while i find a lot of the information posted on this site useful, i feel like i've entered the anti-cult cult zone & its just as creepy as any other cult.

Don't worry. There is no "anti-cult cult" operating here.

There is no absolute leader, totalitarian state, dues, money exchanged, fear of hell or even a particular religious belief system being preferentially promoted.

In fact as the rules state no proselytizing is allowed.

And all the tricks about manipulating people through thought reform techniques, coercive persuasion or undue influence are being exposed on an ongoing basis on this board.

Besides, if you don't like the message board, you can point, click and move on.

Total freedom really.

Shhhhhhhhhh


she is on to us!!!


lol

ana323 wrote:

"while i find a lot of the information posted on this site useful, i feel like i've entered the anti-cult cult zone & its just as creepy as any other cult."

That was my initial reaction also. It seemed as though some of the folks have some strong feelings about certain groups and an almost Sci-Fi. conspiracy theory view of them.

rrmoderator has sent me some links that showed me that some of the theories promoted by posters did come from noted scientists.

i.e. Margaret Singer and Lifton

Although I think that some of the views promoted based on the works of the two just mentioned are off base, I have to say that the model for thought-reform appears to be applied in LGATs.

The question is:

Are the LGATs applying it with the sole purpose of controlling participants to do their evil bidding? If they are it doesn't work on everyone. I did the original Est training years ago, took what worked for me and moved on.

But I did see a lot of participants that appeared "brainwashed" based on their strange "jargonistic" speech and their zealous attempts to "enroll" others. It seemed similar to other "evangelical" religious types I have encountered in my life.

I also think that some of the posters have had genuine negative experiences and that fuels their point of view.

You may see that even the mere suggestion that people can get something positve from an LGAT or not be the victim of their pernicious, evil thought reform will get some very strong reponses from the members here.

Some of the common ones I've seen are;

cult apologist, Est-hole, already a victim of thought-reform etc.

It's just an attempt to minimize a poster's credibility. I've seen it go the other way also. Accusations that this board promotes religious intolerance, witch hunters etc.

I think the truth lies some where in the middle. The purpose of this board appears to be well intentioned also. Even if some of the stuff appears to be "over the top" for you and me.

I think most of the folks here are sincere in their beliefs. Just as I think some of the LGAT "apologists" and Evangelicals think that what their doing is for the benefit of others.

I just tend to see shades of grey on these issues. Not everything is that black and white--- to me.

Take each person who posts with a grain of salt, until you see the general tenor of their messages. I pay more attention to the reasoned arguments than angry posts that are clearly based on a personal vendetta.

What brought you to this site to begin with? I find it "Hard" to believe that you would imply that this is like an anti-cult cult. You are entitled to your opinion(s) but obviously...

You have had "NO Experience(s) with a Cult Destroying Your Family or Affecting The Loved Ones In Your Life!"

You have 'No Idea' what it feels like for someone to go through an Unannounced Change in their life and be Taken Away by a Cult. You have 'No Idea' how it effects the individual that was taken away, and what it feels like for the Spouse, Children, and other Family Members after this has happened. How about feelings of Helplessness, Confusion, Being Hurt, Weakness, Not being in Control, Not having any say, thinking of this every minute of every day of your life.. which affects other areas in your life.. and feelings of being Powerless. I could go on, but will stop there.

Seeing the Victim act like someone else, Seeing Your Close, Immediate Family Suddenly Torn Apart, and the Victim "Completely Unaware" that 'Some Group' has Changed The Person They were born to Be. You would have 'Strong Feelings' against practices like this if you had gone through something similar, Believe Me!

I have found this Website to be Extremely Helpful, With Many Valuable Resources and Posts. Thank you so much, moderators and all, who have taken the time to respond to my posts! You are Very Insightful! I wish you the best in your own situations and in your own lives!

"i feel like i've entered the anti-cult cult zone & its just as creepy as any other cult."

:lol: Just as you are free of guilt be free of fear.

"You may see that even the mere suggestion that people can get something positve from an LGAT or not be the victim of their pernicious, evil thought reform will get some very strong reponses from the members here.

Some of the common ones I've seen are;

cult apologist, Est-hole, already a victim of thought-reform etc.

It's just an attempt to minimize a poster's credibility."

No in fact posts are disected not to minimize credibility but to search for it.

" Accusations that this board promotes religious intolerance, witch hunters etc. "

Would you mind clarifying that thought please? It would help you retain credibility to remain coherent.

"I think the truth lies some where in the middle."

I think the truth is the farthest thing from your lips or keyboard as the case may be.

Keep your words soft and sweet, incase you are made to eat them.

The divorce of parents, even when the child is an adult, can be emotionally devastating. To lose contact with your mother and see her behaving so strangely must be particularly upsetting. I hope you're getting the support you need to deal with this difficult time.

Harner sounds a lot like Dr. Timothy Leary and Dr. Richard Alpert (aka Ram Dass) In the sixties, while teaching at Harvard University, Leary started the Psilocybin Project after taking a research trip to Central America and being introduced to these hallucinogenic mushrooms.

He experiment considerably with LSD, as did Ram Dass. Leary coined the phrase, "Tune in, turn on and drop out"

It sounds like your mother is regrettably following this advise. Her odd behavior could be the effects of the hallucinogens. Does she have grandchildren? If so, does she see them? Maybe "connecting" her to loved ones like grandchildren will draw her back to your family.

I've always been very suspicious of using drugs to "expand" the mind. Maybe it works for Ivy League educated PHDs but I've seen some people lose their marbles trying it. Some barriers and filters are best left intact.

I would say you don't want to alienate her by being to judgemental. Maybe you could contact Harner and voice your concern about your Mom's mental health.

I have friends that new Ram Dass. I'll ask them what they know about Harner and get back to you. Good Luck.

I wrote:
I think the truth lies some where in the middle."

Templar wrote in response:

I think the truth is the farthest thing from your lips or keyboard as the case may be.

Keep your words soft and sweet, incase you are made to eat them.

This is a typical response if you aren't lockstep with the group. Like some of the LGATs and NRMs that are criticized here, this message board is often driven by peer pressure. Dissenting opinion is attacked. Usually ad hominem as Templar demonstrates above.

In response to your question for clarification, I was likening attacks like your's on my post to those attacking this website. One and the same. You call me a liar, someone calls Rick Ross a religious bigot. I'm saying both are simply name calling that bring heat and smoke but no light to the discourse.

Thanks for such a good example.

At this time there is [i:cd07a287ba]no [/i:cd07a287ba]information concerning whether drugs are used in The Foundation for Shamanic Studies.

Its fine to bring up the historical roots of a group, but when discussing a group that exists today, we have to stick with factual information, and go no further than the facts permit.

I have grave misgivings about the commercialization of shamanism. But that is a [i:cd07a287ba]totally [/i:cd07a287ba]different matter than whether the group in question uses drugs.

And at this time we do not yet know whether 'hurting's mother chose to distance herself from her family and friends by her own free choice, or if she was pressured or encouraged to do so by others.

At this stage, we need more information.