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vlinden
Balance, balance. The middle path is the most challenging.

That's the EASY part.

1) Get a college education that will be able to get you a job.
2) Don't be a dumbass. If you haven't found yourself, look in the mirror. Grab your shoulders. OK, you've found yourself. Shut the fuck up and get back to work!
3) Mental health practitioners actually do good work everyone can benefit from.
4) Just because something's legal, it doesn't mean it's ethical.
5) Fuck saving the planet...if you're gonna be a dumbass reproducing, you're going to help kill off the species who won't be able to bother with the environment.

My five rules for balance.

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Samuel

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Even though some people argue against this idea, I still think Landmark and other LGATs prey on the weak, because I really don't know any strong people who would take part in them. Strong meaning, a solid sense of self, an ability to cope, strong personal insight, strong critical thinking, ability to experience pain and loss and come out the other side feeling like more, not less of a person. People with strong self esteem and self love. People who trust themselves and their choices.

My wife was a strong, independent person before her involvement prior to PSI Seminars. She did have issues prior to her attending their courses but she was under the care of a doctor for issues of depression. Not due to the marriage, but issues at work. I admired her for the fact that she recognized she had a problem and rather then hide it or suppress it she dealt with it by getting help. That was the way she was. I even attended some of her counseling sessions. She was on prescribed medication and stopped cold after her return from the PSI Basic course, which was against the doctor orders. This is when the problems started. Shortly after the four day basic class I learned that she had paid PSI $3000.00 for a 7 day course in California. I couldn’t believe she would spend that kind of money on anything. She was so good with her money; balancing her checkbook was a twice a week chore and she knew to the penny how much was in her account. When I asked what she was spending the money on she yelled that it was none of my business. She told me that I believed this course was bullshit but she felt she had to take it anyway. The only thing I can relate this too is drug addiction. She had to have it. She came home from the basic on “a high” and she wanted more. When she returned she left, it was over. No remorse whatsoever. Her relationship with her PSI “friends” was more important. Their “support” for her move to “white light” and “workshops” made the issues worse. Now I understand she works paycheck to paycheck and spends most of her money supporting a man who has been married twice before and has the reputation of leaving them once he’s used them up.

I understand that a lot of the people who become involved in these groups are smart and intelligent, it just seems to me that they are looking for something missing in their lives. The one problem is they think this is the answer and it is not. This causes more problems for them. I've read the thread written by Jeri442 and this almost sounds like the things I saw my wife doing. It's like they have been programed.

My husband was a strong person prior to his involvement with PSI. It turned him into someone I don't even recognize. Samuel statement "it seems that they are looking for something missing in their lives" was not something I saw at the time, but I realize he was missing something. I just wished I knew what it was. I had a trusting, committed relationship with my husband and he betrayed that trust and commitment. He is a LOSER. This is his problem, it is his fault. If he felt the need for something he was missing my feeling is he should have asked me for it.

I read the threat written by Jeri 442; alot of what I read pretty much matches what I see my husband going through now. I am glad Jeri saw this for what this was; I am just sorry it took her as long as it did.

But as far as I am concern; PSI is for LOSERS......................

A jeweler once told me that, unlike diamonds, there is no such thing as a flawless emerald.

The finest, gem quality emerald will have a flaw or two--which is why such stones are sensitive to radical changes in tempreture. Thus, one should not
wear an emerald ring or bracelet when doing tasks such as taking a hot object
out of an oven or washing the dishes.

Daniel Shaw, psychoanalyst writes in an article:

"Cult leaders succeed in dominating their followers because they have mastered the cruel art of exploiting universal human dependency and attachment needs in others. The lengthy period of dependency in human development, the power that parents have, as God-like figures, to literally give life and sustain the lives of their children, leaves each human being with the memory, however distant or unconscious, of total dependency. Cult leaders tap into and re-activate this piece of the human psyche. "

[www.danielshawlcsw.com]

Repeat...'universal human dependency and attachment needs.'

All of us, even those who have had 'good enough' parenting, have lived through the universal experience of being languageless tiny beings, with wildly swinging emotions, utterly dependent for our needs on Big People who are unpredictable, sometimes loving and who sometimes regard our most urgent longings as funny and laugh at us as 'cute' leaving us shame ridden and horrifed and confused--and this happens even in the happiest of childhood.

So we all grow up as human gems, precious, yet with this flaw that lingers from the radical power imbalance of babyhood/childhood.

And this flaw can be accessed and cracked open if someone knows exactly how to angle us, does not give us forewarning that we are about to be positioned for the downward blow of a mallet, wielded by someone who regards us merely as an object.

It is painful and frightening to admit that we are all potentially breakable in this manner. And those who cling to the belief that they are strong enough to be unbreakable are those most vulnerable.

The human personality can be unravelled all too easily under the right conditions. Go and talk to parents who have logged consecutive nights of sleep deprivation, caring for a suffering, colicky infant. Get them to tell you what this does to their minds and emotions.

