To be totally unafraid of Landmark
Posted by: nettie ()
Date: May 17, 2008 04:00PM

In the last couple of days I have been in contact with Landmark's legal counsel on 2 occasions. He has been acting very nice. I tried to call him up right after the Randy video I made. I asked him to call back which he did the next day. I asked him to send all documents I have signed that are in their possesion. He called me back yesterday and said he had located them in storage in London - he will call me back on Wenesday to get my address where to send these documents.

The documents that I have signed will never stand up in a court of law.

My pulse went up a little when he called me up the first time but the second time I was really relaxed.

I now that landmark cannot get me in any way.

First of all they cannot sue me - I have just stated my case. They now that I can talk their talk. The prgramming has worn off so they cannot scare me with law suits or anything.

I am open to having a meeting with landmark where we can discuss the "thing". I would not hesitate to meet with as many forum leaders and staff as they like. They will probably not invite me becasue they know that i will give me an opportunity to wreak some havoc.

So people - don't be scared of landmark - they are "whiny little bitches" as ziggy calles me on youtube.

If you want me to get your documents from landmark please pm me and I will talk to Art Schreiber. Let us give him something to spend his time on :-)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2008 04:02PM by nettie.

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Re: To be totally unafraid of Landmark
Posted by: Hope ()
Date: May 17, 2008 08:02PM

I was completely surprised how easy it was to get a full refund, including the nonrefundable deposite, for the LF. At first, they ignored my phone calls, so I just kept calling. The representatives then started leaving messages at times I was not at home, so we played a little phone tag. I called them on it and mentioned something about their integrity. When Indira called me back (she's a FL), she was clearly aggravated, didn't give me a chance to speak, but said "So, you want a refund? It will arrive in the mail shortly." Click. I received a full refund. THe check stub was framed and hanging in my bathroom for a while. I've since discarded them altogether.

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Re: To be totally unafraid of Landmark, Art Schreiber, EFF
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: May 17, 2008 11:35PM

So is Art Schreiber still trying to intimidate citizens on the orders of Landmark Education?

Does Landmark not have anything better to do than try to intimidate people, behaving like some deranged "cult"? Is that how Landmark wants to be seen by the public?
So that is what Landmark Education stands for?
To be a coward and be afraid of Free Speech and criticism?
They really are a pathetic and disgusting organization. One of the worst. They prove it by their own abusive behavior, completely lacking in "Integrity".

Landmark has already ruined the global reputation of Landmark Education by their pathetic and outrageous actions against citizens.
Art Schreiber's tactics destroyed what was left of Landmark Education's worldwide reputation only last year, when he tried to attack another internet critic about the video from France 3, Inside The Landmark Forum. (Voyage au pays des nouveaux gourous)


they even failed to get a Wikipedia article removed and totally censored about the documentary.

Their failed attempt at suppression of free speech and news, gained worldwide attention with stories by Reuters, and made Landmark Education a worldwide laughingstock in their attempts to silence free speech.
It also showed what a morally corrupt organization Landmark is.

Make certain to immediately contact the EFF, The Electronic Freedom Foundation, so they can open up their files on Landmark Education again.

Landmark and the Internet Archive | Electronic Frontier Foundation

Also, notice that Landmark tried to attack this website, and they lost there as well.

The tried to suppress the french video, which is chronicled in many threads here.

Landmark and litigation re: France 3 video - false claims

Landmark followers, you should be ASHAMED of the cowards that run Landmark Education.
They are a complete DISGRACE, they are cowards afraid of Free Speech, news reporting, and open debate.
They are probably the most hypocritical organization out there.
Completely lacking in even one shred of "Integrity".

(the EFF website seems to be down, here is the Google cache link)

Electronic Frontier Foundation
Related Issues: Free Speech, Intellectual Property, IP and Free Speech
Landmark and the Internet Archive

In 2004, a documentary film about the activities of Landmark Education, also known as the Landmark Forum or The Forum, was broadcast on French television. The film, entitled Voyage Au Pays Des Nouveaux Gourous (Voyage to the Land of the New Gurus), was produced by the French news program Pièces à Conviction.

