Who is bringing the Kool Aid?
Posted by:
ajinajan
()
Date: August 12, 2007 01:24PM
Who is bringing the Kool Aid?
[www.chillingeffects.org]
An interesting archived letter, over at www.chillingeffects.org
Ya gotta luv that title for the archived page itself...
[www.chillingeffects.org]
An interesting archived letter, over at www.chillingeffects.org
Ya gotta luv that title for the archived page itself...
Who is bringing the Kool Aid?
Posted by:
elena
()
Date: August 12, 2007 09:22PM
Yes,
It is great to see how many people who know little and care less about Landmark and other LGATS but still know they are related in obvious and bizarre ways to Jim Jones and his People's Temple. And how fortuitous that the metaphor is so personal, so physical, so "sticky," and so deadly. One would like to think that, unlike earlier times when otherwise decent, intelligent people were sucked into these things, the only current prospects are so clueless and obtuse that they constitute a "Darwin Award"-type segment of the population. Imagine how many thoughtful, careful, or skeptical people would tolerate the public buzz about Kool-Aid, Stepford wives, or Invasion of the Body Snatchers in regard to these silly programs without going immediately to the computer and finding out the rest of the story. The recently indoctrinated must have a staggering capacity to pull the blinders over their own eyes and keep them there with psycho-super-glue.
Having said that, I'm still hopeful that those dimwits who fall into these LGAT traps occasionally emerge that much wiser with something to contribute to the public discourse. Paradoxically, a short trip through one of these minor hells can be the stimulus for a real education of the sort one might not get otherwise. Maybe, and in a more optimistic light, they will serve as some kind of cultural "corrective" in the long run -- a good dose of intellectual milk-of-magnesia for a poorly-fed and plugged up society. What other culture has existed that displayed the hunger for all this "improvement" with so little evidence of anyone actually accomplishing it? It calls to mind the perpetual self-loathing of the idealistic who reject the real world for some fantasy life they have little chance of attaining, like the pimply-faced adolescent endless dreaming of some air-brushed, digitally-enhanced super-model. They've tapped well into this societal weakness. Every ad-man knows how to cultivate anxiety and depression in his target audience by feeding them unrealistic fantasies or ~possibilities.~ Maybe we all need to be reminded that a superior happiness is to be found in the here-and-now real word rather than the imaginary and counterfeit dream-lives manufactured by those who want to sell you something.
Ellen
It is great to see how many people who know little and care less about Landmark and other LGATS but still know they are related in obvious and bizarre ways to Jim Jones and his People's Temple. And how fortuitous that the metaphor is so personal, so physical, so "sticky," and so deadly. One would like to think that, unlike earlier times when otherwise decent, intelligent people were sucked into these things, the only current prospects are so clueless and obtuse that they constitute a "Darwin Award"-type segment of the population. Imagine how many thoughtful, careful, or skeptical people would tolerate the public buzz about Kool-Aid, Stepford wives, or Invasion of the Body Snatchers in regard to these silly programs without going immediately to the computer and finding out the rest of the story. The recently indoctrinated must have a staggering capacity to pull the blinders over their own eyes and keep them there with psycho-super-glue.
Having said that, I'm still hopeful that those dimwits who fall into these LGAT traps occasionally emerge that much wiser with something to contribute to the public discourse. Paradoxically, a short trip through one of these minor hells can be the stimulus for a real education of the sort one might not get otherwise. Maybe, and in a more optimistic light, they will serve as some kind of cultural "corrective" in the long run -- a good dose of intellectual milk-of-magnesia for a poorly-fed and plugged up society. What other culture has existed that displayed the hunger for all this "improvement" with so little evidence of anyone actually accomplishing it? It calls to mind the perpetual self-loathing of the idealistic who reject the real world for some fantasy life they have little chance of attaining, like the pimply-faced adolescent endless dreaming of some air-brushed, digitally-enhanced super-model. They've tapped well into this societal weakness. Every ad-man knows how to cultivate anxiety and depression in his target audience by feeding them unrealistic fantasies or ~possibilities.~ Maybe we all need to be reminded that a superior happiness is to be found in the here-and-now real word rather than the imaginary and counterfeit dream-lives manufactured by those who want to sell you something.
Ellen
Who is bringing the Kool Aid?
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: August 12, 2007 11:45PM
And of course that Landmark Dis-Education legal letter was simply an attempt at initimidation and threat.
The video and transcript are still up.
[www.culthelp.info]
The "copyright arguments" put forward by Landmark were false and baseless, they were a fraud.
It seems that those who work for freedom of speech have somewhat figured out how to defeat groups like Landmark by calling their bluff, and moving toward bringing the entire Landmark corporation into the courts. When all of their ugly and dirty secrets come out in the court process, then Landmark would be destroyed. Landmark and Werner Erhard know this, so they clearly have to keep Landmark from facing a full legal process in front of a judge.
