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Zorro
It became absolutely clear to me this morning that Landmark uses hypnosis during the Forum, Advanced Course, and Advanced Communications Course. Those are the three that jump out at me. I realized this because yesterday I learned a mechanism for Hypnosis.

The mechanism used in the Fear Exercise in the Forum is very similar to the one I learned about. Pretty good way of instilling fear into individuals if you ask me!

The Advanced Course is rife with Hypnosis techniques, at least from what I can tell. A good one is where the participants stare into each others eyes while they are standing just a few inches away from each other while the course leader is giving the participants guided images. I believe the Advanced Course is designed to totally blow out and short circuit a persons brain and personality and set them up for reprogramming at a deeper level.

The Advanced Communications course uses a technique (during the Sunday evening portion) that is almost identical to the one the Forum used. It is also during a fear based exercise as well.

I'm sure there are other instances where hypnosis is used. But those are the three most blatant examples that I can think of at this moment.

This is very insidious...I didn't asked to be hypnotised by Landmark and I sure as hell didn't knowingly consent to it! Neither did anyone else that I am aware of.

Are there any other instances out there other than these that people can point to that Landmark has used?

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skeptic

Ellen, I guess you're saying that IF one can see the truth the CON is no longer working. The nature of a successful con is that it does not look like a con. I see what you're saying.

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elena
There have been long term victims who have written about a separate or parallel "self," awareness, or consciousness hidden away from the cult "self" that quietly records the real truth and acts as a dump or repository for all the doubts, questions, skepticism, humor, and other un-cult-like thoughts or impulses. They describe this awareness as something they attempt to ignore, though it seems to have a life of its own and often asserts itself in sleep or times of stress. They use cult techniques to silence it, often blaming themselves for their inability to destroy it completely.

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Zorro

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elena
There have been long term victims who have written about a separate or parallel "self," awareness, or consciousness hidden away from the cult "self" that quietly records the real truth and acts as a dump or repository for all the doubts, questions, skepticism, humor, and other un-cult-like thoughts or impulses. They describe this awareness as something they attempt to ignore, though it seems to have a life of its own and often asserts itself in sleep or times of stress. They use cult techniques to silence it, often blaming themselves for their inability to destroy it completely.

I remember the course leaders talking about this in Landmark. I can't exactly recall if they had a name for it. But they said that it was the voice inside of us that tells us not to do something and keeps us from progressing. I also recall them saying that the voice wasn't us at all. We also had to work to over come the voice but it will always be there.

Even then I really didn't buy into that crap. I knew that the voice they were referring to was only me questioning what ever it was at the time. It wasn't someother entity, it was me. It was/is my intuition, my gut instinct, my ability to sense things, my bull sh*t meter. It rarely lets me down, but while I was in Landmark I did turn it way down.

But ever since leaving Landmark it's been cranked way up! Heck in some instances it's working better than it ever has before. Not much gets past me anymore, I may not let on to people at times that I know what's going on but I do. I test everything now for BS especially if its a new avenue I'm traveling down.

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Zorro
It became absolutely clear to me this morning that Landmark uses hypnosis during the Forum, Advanced Course, and Advanced Communications Course. Those are the three that jump out at me. I realized this because yesterday I learned a mechanism for Hypnosis.

The mechanism used in the Fear Exercise in the Forum is very similar to the one I learned about. Pretty good way of instilling fear into individuals if you ask me!

The Advanced Course is rife with Hypnosis techniques, at least from what I can tell. A good one is where the participants stare into each others eyes while they are standing just a few inches away from each other while the course leader is giving the participants guided images. I believe the Advanced Course is designed to totally blow out and short circuit a persons brain and personality and set them up for reprogramming at a deeper level.

The Advanced Communications course uses a technique (during the Sunday evening portion) that is almost identical to the one the Forum used. It is also during a fear based exercise as well.

I'm sure there are other instances where hypnosis is used. But those are the three most blatant examples that I can think of at this moment.

This is very insidious...I didn't asked to be hypnotised by Landmark and I sure as hell didn't knowingly consent to it! Neither did anyone else that I am aware of.

Are there any other instances out there other than these that people can point to that Landmark has used?