San Francisco-based Landmark Education, known for its Landmark Forum motivational workshops, describes itself as "a global educational enterprise offering The Landmark Forum and graduate courses," claiming that "[m]ore than 160,000 people participate in Landmark's courses each year."

The documentary is critical of the Landmark program, and includes hidden camera footage from inside a Landmark Forum event in France, as well as within the Landmark offices in France. It also includes a panel discussion with the host, and interviews with a variety of people regarding whether or not Landmark is a cult. According to Landmark, the "broadcasting of this program had disastrous consequences and resulted in considerable damage to Landmark Education's subsidiary operating the France."

Landmark's Misuse of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act
The video was posted on several websites, including the Internet Archive, YouTube and Google. In October 2006, Landmark Education started to send threatening cease and desist letters to online service providers who hosted the material. In addition to disputing the truth of the documentary program's allegations, Landmark Education claimed the French documentary infringed its own U.S. copyright in the "Landmark forum leaders manual" (Copyright Reg. No. TXu-1-120-461).

Using the copyright allegation as a pretext, Landmark then issued subpoenas pursuant to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which allows content owners to issue subpoenas to identify alleged infringers even without filing a lawsuit. Subpoenas were sent to Google Video, YouTube and the Internet Archive, demanding to find the identity of the uploader(s).

A review of the video makes clear that the documentary does not contain a copy of the leader manual referenced in Landmark's letters. Rather, it is a news documentary critical of the Landmark organization in France. Moreover, even if Landmark's copyrighted works were visible in the documentary, any such limited and transformative use of a copyrighted work for purpose of criticism, commentary and news reporting is self-evidently fair use and, therefore, noninfringing.

Landmark is not seeking to identify those who originally made the documentary, since it already knows who made it. Nor are the subpoenas based upon the defamation claims Landmark's letter asserts -- DMCA subpoenas are only authorized to identify alleged infringers of the sender's copyright. They are not, however, designed to allow content owners to identify their critics, as Landmark is attempting to do here.

EFF Responds
Landmark's efforts are being challenged on multiple fronts. The Internet Archive is fighting its subpoena, and EFF filed official objections on its behalf. EFF will also file a motion to quash the subpoena issued to Google Video, on behalf of the anonymous speaker who uploaded the video. Google has advised Landmark that it will not produce the requested information pending a ruling on that motion. YouTube sent notification to the user about its subpoena, and is giving the user a reasonable opportunity to move to quash it.

Update: EFF is currently in discussions with Landmark regarding a resolution of it subpoena to Google. In the interim, EFF has held off on filing the motion to quash. A draft of the motion, which explains our legal arguments, is linked below.

Update 2: In a settlement reached November 29, 2006, Landmark agreed to withdraw the subpoena to Google and end its quest to pierce the anonymity of the video's poster. Landmark has also withdrawn its subpoena to the Internet Archive. See our Press Release for details.

November 29, 2006 Statement of Anonymous Poster John Doe[PDF, 82.20 KB]
November 28, 2006 Letter confirming subpoena withdrawal[PDF, 42.62 KB]
Settlement agreement between Landmark Education and John Doe[PDF, 293.25 KB]
Settlement agreement between Landmark Education and John Doe[PDF, 293.25 KB]
November 13, 2006 Cease & Desist Letter from Landmark to StudioSolutions[PDF, 249.01 KB]
November 8, 2006 Draft Motion to Quash Landmark Subpoena[PDF, 260.84 KB]
October 27, 2006 Internet Archive's Objections to Landmark Subpoena[PDF, 479.76 KB]
October 13, 2006 Landmark's DMCA Subpoena to Google[PDF, 1.18 MB]
October 6, 2006 Landmark's DMCA Subpoena to the Internet Archive[PDF, 757.15 KB]
Landmark's Letter to Google[PDF, 947.25 KB]
Landmark's Letter to the Internet Archive[PDF, 135.77 KB]

Deeplinks Posts
November 09, 2006 EFF and Landmark: Cards on the Table
October 30, 2006 DMCA Subpoenas Should Not Be Abused to Silence Speech
Other Resources
Landmark Education official site[]
Transcript of the Voyage Au Pays Des Nouveaux program[]
Video of the Voyage Au Pays Des Nouveaux program[]
Wikipedia entry on the Documentary[]

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Re: To be totally unafraid of Landmark
Posted by: John Fox ()
Date: May 21, 2008 06:51PM

Don't be too afraid of Landmark Education. They have a lot to fear from the legal discovery process.