Perhaps someday soon, there might be class-action lawsuits brought against these types of groups in the US, and that could put many of them out of the game, or force them to stop harming people so blatantly.
The video and transcript are still up.
[www.culthelp.info]
The "copyright arguments" put forward by Landmark were false and baseless, they were a fraud.
It seems that those who work for freedom of speech have somewhat figured out how to defeat groups like Landmark by calling their bluff, and moving toward bringing the entire Landmark corporation into the courts. When all of their ugly and dirty secrets come out in the court process, then Landmark would be destroyed. Landmark and Werner Erhard know this, so they clearly have to keep Landmark from facing a full legal process in front of a judge.
Perhaps someday soon, there might be class-action lawsuits brought against these types of groups in the US, and that could put many of them out of the game, or force them to stop harming people so blatantly.
Who is bringing the Kool Aid?
Posted by:
ajinajan
()
Date: August 13, 2007 07:24AM
Quote
The Anticult
And of course that Landmark Dis-Education legal letter was simply an attempt at initimidation and threat.
The video and transcript are still up.
[www.culthelp.info]
The "copyright arguments" put forward by Landmark were false and baseless, they were a fraud.
It seems that those who work for freedom of speech have somewhat figured out how to defeat groups like Landmark by calling their bluff, and moving toward bringing the entire Landmark corporation into the courts. When all of their ugly and dirty secrets come out in the court process, then Landmark would be destroyed. Landmark and Werner Erhard know this, so they clearly have to keep Landmark from facing a full legal process in front of a judge.
Perhaps someday soon, there might be class-action lawsuits brought against these types of groups in the US, and that could put many of them out of the game, or force them to stop harming people so blatantly.
Both of the last two comments are extremely on-target indeed.
As a side note, I just watched the movie, TICKET TO HEAVEN today for the first time, and it was amusing to pick out the many similarities between all of the various Large Group Awareness Training tactics, and those used by the cult in the movie. Roger Ebert gave it 3.5 stars, by the way.
Who is bringing the Kool Aid?
Posted by:
The Shadow
()
Date: August 14, 2007 04:33PM
Hi elena,
I disagree that it is only the "dimwits" who fall into the LGAT trap. My friend is far from being a dimwit. But she was introduced by someone she loved and trusted at a time when she was particularly vulnerable. I had been trying to persuade her to get some help for minor depression, but she would not take my advice to consider a short course of chemical anti-depressants or some counselling. Her dad paid for her first course; she agreed to take it because her relationship with him was in a shambles, she did not like his new wife, and she was desparate to make things right with him. (she is younger than 30). His new wife (someone he has only known for about 6 months, is a long-time Landmark/EST gruaduate).
I can just see her at the introductory course. sitting between him and her in a crowded room, being told all the things she wants/needs to hear. Thinking that this will fix what is wrong between her and her Dad.
Well, it has not fixed anything. The only thing it has done is deplete her bank account and worn me out physically and emotionally as I worry about what is going to happen to her.
I disagree that it is only the "dimwits" who fall into the LGAT trap. My friend is far from being a dimwit. But she was introduced by someone she loved and trusted at a time when she was particularly vulnerable. I had been trying to persuade her to get some help for minor depression, but she would not take my advice to consider a short course of chemical anti-depressants or some counselling. Her dad paid for her first course; she agreed to take it because her relationship with him was in a shambles, she did not like his new wife, and she was desparate to make things right with him. (she is younger than 30). His new wife (someone he has only known for about 6 months, is a long-time Landmark/EST gruaduate).
I can just see her at the introductory course. sitting between him and her in a crowded room, being told all the things she wants/needs to hear. Thinking that this will fix what is wrong between her and her Dad.
Well, it has not fixed anything. The only thing it has done is deplete her bank account and worn me out physically and emotionally as I worry about what is going to happen to her.
Who is bringing the Kool Aid?
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: August 15, 2007 12:26AM
Its been shown that often the more intelligent a person is, the easier it is for them to get tricked into a LGAT type of cult situation. They don't target blue collar people, they target white collar people.
Also, I took the 'dimwits' comment to refer to the people who get deeply into Landmark, and then fight FOR Landmark, attack others, and become Landmark pitbulls and drones, and also spend all day recruiting others into Landmark, etc. These people turn from victims of Landmark to Victimizers For Landmark.
But there are many others who are just the victims of these LGAT cults. just the other day, Scientology was on the street recruiting, and laughing and joking with people. It was so sad to see some innocent and naive young women being conned right there on the street. These folks don't have the education about cults to know what is going on, and they TRUST these happy looking strangers talking about (that scumbag) Tom Cruise, and they would never think people would get up early in the morning, and hit the streets looking for "fresh meat", and those who are easy prey.