Corboy,

I think this analysis in important in keeping people out of LGATs. My ex didn't want to see himself as weak, he wanted to feel impervious to worst possible effects of LGATs.

He wrote to me today telling me he has regret that our relationship has been torn apart by all of this. This was the first time since he took the Forum that his self, and his love for me, has emerged. Perhaps because it's been a while since the Forum a few weeks. But next week he's going to take the Advanced Course, and it doesn't seem I can talk him out of it.

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vlinden
But next week he's going to take the Advanced Course, and it doesn't seem I can talk him out of it.

That's where I lost my ex, essentially. LE was her own personal strength/endurance test. Good luck.

That's where I lost my ex, essentially. LE was her own personal strength/endurance test. Good luck.


No luck. He's gone. I wonder what he meant by telling me he loved me and regrets losing me. I guess he doesn't love me enough or regret it enough, or want me back enough, to listen to me about Landmark.

He must really love Landmark.

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vlinden


No luck. He's gone. I wonder what he meant by telling me he loved me and regrets losing me. I guess he doesn't love me enough or regret it enough, or want me back enough, to listen to me about Landmark.

I think that he tells you the truth. But it becomes unbearable to have a relationship in his mindcontrolled state with someone outside. So it becomes priority 1 to get loved ones into the cult thinking. If a spouse refuses the mindcontrolled person has a very difficult decision to make - Landmark or the spouse.

It is like having found your perfect apartment and your spouse tells you it stinks and you would never put your foot in that place. It is interpreted as an attack on your judgement.

In the state he is in it is impossible to listen to the bad stuff about landmark - it threatens his own (newly formed) existense. It is not his fault and not a question if he loves you or not. It is simply like he is drowning and he is doing what he can to survive.

I am very sorry for your loss. Let's hope that he will snap out of it sooner than I did (4 years in the cult)...

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vlinden
He must really love Landmark.

In landmark world love is only a word and you put whatever meaning to it that you want. I think that now he is really COMMITTED to landmark - I hope he doesn't love them ;-)

Hi Nettie,

I know, I'm sure you're right. It was actually a very big deal for me to hear him say these things to me yesterday. After he got out of the Forum a few weeks ago, he displayed all the same signs that so many people have posted about here on this board. He was totally self centered, he seemed disconnected from me in a new way I'd never seen. And of course he was spouting jargon.

I was so angry at the time I couldn't see straight. I wasn't loving or compassionate at all toward him. Because it seemed Landmark had given him some kind of validation of his weaknesses in our relationship. Instead of fighting them, and fighting FOR us, he just sort of gave in. Probably after being told what a loser asshole piece of crap he was for three days, he decided he really was, and only Landmark could help him. At that point I think I just became an obstacle.

Of course it was all more complex than this. But I hated the phone call I got from him after Landmark. I think he was trying to "complete" with me.

I remember he said he hoped we could still be friends. And I said, "Why??" (I was very angry). And he said, "Well, one way or the other I'll be having a relationship with you for the rest of my life."

To me, this was just another self-centered perspective. Like, oh, great, well I'm glad you'll be having a relationship with me, but it doesn't look like I"ll be having one with you anymore, so excuse me while I go have a total breakdown.

And he kept saying at the end that he knew this call was going to be hard, as if I should congratulate him on having the balls to call me and "complete." I wish he had just never called.

Then in the ensuing weeks, while he was dealing with the "emotional roller coaster" Landmark put him on, we were totally disconnected from each other. And when I asked him how he felt when he remembered what we once had (which was an amazing connection and a very pure, innocent kind of love -- we called each other "twin stars"), he said he felt "a little sad."

A LITTLE SAD???!!!

It was impossible. It was like he'd had his heart shut down along with his critical mind. And you know, they ARE connected. Everything is connected.

Anyway. Yesterday was a bit of closure for me. Just to have him write to me from his heart, and say he was missing me. I've been missing him terribly.

But . . . alas. He is going to do the Advanced Course. This coming week, I think.

I told him this morning that yes, I think I can be friends with him the future, but that I won't be willing to listen to any Landmark jargon, so if he can talk to me without "enrolling me in the possibility of transformation" then perhaps we can relate as humans.

I'm scared to imagine how he will be when he comes out of the Advanced Course. I put a few thoughts in his head to take with him to Landmark:

Life is meangingful
You are far more than your "rackets" and "winning strategies"
It's okay to look good
You are your mind
Some things are actually NOT possible
Werner Erhard is a sociopathic, abusive, sleazebag con-man

Couldn't help myself. =)

I also reminded him that this coming week I will be lying on the white sands of a Mexican beach. He was supposed to have been there with me, but instead he'll be sitting in a cheesy colorless room wearing a silly name tag and getting fleeced by Landmark.

Choices. We are also our choices.

