions?

This is how these scammers can get away with so much.
The media just gives them a free ride, and lets them get free advertising, without doing any research, or asking any tough questions.
What the hell do these people learn in journalism school? Nothing? Its truly pathetic.

Coz

Quote
Cosmophilospher
I have to do a bit of a mea culpa on the Bucky Fuller and Werner Erhard connection.
I just really didn't know that much about it, and i still don't.
I found this link though.
[www.cjfearnley.com]

There are some ugly things about Bucky, no question.
But personally, i have just read his books, and i found them to very unique, and very interesting.
Carl Sagan was also a bit of a troubled man, but i still enjoy his writings on Skepticism.

It could be that Bucky was so full of his own ideas, that he just ignored whatever Erhard was blabbering on about. That would be my gut feeling. Bucky was a One Mind kind of manic genius type...HIS mind.

Also, back then, i don't think the "est" shit had hit the fan yet?
Regardless, from my point of view, Bucky's ideas have nothing to do with est, or anything like that. It reminds me of all these new-age ninnies who take ideas from "Quantum Physics" and turn them into bogus New-Age ideas, that have NOTHING to do with what the great physicist Werner Heisenberg (or whoever) was talking about.
(actually, didn't Erhard take his name from Heisenberg?)
[www.aip.org]
[nobelprize.org]

But it is interesting to explore the connections of these things, and dig up facts.
But it reminds of when Einstein said he didn't know if the universe was infinite, but he was certain human stupidity was.

Coz

Hi Coz,

Werner liked to glom onto anything or anyone who would give his idiotic "creation" some status or credibility. He fooled a number of "celebrities," scholars, and journalists as well as the thousands of gullible followers. There's an account of the connection in Steven Pressman's "Outrageous Betrayal."


Ellen

Elena, is there some link to this?

Quote
SL1993
Elena, is there some link to this?

Do you mean the connection between Buckminster Fuller and Werner Erhard? Try going to Amazon and doing a search. You can read a couple of pages that way.


Ellen

Hello Concerned Oz and Everyone,

Finally I came across this forum and felt relieved there's someone whose done 'Money and You' and not saying its was the best thing that ever happened to them.

[u:fafcece9b2][b:fafcece9b2] Money and You Created Disaster in My Life too!.... It Made My Life Worse![/b:fafcece9b2].[/u:fafcece9b2]

I did Money and You with the Austin Texas Presenter [b:fafcece9b2]Wayne Morgan[/b:fafcece9b2], after reading Robert Kiyosaki's first book [b:fafcece9b2]'If You Want to be Rich and Happy Don't Go [/b:fafcece9b2][b:fafcece9b2]to School?[/b:fafcece9b2]' in 1993.

I had two psychological and emotional breakdowns during the LGAT. One during the 'blocks game' and the other on Sunday morning. Listening to [b:fafcece9b2]Pachebel Canon [/b:fafcece9b2]and the[b:fafcece9b2] theme [/b:fafcece9b2]from [b:fafcece9b2]The[/b:fafcece9b2] [b:fafcece9b2]Young and the Restless[/b:fafcece9b2] played for the entire 5-6 hours was enough to send the sane loopy. Twelve years later I still can't listen to these 2 pieces of music.

It really hurts reading the conversation between Robert Kiyosaki and reporter of the [b:fafcece9b2]ABC Four Corners Expose (on Robert Kiyosaki and the unethical methods used in Money & You)[/b:fafcece9b2] because [b:fafcece9b2]'my brain did turn to mush' [/b:fafcece9b2]as Kiyosaki gloated, on the Sunday of the LGAT. Yes I did believe anything and everthing they told me.

I was told by Money and You assistants that my breakdown was a 'sponny' i.e. Spontaneous Rebirth. A Pandora's Box had opened. I was deeply traumatised, shocked, confused and devastated. After my ordeal, I sat outside trying to make sense of what happened, as it was lunch time. I removed my watch from my pocket (as you recall we weren't allowed to wear watches for the entire 3 1/2 days) and I was stunned to discover it was 4 pm. Talk about having a 'missing time' experience! Classic effects of hypnosis!!

The rest of my LGAT was a complete haze. I recall very little of the lecture and all the games. My LGAT was one [b:fafcece9b2]BIG CONFUSING BLUR[/b:fafcece9b2]. For years I thought there was something wrong with me because I didn't 'get it' and everyone was still 'applauding' the seminar. Even my notes and copies of flip charts didn't make sense. [b:fafcece9b2]I had done Money and You to learn how to be a millionaire, not to have my entire life shattered and spend the next dozen years picking up the pieces[/b:fafcece9b2]!

I thought I was going [b:fafcece9b2]CRAZY!! [/b:fafcece9b2]One of the assistants introduced me to another assistant/rebirther, who laughed at me saying,

"You're not going crazy!' while handing me her business card.

I was given many other 'business cards' that afternoon, and so a roller coaster of New Age therapies, recommended by Wayne Morgan, began.