So one needs to have deep empathy for the victims of the LGAT's.
But also severe contempt for the few who go from being a victim, to victimizing others.
There are some who whenever they see a cult recruiter working someone on the street, they wait until the cult recruiter gets close to "closing the sale" and then they walk right up and say openly to the person they are targeting, and to the cult recruiter...
"hey, did you know that these people are out here doing Cult Recruiting?? they are trying to lure you into their cult, so they can take your money. Seriously!! Do NOT trust this group, they are trying to scam you, and take your money...etc".
More than 90% of the time, the cult target will walk away right after that, as their "scam" button has been pressed, and they wake-up from the con-game.
Of course, no one is suggesting that people do this type of thing, unless they know what they are doing. It does have risks.
But it also has its rewards, to see one more potential victim walk away, free as a bird, and with something to think about for the future.
Also, I took the 'dimwits' comment to refer to the people who get deeply into Landmark, and then fight FOR Landmark, attack others, and become Landmark pitbulls and drones, and also spend all day recruiting others into Landmark, etc. These people turn from victims of Landmark to Victimizers For Landmark.
But there are many others who are just the victims of these LGAT cults. just the other day, Scientology was on the street recruiting, and laughing and joking with people. It was so sad to see some innocent and naive young women being conned right there on the street. These folks don't have the education about cults to know what is going on, and they TRUST these happy looking strangers talking about (that scumbag) Tom Cruise, and they would never think people would get up early in the morning, and hit the streets looking for "fresh meat", and those who are easy prey.
So one needs to have deep empathy for the victims of the LGAT's.
But also severe contempt for the few who go from being a victim, to victimizing others.
There are some who whenever they see a cult recruiter working someone on the street, they wait until the cult recruiter gets close to "closing the sale" and then they walk right up and say openly to the person they are targeting, and to the cult recruiter...
"hey, did you know that these people are out here doing Cult Recruiting?? they are trying to lure you into their cult, so they can take your money. Seriously!! Do NOT trust this group, they are trying to scam you, and take your money...etc".
More than 90% of the time, the cult target will walk away right after that, as their "scam" button has been pressed, and they wake-up from the con-game.
Of course, no one is suggesting that people do this type of thing, unless they know what they are doing. It does have risks.
But it also has its rewards, to see one more potential victim walk away, free as a bird, and with something to think about for the future.
Who is bringing the Kool Aid?
Posted by:
elena
()
Date: August 15, 2007 01:40AM
Quote
The Shadow
Hi elena,
I disagree that it is only the "dimwits" who fall into the LGAT trap. My friend is far from being a dimwit. But she was introduced by someone she loved and trusted at a time when she was particularly vulnerable. I had been trying to persuade her to get some help for minor depression, but she would not take my advice to consider a short course of chemical anti-depressants or some counselling. Her dad paid for her first course; she agreed to take it because her relationship with him was in a shambles, she did not like his new wife, and she was desparate to make things right with him. (she is younger than 30). His new wife (someone he has only known for about 6 months, is a long-time Landmark/EST gruaduate).
I can just see her at the introductory course. sitting between him and her in a crowded room, being told all the things she wants/needs to hear. Thinking that this will fix what is wrong between her and her Dad.
Well, it has not fixed anything. The only thing it has done is deplete her bank account and worn me out physically and emotionally as I worry about what is going to happen to her.
What I meant by that comment was the utter lack of curiosity it must take NOT to get on the internet and do a quick look-see once you've been introduced to Landmark or another of these groups. In earlier times, these groups survived through secrecy -- remember, people are instructed not to tell anyone what goes on inside the programs. That's not the case anymore. All the information is right there at your fingertips. And unless she lives in a bubble, she must have heard people say unflattering things about Landmark before she got involved. Also, as Anticult pointed out, I was referring to those followers who collude with Landmark and become agents for the cult. It takes a certain willingness to continue this charade once you've seen or heard the evidence against them. Though the collusion can be sub-conscious, it still involves cooperation, to some degree. The cult has all kinds of tricky ways to keep its followers blinded but the fact is that Landmark involvement makes most people stupid if they weren't tending in that direction to begin with. Hundreds of people have written here and thousands elsewhere to bemoan the fact that they didn't have access to the internet or it didn't exist when they got involved. And look how many write in to thank the writers here or wish they had found this website first. Last time I checked, Rick Ross's site came up one the first entries of a search on Landmark.
What is stopping her from listening to you, do you think?
Ellen
Re: Who is bringing the Kool Aid?
Posted by:
vlinden
()
Date: February 23, 2008 01:01AM
These are some good posts by Elena so I'm bringing this older thread up again.
This is precisely the reason I lost total respect for my ex and left him over Landmark. If he had been sucked in unwittingly, during the pre-Internet age, that would be one thing. But I was SCREAMING from the sidelines at him as he traipsed along, ignoring me in his callow self-absorbed psychological death-wish, batting away the reams of evidence against Landmark that I tried to hand him . . . there is no excuse for this. None.