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vlinden
Hi Nettie,

I know, I'm sure you're right. It was actually a very big deal for me to hear him say these things to me yesterday. After he got out of the Forum a few weeks ago, he displayed all the same signs that so many people have posted about here on this board. He was totally self centered, he seemed disconnected from me in a new way I'd never seen. And of course he was spouting jargon.

I was so angry at the time I couldn't see straight. I wasn't loving or compassionate at all toward him. Because it seemed Landmark had given him some kind of validation of his weaknesses in our relationship. Instead of fighting them, and fighting FOR us, he just sort of gave in. Probably after being told what a loser asshole piece of crap he was for three days, he decided he really was, and only Landmark could help him. At that point I think I just became an obstacle.

Of course it was all more complex than this. But I hated the phone call I got from him after Landmark. I think he was trying to "complete" with me.

I remember he said he hoped we could still be friends. And I said, "Why??" (I was very angry). And he said, "Well, one way or the other I'll be having a relationship with you for the rest of my life."

To me, this was just another self-centered perspective. Like, oh, great, well I'm glad you'll be having a relationship with me, but it doesn't look like I"ll be having one with you anymore, so excuse me while I go have a total breakdown.

And he kept saying at the end that he knew this call was going to be hard, as if I should congratulate him on having the balls to call me and "complete." I wish he had just never called.

Then in the ensuing weeks, while he was dealing with the "emotional roller coaster" Landmark put him on, we were totally disconnected from each other. And when I asked him how he felt when he remembered what we once had (which was an amazing connection and a very pure, innocent kind of love -- we called each other "twin stars"), he said he felt "a little sad."

A LITTLE SAD???!!!

It was impossible. It was like he'd had his heart shut down along with his critical mind. And you know, they ARE connected. Everything is connected.

Anyway. Yesterday was a bit of closure for me. Just to have him write to me from his heart, and say he was missing me. I've been missing him terribly.

But . . . alas. He is going to do the Advanced Course. This coming week, I think.

I told him this morning that yes, I think I can be friends with him the future, but that I won't be willing to listen to any Landmark jargon, so if he can talk to me without "enrolling me in the possibility of transformation" then perhaps we can relate as humans.

I'm scared to imagine how he will be when he comes out of the Advanced Course. I put a few thoughts in his head to take with him to Landmark:

Life is meangingful
You are far more than your "rackets" and "winning strategies"
It's okay to look good
You are your mind
Some things are actually NOT possible
Werner Erhard is a sociopathic, abusive, sleazebag con-man

Couldn't help myself. =)

I also reminded him that this coming week I will be lying on the white sands of a Mexican beach. He was supposed to have been there with me, but instead he'll be sitting in a cheesy colorless room wearing a silly name tag and getting fleeced by Landmark.

Choices. We are also our choices.

I'm crying as I type this. Because this week is the anniversary of the day me and my ex-fiancee consummated our love after waiting many, many months.

We wanted to be sure.

A year ago, I was placing a ring on her finger. It was CZ and blue, the exact tint she loved.

I remember in the end the whole "wanting to be complete and be heard," and "having a relationship still but friends" in a sadness-tinged monotone.

She chose a faceless corporation over me.

If this wouldn't have happened, our wedding date was set for this month.

Next week, in fact.

I remember all the wonderful things she said...that turned out to be lies.

One of my dear friends had a best friend in Landmark. I've never told any more than one other person about this (a stranger, in hopes they wouldn't join LE), but very shortly after he quit LE, he took his own life. He was/is a beautiful person. He was just confused about life and thought LE had the answers.

And after he was shattered, he died.

At nearly the same time my ex left me or a month thereabouts.

I only have loss and emptiness left...the only thing giving me any joy is a comination of meds and the help I give my clients daily. I'm living and I do live...to be in service of a small group of people who want professional help.

Racket, looking good, "my story"?

No.

Reality.

And still I cry, Vlinden.

I'm sorry, Vic-Luc.

I've been having a hard time finding the joy myself lately. That's why on my journey out of Mexico I'm taking the long way home, going up the coast instead of through the middle of the country (never drive through Mexico City!!) so I can have some time by the sea, which always makes me feel more appreciative of life. It's been years since I've been to the ocean.

Right before my ex went to Landmark I was planning a vacation for the two of us to go where I'm now going alone.

Well look, this is life. Shit happens. We have find a way to heal and move forward. My ex will never understand why I had such a strong reaction to Landmark because he's still keeping his blinders tightly wrapped around his poor head. And I'm trying to get to a place where I can have some compassion for him, because obviously he was screwed up in some way I didn't understand before, and I feel really sorry that he lost me as a result. Because I'm awesome!!! And I deserve someone who is strong and stable enough to love me, not a sleazy corporation!!

And somewhere in all of this is more than one lesson for me, which I plan to consider as I walk on the beach, drinking my cerveza and weeping piteously =) Just kidding. I've done enough crying lately. Maybe I'll go to a club and dance. . . .