[b:fafcece9b2]I was a VICTIM. We ALL were![/b:fafcece9b2]

I spent $10,000 in the next 18 months doing Rebirthing, Past Life Therapy, Auditing (Emeter 'Excalibur Program' used in Scientology), massage, bodywork, retreats, more LGAT's promoted by the franchise group i.e. Robert Kiyosaki's and et al, assisting at Money and You and recruiting clients for them i.e. telephone canvassing at their offices. These therapies were supposed to help me piece my life back together - aiming to be COMPLETE. Instead it created more[b:fafcece9b2] havoc[/b:fafcece9b2] and [b:fafcece9b2]questions [/b:fafcece9b2]some still [b:fafcece9b2]unanswered[/b:fafcece9b2]. Dissociating and living in a fantasy world of the 'invisible'.

I have much more to write about my experience with Money and You, [b:fafcece9b2]Kiyosaki [/b:fafcece9b2]and [b:fafcece9b2]Morgan.[/b:fafcece9b2] If it still didn't hurt so much I wouldn't be on this silte. I was still in a fog for a decade or so, thinking the seminar was great and I was difficient. It wasn't until I got caught up with another cult, i.e. I still thought I needed a MASTER to teach me how to be RICH and work for him for FREE (taught in my LGAT), that I realised I was still being [b:fafcece9b2]'controlled and manipulated' [/b:fafcece9b2]by the effects of the [b:fafcece9b2]mind control[/b:fafcece9b2] and [b:fafcece9b2]thought reform techniques [/b:fafcece9b2]used in Money and You many years prior.

Will write later.

Wiser Aussie

HI and welcome Wiser Aussie,

Thanks for mentioning Wayne Morgan. I forgot his name. He led my LGAT Money and You too and Kiyosaki led the other two courses i did. i recall we all wanted to be like Wayne. Some of us for years also picked up his Texas accent slighty which i have written about last year in this thread.

I fogot about no watches during the course and i also can't manage to hear those two pieces of music played during the blocks game.

I hope to hear more from you,
Oz

[u:775ea1316d][b:775ea1316d]POWERFUL PRESENTATIONS - ROBERT KIYOSAKI & EXCELLERATED BUSINESS SCHOOLS SEMINAR[/b:775ea1316d][/u:775ea1316d]


Like I mentioned I did Money and You with Wayne Morgan as well as Creating Wealth. Finally met Kiyosaki in [b:775ea1316d]Powerful Presentations.[/b:775ea1316d] Originally saw him on the The Midday Show back in 1993 hosted by Ray Martin when he was promoting "[b:775ea1316d]If You Want to be Rich and Happy Don't [/b:775ea1316d][b:775ea1316d]go to School?". [/b:775ea1316d]I thought he was great back then. His 'rags to riches' story inspired me. The last 80 pages of his book he heavily promoted [b:775ea1316d]Money and You [/b:775ea1316d]and [b:775ea1316d]Excellerated Business Schools[/b:775ea1316d] and for the readers convenience a tear out voucher with a Melbourne address. Needless to say I wrote away for more info, they passed on my details to the franchise group, went to a Information Session and the rest is history.

When I actually met Robert Kiyosaki at Powerful Presentations he would rave on,

[b:775ea1316d] "Wearing these shoes is soooooooo spiritual!" [/b:775ea1316d] boasting they cost him $600.

He called his wife Kim from the back of the room to the front stage and asked her to remove her Rolex watch. Robert Kiyosaki gave it to a lady in the audience to hold and wear for awhile so she would 'get' [b:775ea1316d]how spiritual it [/b:775ea1316d][b:775ea1316d]was to have something expensive[/b:775ea1316d]. At the end of one of the processes he instructed us all to find 3 people in the room to hug. As I made my way over to him he was absolutely 'intimidated', to my surprise. Obviously I'd cornered him. However, my intention was geniune. So I couldn't understand his reaction. I thanked him for writing his book. He gave me a relieved pseudo smile as I walked away to find 2 other people. He certainly wasn't what I expected. As the LGAT progressed I realised I didn't like the man, but pushed it aside.

As for wanting to be like [b:775ea1316d]Wayne Morgan [/b:775ea1316d]that happened to all of us too. In the fact alot of the women were really attracted to him.

Only read the first 2 chapters of 'Rich Dad, Poor Dad' and couldn't get any further with it.

By the way, [b:775ea1316d]Money and You [/b:775ea1316d]Graduates [b:775ea1316d]Suzi Dafnis "Pow Wow [/b:775ea1316d][b:775ea1316d]Events"[/b:775ea1316d] and [b:775ea1316d]John Stamoulos "John Stamoulos International" [/b:775ea1316d]are current 'promoters' of the LGAT held in Kuala Lumpur Malaysia.

In the Excellerated Business Schools site its interesting to note their [b:775ea1316d]'Partial Client[/b:775ea1316d] [b:775ea1316d]Worldwide List'[/b:775ea1316d] - [b:775ea1316d]Est Organisation[/b:775ea1316d],[b:775ea1316d] Loving Relationships [/b:775ea1316d](i.e. Rebirth Based group) and [b:775ea1316d]Victorian Government [/b:775ea1316d]on the list.

Wiser Aussie