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corboy
Elena I want to send you a PM, but your 'sent' file is full so Ive not been able to
do it.
Corboy
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MarkusWelchQuote
caligariQuote
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caligari
I'm surprised that hynosis isn't brought up more in discussing Landmark and it's methods, particularly in journalistic articles. It's possible to discount brainwashing since it's a term that loosely used and often not exact. It's original meaning was though reform through physically coerced methods like the North Korean origins. This can be contested. Hypnosis is pretty clearly in use and unethically.
I would just like to point out that whether you call it "brainwashing," "thought reform," or "covert persuasion," Ofshe and Singer, in their essay, "Attacks on Peripheral versus Central Elements of Self and the Impact of Thought Reforming Techniques," explain and differentiate between first-generation and second-generation tactics and second-generation ones used by such groups as Landmark and Lifespring as well as the better-known cults are that much more effective because they are "uncoerced" seductions and target "central" or more primal elements of self as opposed to "peripheral," which include such things as political persuasion, national identity, and fraternal affiliations.
Ellen
That is one source with a interesting, perhaps accurate and useful description of the techniques. But, in over 30 years of reporting on organizations like Landmark, terms like cult and brainwashing have not had significant impact. It was facts like the sexual and physical abuse by Werner and his associates in the 60 minutes piece that had immediate impact. It is provable facts like unethical use of hypnosis -- which has decades of scientific evidence from many sources -- that I see as useful. Terms and claims that can be disputed and argued over lead to mostly that.
I don't think significant impact would result here. By the time there is a shift in thinking, a "tipping point" if you will, that begins to accept or 'mainstream' hypnosis itself, Landmark will admit to using it in "new" courses based on the most recent technology and maybe follow it up by saying it works.
I think you would need that large or popular recognition of hypnosis prior to claiming any person or org used it unethically to cause an uproar IMO...but once it is recognized as legit, landmark will claim to use it.
Just my $.02
Regards,
Markus
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notmuch4games
I have been following you guys for a couple of days now. Some very good info on this thread. I have a question-please give me some imput so I can understand how it works.....
Can someone tell me exactly how LM uses hypnosis on it's victims? Is there music, or some other trigger that they send recruits home with to "remind" them of their goals?
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corboy
By all means, yes we need to keep educating the public about the impact
of hypnosis, and also of sleep deprivation and even scripted room set ups
(eg the drew kopp article)
But, it will be difficult to get this across, because it runs counter to a cherished
and inaccurate perception that many have--that our minds are our own private
turf, that our minds and emotions are our own and under our conscious, willed control.
Any suggestion that this supposedly private part of ourselves is highly malleable to outside influences, especially when covert, triggers outrage and anxiety.
And it is this assumption that our minds are our own private turf, impervious to outside influence that makes us so vulnerable in relation to any person or group who KNOWS that this is not so, that human beings are social, and that our minds and selves can, all too easily be de-constructed and disrupted by anyone who has the skill to do the job--and can coax us into a setting where this can take place.
As mentioned on another thread, the impact of sleep deprivation, all by itself, is profoundly disruptive to thought and emotion.
We are so easily influenced by fear of social embarassment and by what others think.
When depressed, we are easily conned into buying or even eating stuff that we dont need.
There are times when it is a much greater source of mental and emotional power to know how potentially influencable we are---because this gives us an incentive to learn what our trigger points are, and how to avoid persons or situations that are risky.
Those who love to eat, and know that some situations and foods are triggers for them, have a pre-planned strategy for holiday parties to ensure they dont get triggered.
Really alert dieters will even know what to do if, at a party, something happens to upset them and have a strategy to ensure they'll not react by eating too much.
That recognition of one's influence--ability/vulnerability is a greater source of personal power than going to a party and saying,'I'll just use my will power.'
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caligari
Traditionally those honestly practicing a method like magic have exposed charlatans. At the end of his career, Houdini focused on exposing mediums,
[houdini.net]
. Recently Penn & Teller have exposed fake spiritualists on their Showtime program, "Bullshit!",
[www.sho.com]
. It would be nice to have knowledgeable hypnotists exposing Landmark's use of hypnosis.
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notmuch4games
I have been following you guys for a couple of days now. Some very good info on this thread. I have a question-please give me some imput so I can understand how it works.....
Can someone tell me exactly how LM uses hypnosis on it's victims? Is there music, or some other trigger that they send recruits home with to "remind" them of their goals?