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Re: To be totally unafraid of Landmark
Posted by: caligari ()
Date: May 22, 2008 12:03AM

It looks like Landmark has so far found it ineffective and counter productive to harass it's critics on YouTube. So they've been releasing promotional videos under the TMLP (Landmark Education's Team Management and Leadership) heading:


Werner's view of people is simple, he sees them as "machines" or wants to them to act like machines. That is supposed to be the turning point and enlightenment of the est Training/LE Forum, that you're just a machine. This is possible in a controlled environment where hypnotic methods are used to lead a group toward such a "realization". Then other activities lead people to be act and be controlled as machines. This is good news if you either want to control people like machines, or want to give up your identity to be controlled by others. But, most people want to freedom, to think for themselves, and lead their own lives. So, a veneer of attractive ideas is spun of "transformation", "creating out of nothing", "being cause", etc. is spun. This false veneer is only possible in the controlled environment of seminars where inflated and often false testimonials and hypnotic methods are employed to bring back the veneer.

But, take it to the uncontrolled, open light of open online media like YouTube, and the harassment and silliness of the ideas become apparent. So, yes, be very unafraid. My recommendation, is be aware of the hot buttons LE will use to counter, like the terms "cult" and "brainwashing". They can not be directly proven (in the term of "cult") and are not clearly defined and applicable ("brainwashing"). But, pointing out the direct practices of harassment, stifling criticism, hypnotic techniques, etc. is clearly visible.

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Re: To be totally unafraid of Landmark
Posted by: nettie ()
Date: May 22, 2008 08:02AM

actually landmark knows that I make up my own reality - therefore they cannot tell me not to use the word cult. Everytime they tell people that they are not a cult they are actually saying that they are. I would love to have a debate with them about that. Because they know that they are "creating a listening" about them that implies they are a cult every time they say "No - landmark is NOT a cult". The subconcious mind hear the word cult.

So let us say they sue me for using the word cult. That would only make them seem more cultish.

So I can freely say anything. It is not defamation. It is free speech.

If landmark was not a cult they would offer their socalled education to the general public. They don't. They say it is not for everyone - it is for people that are well.

Landmark's days are over but it will be a long time before the humans on this planet stop falling for the likes of landmark. Cults are everywhere - they recruit young people that have no idea about what happens to them.

Oh man! I am tired...but not too tired to keep up fighting.

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Re: To be totally unafraid of Landmark
Posted by: Sulalee ()
Date: May 22, 2008 10:14AM

Nettie, you write that Landmark's days are numbered! That is like music to my ears. We're all coming to Sweden for the funeral. Actually it's going to be the party of the century when it happens. Keep it up friend! Free speech is Landmark's deathbed.

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Re: To be totally unafraid of Landmark
Posted by: nettie ()
Date: May 26, 2008 11:58AM

Nettie, you write that Landmark's days are numbered! That is like music to my ears. We're all coming to Sweden for the funeral. Actually it's going to be the party of the century when it happens. Keep it up friend! Free speech is Landmark's deathbed.

it will take some time but my feeling is that I will live to see that day - we need to collect enough disgruntled ex-landmarkers and then one day we will sue their ass royally. We will hit them with a lawsuit that will make them bankrupt. I would love to be in court with little whiny Art Schreiber and his followers :-)

My legal team will probably be Whinnie the Pooh, Pippi Longstocking, Emil the terrible, Bamse the worlds strongest bear, the Matrix guys and my favourite actor Gene Hackman. Gene Hackman seems like such a goodnatured person. I love him in every film - even when he is the bad guy. Maybe he has brainwashed me?

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