I know someone who is addicted to the landmark forum. They have taken a load of the courses and have been in the forum for at least 2 years. Most of their friends are from the forum and they have even inducted some that are not. I first got suspicious when she told me that I would find the answer to all my problems after completion of the forum. Also she has let their job slide as she wants to become a leader of the forum, so in the next few months she will probably become jobless and will be paying out for forum courses. She has started to lie to her friends about how she is spending her time (I know this as she invited me to an introduction on the same weekend that they were supposed to be busy doing something else).

At the moment this person will not speak to me as I laughed at her involvement with the forum and their set up (measuring the spaces between chairs etc). I told her that I did not believe that I could not get anything from the forum that I could not pick up from a good set of psychology or philosophy books.

Apart from the excessive time she spends there (she will stay there till 1am) I am worried because when I attended the forum I found them extremely creepy (due to the colour coded name badges for seperating 'newbies' and 'inducties' and the arrangment of everything in a specific place (even down to the paper clips!)). Someone I told about the arrangement of the room said "are you sure you didn't enter a seminar for people with OCD" (anyone who has been to landmark will know what I mean).

Can anyone give me any tips for finding a way to reason with someone who just will not listen to you?

p.s. does anyone know anything about the numbers on the name tags, apparently they are numbered 1 to 5 and they determine how landmark is marketed to the victim, I mean client.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2008 11:56PM by skeptical_one.

Hi there skeptical_one,

A very big 'welcome' to the forum. You've got friends here.

This is something we discuss a lot here and we're yet to come up with a silver bullet for the problem. It's definitely not easy, and sometimes it's easier to resign oneself to fate and that they will eventually come out through the other end. A bit like going for a spin inside a clothes dryer -- slightly scorched but otherwise alive and able to resume life somewhat.

The biggest problem in dealing with the individual is that they are essentially brainwashed ... and it's impossible to tell a brainwashed person that they've been brainwashed. They simply don't believe you.

Typical of the brainwashed victim is that they will gush all over you with how wonderful Landmark has been for them and how it has changed their lives. This (the brainwash message) is the headline. Your victim will be big on headlines and lacking on story details (aka how Landmark actually helped them). Pick one item per discussion/conversation and gently press for detail to substantiate her claims. Hopefully she will one day realise that she has problems backing up what she has been led to believe. It will take a while "for the penny to drop", though.

The other thing you can do immediately is to nullify her ability to recruit others. Whilst it's possible to explain to others about Landmark and how it works, it's far easier to explain to them that Landmark is a psychological equivalent of Amway, and they too would soon be required to sign up their friends. The mere mention of Amway paints the picture so effectively. :-)

Actually, the Amway angle is a more potent turn-off than you would believe. I had warned a friend about attending a Landmark Education seminar and had sent him all sorts of materials that showed how Landmark operates. What actually caused him to leave on the Saturday of a weekend seminar? The expectation that he was going to be selling this thing to his friends and effectively recruiting for Landmark for free.

If you are still able to be in contact with your friend, I would also recommend maximising the time she is away from Landmark activities. If she has a day off, then go somewhere special or exciting. The more life she has outside of Landmark the better. Being away from the reinforcement environment is the best thing you can do to recover from Landmark / brainwashing. Since she will be broke, simply offer to pay and that should clinch the deal. :->

That said, this is just a quick start and I'm certainly not as expert as others may be. I welcome thoughts and suggestions as to what can be done to overcome the Landmark influence and rescue someone from this.

John



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2008 02:34PM by John Fox.

first advice is - take care of yourself first. Don't worry too much about your friend - most people snap out of it after a while.

second advice is - read up on landmark on here on RR. What you read here might scare you a little bit but I am sorry to tell you - landmark is an evil entity that brainwashes people to believe that nothing really means anything. So they can behave in whatever way they seem fit to fill their egotistical needs. It doesn't mean anything for them that people go crazy, develop bipolar disease, commit suicide etc.

But most people don't have disastrous result out of their participation with landmark. But as you have seen it becomes cultish - they become a closed group that focuses on enrolling others. The ones left outside are not on their friends list - unless they can enroll them of course.

nettie
a person who will harass the ass off landmark as long as they stay in business - and possibly any other stupid LGAT

Was wondering if someone could answer the following:

what do landmark tell you are the criteria for becoming a leader? does it have any link with the number of people you sign up? Just want to have more of an insight into how this landmark thing works.

Have managed to get back in contact with the person, she says she is decreasing her contact with landmark but she is not always honest about the number of times she goes there. As well as reading about landmark on the web have brought a book on brainwashing, so I can be more informed about any of the techniques used.

to become a landmark introduction to the forum leader I had to enroll 10 people. There were other goals as well but the 10 people was central.

I got 4 enrolled during an introduction while trying to reach the goal of 10. The only thing I did was to be in the room where a "certified" introduction leader was leading. I was only assisting her. Then I saw that some people was ready to sign up. So I asked them "do you want to register?" And they did. We celebrated later because this was supposed to be a very good introduction - I think the statistics were 40% enrollments in that room.

The introduction leader who was leading that introduction then often requested me to assist in her intros. She thought that I was good at "creating a listening for her" when she was leading.

I was very happy that I could mark down 4 enrollments so easily since I did have big problems making "real" enrollments of friends and family.

nettie
the ex introleader that enrolled a person that later killed himself - landmark programs caused his mental health to deteriorate rapidly...I am ok with it. It happened 10 years ago...I am not OK with the fact that Landmark can be allowed to exist though



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2008 11:55PM by nettie.

Thanks for the replies they have been very helpful, in terms of getting an insight into the bunch of cowboys who are the forum.

A few more questions:

I have heard the contract that you sign before starting the forum is NOT legally binding. Does anyone have any information on this?

Secondly how do landmark market the course; (coding 1 to 5 on badges etc). Basically what are their methods for targetting particularly individuals, as people do not join landmark they are recruited. I can see why they recruited my friend: she is extremely articulate and she can make a speech off the cuff. I wish she would join an organisation where the employees would appreciate her. How can I convince her that landmark doesn't (I suppose I could point out that they work her too hard). If I knew how landmark worked I'd be better equiped to illustrate that they are using her.

My friend has said to me that she has had to work till around 1am. Is the 1am finish time usual and is the schedule sometimes more gruelling? She seems quite depressed at the moment and I suspect in part it is because she is being over worked by them. She tells me she has coursework outside of the course. I know part of the coursework is enrolement (from what I've read) but shes very secretive on the nature of this coursework. Considering she is doing a leadership programme and community volunteering, what would be the nature of the coursework?

p.s. does anyone know anything about the numbers on the name tags, apparently they are numbered 1 to 5 and they determine how landmark is marketed to the victim, I mean client.


Yes, the number on the nametag refers to the room number that the person wearing the tag goes to to be brainwashed.

Quote
2paradise2
p.s. does anyone know anything about the numbers on the name tags, apparently they are numbered 1 to 5 and they determine how landmark is marketed to the victim, I mean client.


Yes, the number on the nametag refers to the room number that the person wearing the tag goes to to be brainwashed.

Hi 2paradise2 if what you are saying is true that does not tell us anything, how do they determine who goes to what room?

Is 2paradise2, having me on?

one of the functions of the numbers is to isolate the guests from each other.

if u bring in 3 guests they are all given different numbers so that they
are talked without their friends around.


i thought there were just 4 of them, maybe they have moved it up to 5.

First divide, then conquer ... eh?

Landmark really does strive to rid the individual of any social/emotional/psychological protections they may have had.

John