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caligari
I'm surprised that hynosis isn't brought up more in discussing Landmark and it's methods, particularly in journalistic articles. It's possible to discount brainwashing since it's a term that loosely used and often not exact. It's original meaning was though reform through physically coerced methods like the North Korean origins. This can be contested. Hypnosis is pretty clearly in use and unethically.[/quote

I would just like to point out that whether you call it "brainwashing," "thought reform," or "covert persuasion," Ofshe and Singer, in their essay, "Attacks on Peripheral versus Central Elements of Self and the Impact of Thought Reforming Techniques," explain and differentiate between first-generation and second-generation tactics and second-generation ones used by such groups as Landmark and Lifespring as well as the better-known cults are that much more effective because they are "uncoerced" seductions and target "central" or more primal elements of self as opposed to "peripheral," which include such things as political persuasion, national identity, and fraternal affiliations.


Ellen

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elena

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caligari
I'm surprised that hynosis isn't brought up more in discussing Landmark and it's methods, particularly in journalistic articles. It's possible to discount brainwashing since it's a term that loosely used and often not exact. It's original meaning was though reform through physically coerced methods like the North Korean origins. This can be contested. Hypnosis is pretty clearly in use and unethically.[/quote

I would just like to point out that whether you call it "brainwashing," "thought reform," or "covert persuasion," Ofshe and Singer, in their essay, "Attacks on Peripheral versus Central Elements of Self and the Impact of Thought Reforming Techniques," explain and differentiate between first-generation and second-generation tactics and second-generation ones used by such groups as Landmark and Lifespring as well as the better-known cults are that much more effective because they are "uncoerced" seductions and target "central" or more primal elements of self as opposed to "peripheral," which include such things as political persuasion, national identity, and fraternal affiliations.


Ellen

That is one source with a interesting, perhaps accurate and useful description of the techniques. But, in over 30 years of reporting on organizations like Landmark, terms like cult and brainwashing have not had significant impact. It was facts like the sexual and physical abuse by Werner and his associates in the 60 minutes piece that had immediate impact. It is provable facts like unethical use of hypnosis -- which has decades of scientific evidence from many sources -- that I see as useful. Terms and claims that can be disputed and argued over lead to mostly that.

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caligari
It became absolutely clear to me this morning that Landmark uses hypnosis during the Forum, Advanced Course, and Advanced Communications Course. Those are the three that jump out at me. I realized this because yesterday I learned a mechanism for Hypnosis.

I'm surprised that hypnosis isn't brought up more in discussing Landmark and it's methods, particularly in journalistic articles. It's possible to discount brainwashing since it's a term that loosely used and often not exact. It's original meaning was though reform through physically coerced methods like the North Korean origins. This can be contested. Hypnosis is pretty clearly in use and unethically.

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caligari

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elena

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caligari
I'm surprised that hynosis isn't brought up more in discussing Landmark and it's methods, particularly in journalistic articles. It's possible to discount brainwashing since it's a term that loosely used and often not exact. It's original meaning was though reform through physically coerced methods like the North Korean origins. This can be contested. Hypnosis is pretty clearly in use and unethically.

I would just like to point out that whether you call it "brainwashing," "thought reform," or "covert persuasion," Ofshe and Singer, in their essay, "Attacks on Peripheral versus Central Elements of Self and the Impact of Thought Reforming Techniques," explain and differentiate between first-generation and second-generation tactics and second-generation ones used by such groups as Landmark and Lifespring as well as the better-known cults are that much more effective because they are "uncoerced" seductions and target "central" or more primal elements of self as opposed to "peripheral," which include such things as political persuasion, national identity, and fraternal affiliations.


Ellen

That is one source with a interesting, perhaps accurate and useful description of the techniques. But, in over 30 years of reporting on organizations like Landmark, terms like cult and brainwashing have not had significant impact. It was facts like the sexual and physical abuse by Werner and his associates in the 60 minutes piece that had immediate impact. It is provable facts like unethical use of hypnosis -- which has decades of scientific evidence from many sources -- that I see as useful. Terms and claims that can be disputed and argued over lead to mostly that.