People need to be educated as to the vital importance of protecting sleep and that one must be able to refuse and if necessary LEAVE any program
or relationship that keeps you past bedtime, puts you under stress, especially if you have a genetic background for bipolar affective disorder, or even attention deficit disorder

Lots of URLs here.

[board.culteducation.com]

A further discussion with additional URLs

[board.culteducation.com]

We do not have enough information to say that the LEC facilitators LF described as sleeping on mattresses are 'on the brink' of mania.

To say that would require a personal exam by a professional, and I am not qualified.

But...anyone running that short on sleep is according to that young physicians study, impaired, as if DUI.

Its probably unlikely that someone with bipolar would last long term as a LEC volunteer or paid employee, because they'd be so likely to get destabilized by the long hours that they'd go manic and be unable to behave in the controlled precise way required by program protocol.

But any subject paying to do the course who has biochemical predisposition to bipolar...that's someone who might well be at risk.

No, I dont have info on whether insomniacs would be more vulnerable to brainwashing.

Under enough pressure, most of us become vulnerable. But, someone already running low on sleep probably would be at some additional risk.

For this we need imput from a professional--these are my educated guesses.

The problem is, our whole culture devalues sleep.

A real human potential project would ensure that every darned one of us got 8 hours at least of quality snooze each night, every night.

Most of us have little idea how much better we would feel if that were the case.

Sleep as a human right.

A Human Potential Project called [i:ffdc3b5ab7]8 Hours a Night[/i:ffdc3b5ab7]

I like it.

I think anyone and everyone could be at risk. The sleep deprivation combined with the primal/hypno therapy may send even the most stable person over the edge. Perhaps people with a pre-disposition towards schizophrenia, bi-polar disorder or any other mental disorder will be affected more quickly or more adversely, but I don't think one can say that they are the only people who can be distablized by the Landmark/EST et al courses.

'shad'

When I helped to set the rooms for an ILP weekend they were totally anal about the chairs being aligned correctly and having the right number of chairs. We worked late into the night moving and arranging chairs. It bordered on the ridiculus. Especially because the people incharge couldn't even make up their mind on how it should be set up. They couldn't think for themselves. I kept asking....don't we have any notes on how this place is supposed to be set up?.....how did you do it the last time?....Their reply was no we don't have any. It's supposed to be this way. I was shocked :shock: because such a large so called professional organization didn't even know how a room was supposed to be set up.

Maybe it was a mind control tactic the people in charge we using on us drones?

Landmark is totally anal about having a room set up correctly. At each break the rooms are set up again for the students. They are anal right down to how paragraphs are written on a chalk board. I saw a guy spend hours writing a paragraph on a chalk board. Paying excruciating detail to how each letter was formed and the spacing between them. If something was wrong with how it was written, it was a big deal.

I read Dr. Roxanne Mountford's essay on Landmark; "Invisible Bodies, the Disinherited, and the Production of Space in the Landmark Forum, which is quite long, but deals how managing the space of the room is actually very integral to part of the "indoctrination"... it is very purposeful, and in fact the "volunteers" have to use tape measures and masking tape to make sure that each chair is EXACTLY the same number of inches apart.

You are right, it is 'anal'. Have you ever lived with someone, or had a friend who needs EVERYTHING in EXACTLY the same place day in and day out., (we lovingly/laughingly call them 'control freaks') but I guess a clinician would call them an obsessive compulsive.

People who have to control other people, and who have to have their environment are usually people who have a lot of chaos in their heads, and the only way they can achieve the 'Illusion" of control is to control what is outside of them. Someone made a good point about the Leaders. I wonder when we will see them "meltdown", hopefully soon and all at once.

But having said all that, go to the link about Dr. Mountford and read her paper, it is very enlightening. (long, and kind of academic, but if you plow through it you will understand the impact of the way the room is set up).

I am trying to say a lot with not too many words, so this comment sounds a bit muddled.

'shad'

hi Zorro,
You are probably right; part of the insistence of having everything uniform all the time IS probably a way the Leaders keep CONTROL of the volunteers.

But I also wonder how much is also part of a pathology in the psychy of the Leaders. Perhaps they have become unwitting victims of their own "technology" -- a case of the blind leading the blind, eh?

'shad'

Shad,

I believe that often times the staff and leaders may be victims themselves. From what I saw everyone at some point started out as a guest of someone to either the Landmark Forum or EST. Then they latched on to Landmark/EST ideology and decided to dedicate themselves to transforming peoples lives, through various degrees / levels of participation such as leading a introduction, being a course leader, etc.

This leads me to another thing.....Some of these people are people with good intentions originally that wanted to help out others. But don't realize that in actuality that through Landmark they are actually doing more harm than good. That is even more sinister to think about it....recruit people, brainwash them (the ones with leadership qualities) and use them to go and brainwash more people. Makes me want to hurl my breakfast.

Landmark really wanted me to be a leader and some even told me that they could see me leading a Forum (which gave me chills even then). I wasn't afraid to take on leadership resposibilities and have the outward characteristics and personality that would make a good leader for the Forum or a Seminar.

Quote
Zorro
Shad,
Landmark really wanted me to be a leader and some even told me that they could see me leading a Forum (which gave me chills even then). I wasn't afraid to take on leadership resposibilities and have the outward characteristics and personality that would make a good leader for the Forum or a Seminar.

My ex told me she thought I would make a great Forum leader a few months ago. I had the same response. I have a career helping people. Why would I give that up to work for a questionable corporation whose policies I find questionable and unethical at the very least.

Vic-Luc,

Exactly!

I have a career in Industrial Sales where I not only have to convince people and corporations to buy my products and services I have to provide help to the customer whenever I'm called on. I'm disgusted at the thought that I was even associated with Landmark. I feel that it has actually jepordized my career and I'm currently doing damage control because of it. Try that on for size (racket) Landmark! Not only did I waste about 9 months of time and effort, it actually set me back about a year and a half or more overall.

I wonder how many careers and reputations Landmark has torpedoed. I would like to hear from some people that have had this happen to them. Luckily I managed to catch on before things got to out of hand. I wonder how many people have gone from being successful to down and out because of Landmark and using its methodologies.

Quote
Zorro
Vic-Luc,

Exactly!

I have a career in Industrial Sales where I not only have to convince people and corporations to buy my products and services I have to provide help to the customer whenever I'm called on. I'm disgusted at the thought that I was even associated with Landmark. I feel that it has actually jepordized my career and I'm currently doing damage control because of it. Try that on for size (racket) Landmark! Not only did I waste about 9 months of time and effort, it actually set me back about a year and a half or more overall.

I wonder how many careers and reputations Landmark has torpedoed. I would like to hear from some people that have had this happen to them. Luckily I managed to catch on before things got to out of hand. I wonder how many people have gone from being successful to down and out because of Landmark and using its methodologies.

It affected my career, this is for sure. Just being part of her plans to "be extraoridinary," I would've had to move states and jeopardizing licensing...just so she could "live near a center." I was asked to violate INS/DHH laws regarding marriage and residence.

And I had to keep asking myself the big question:

"When she starts pitching to my colleagues after we're married, how fast is my career going to go down the toilet?"