Even now he won't do his own homework but so graciously offers that I can keep taking time and energy out of my life to "send him some links" about Landmark and he might be willing to listen as long as I'm not "furious."
Oh . . . fuck that.
I am furious. And disgusted.
Before I ended it with him two days ago -- truly and totally because I am just stomach-twisting ill inside from all this pathetic nonsense -- I sent him many threads about LGAT casualties. The young man who "snapped" in Crestone, CO and disappeared, the woman who jumped out of a window in Australia, Charla Mack being decapitated by her obviously "out of integrity" husband and Landmark leader, Darren Mack. I sent him some threads from Sonnie_Dee writing about the abuses that go on behind the scenes at Landmark.
What do you want to bet he doesn't read this stuff? And if he does, he goes to the Advanced Course anyway?
Can anyone say PA_FUCKING_THETIC????
Man, I've cursed more on this board than I did in junior high. Sorry, folks, but what can I say. I'm pissed.
He told me, in defense of Landmark, that from his perspective the whole thing is about "inspiring people to greatness." I nearly lost my lunch on that one.
Oh . . woe is me. Inspiring people to greatness.
Elena, if you're around, help me out here. Can you help me articulate why these words have a sickening effect on normal humans?
This is precisely the reason I lost total respect for my ex and left him over Landmark. If he had been sucked in unwittingly, during the pre-Internet age, that would be one thing. But I was SCREAMING from the sidelines at him as he traipsed along, ignoring me in his callow self-absorbed psychological death-wish, batting away the reams of evidence against Landmark that I tried to hand him . . . there is no excuse for this. None.
Even now he won't do his own homework but so graciously offers that I can keep taking time and energy out of my life to "send him some links" about Landmark and he might be willing to listen as long as I'm not "furious."
Oh . . . fuck that.
I am furious. And disgusted.
Before I ended it with him two days ago -- truly and totally because I am just stomach-twisting ill inside from all this pathetic nonsense -- I sent him many threads about LGAT casualties. The young man who "snapped" in Crestone, CO and disappeared, the woman who jumped out of a window in Australia, Charla Mack being decapitated by her obviously "out of integrity" husband and Landmark leader, Darren Mack. I sent him some threads from Sonnie_Dee writing about the abuses that go on behind the scenes at Landmark.
What do you want to bet he doesn't read this stuff? And if he does, he goes to the Advanced Course anyway?
Can anyone say PA_FUCKING_THETIC????
Man, I've cursed more on this board than I did in junior high. Sorry, folks, but what can I say. I'm pissed.
He told me, in defense of Landmark, that from his perspective the whole thing is about "inspiring people to greatness." I nearly lost my lunch on that one.
Oh . . woe is me. Inspiring people to greatness.
Elena, if you're around, help me out here. Can you help me articulate why these words have a sickening effect on normal humans?
Re: Who is bringing the Kool Aid?
Posted by:
Mary K
()
Date: February 23, 2008 11:29PM
Quote
vlinden
These are some good posts by Elena so I'm bringing this older thread up again.
This is precisely the reason I lost total respect for my ex and left him over Landmark. If he had been sucked in unwittingly, during the pre-Internet age, that would be one thing. But I was SCREAMING from the sidelines at him as he traipsed along, ignoring me in his callow self-absorbed psychological death-wish, batting away the reams of evidence against Landmark that I tried to hand him . . . there is no excuse for this. None.
Even now he won't do his own homework but so graciously offers that I can keep taking time and energy out of my life to "send him some links" about Landmark and he might be willing to listen as long as I'm not "furious."
Oh . . . fuck that.
I am furious. And disgusted.
Before I ended it with him two days ago -- truly and totally because I am just stomach-twisting ill inside from all this pathetic nonsense -- I sent him many threads about LGAT casualties. The young man who "snapped" in Crestone, CO and disappeared, the woman who jumped out of a window in Australia, Charla Mack being decapitated by her obviously "out of integrity" husband and Landmark leader, Darren Mack. I sent him some threads from Sonnie_Dee writing about the abuses that go on behind the scenes at Landmark.
What do you want to bet he doesn't read this stuff? And if he does, he goes to the Advanced Course anyway?
Can anyone say PA_FUCKING_THETIC????
Man, I've cursed more on this board than I did in junior high. Sorry, folks, but what can I say. I'm pissed.
He told me, in defense of Landmark, that from his perspective the whole thing is about "inspiring people to greatness." I nearly lost my lunch on that one.
Oh . . woe is me. Inspiring people to greatness.
Elena, if you're around, help me out here. Can you help me articulate why these words have a sickening effect on normal humans?
I couldn't agree more Vlinden
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