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Re: Mice Running in Place on the Linoleum Floor - Landmark
Posted by: kdag ()
Date: May 31, 2017 08:04PM

This part about our nervous systems is very disturbing.

If I am reading this right, what is being talked about here are parts of our brains which we can't easily access to "undo" what's been done to us at will.  In other words, as the effects are physical,  we can't just "think our way out of it." From an ethical standpoint, even without the use of a substance, the deliberate manipulation of someone else's nervous system, without informed consent, would be the equivalent of slipping someone a "roofie."

Even a doctor needs signed, informed consent before doing anything to, or treating,  someone's body. To do so without that is malpractice. And these people aren't even doctors.

The following paragraph is the ONLY place I can find in the consent form that gives any description at all of what the Landmark  program IS. 
As anyone who has ever signed a consent form knows, consent covers only those things, which are listed.  
Since nothing else is listed, THIS is then the only thing that anyone has consented to in signing this form:

"2. The Programme is a unique course of instruction designed to support people in being more effective in realising their own personal and societal goals. Through a series of philosophically rigorous and open discussions, voluntary sharing of your experience and short exercises, the Programme provides an opportunity to explore basic questions that have been of interest to human beings throughout time and to examine many aspects of your own life. In the Programme, people come to grips with what it means to be human — not as a mere classroom exercise, but as a rigorous enquiry. The Programme offers a unique technology through which people create new possibilities for their lives.

3. In the Programme, you will enquire into fundamental issues that have been of interest and concern to us as human beings. The experience of the Programme is unique to each individual and there is no way to predict in advance exactly what you may think or feel. It is normal for some people to experience unwanted or unfamiliar emotions from time to time, such as fear, anger, sadness, regret, hatred, irritation and impatience. For most participants, exploring thoughts and feelings that they have not fully explored before is a useful and positive learning experience. Some participants have found that exploring life’s issues honestly may evoke uncomfortable and unpleasant feelings. For others, the Programme may occur as physically, mentally and emotionally seriously distressing."

It then goes on to say:

"If you are unwilling to encounter any of these powerful experiences in yourself or in others, or if you have any concern about your ability to deal with such experiences, the mental health professionals who advise Landmark Education (our advisers) strongly recommend that you do not participate in the programme." 

Even with warnings of physical discomfort, the way that the form is worded, it looks to me as if they are saying that these physical,  psychological,  and emotional effects are a possible result of the discussions and "rigorous enquiry" taking place in the program.

Furthermore, while they may advise us to ask our therapists or doctors, if we have doubts as to whether or not we should take these courses, the lack of disclosure as to how our bodies are targeted would also make it impossible for any doctor or therapist to give informed advice on the matter.

As far as I can see, NOWHERE does it say anything about doing anything physical to anyone.  L.E. apparently does have psychologists or psychiatrists with whom they consult, BUT participants do not have a therapeutic relationship with any of these people,  nor has anyone signed a form giving consent for treatment.

Here's a link back to the thread with the consent form:

It seems to me that LGATS overstep and invalidate their own consent forms. This form may legally protect them from any harmful consequences of the discussions and "rigorous enquiries" alone, but that's ALL it would protect them from, IMHO.

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2014 Landmark still reportedly putting the chairs inches apart
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 25, 2017 10:26PM



We sat in very uncomfortable chairs that were spaced very closely together. The chairs were positioned six aside in each row with a path separating the two sides where Barry Terry would attempt to mesmerize the crowd over the next couple of days.

Now take in mind that this was a large hall that could have easily fit double the crowd, so there was plenty of space in this room to move the chairs around to allow for more comfort, but for some reason they thought placing us shoulder to shoulder was more appropriate. It made economy seating on an airplane seem spacious.

For a weekend long seminar that costs $650 for the three days you think they would provide you at least a little bit of physical comfort to help the information sink in. Their common solution to this nagging discomfort was to stand in the back corner of the room from time to time stretching out your muscle pain from their agonizing chair layout.


This was a three day seminar which was held between the hours of 9am and 10pm Friday, Saturday and Sunday. You are given two half hour breaks every 2.5 hours and then a 1.5 dinner break over the course of the 13 hour day.

(Corboy note: seminar ends at 10 PM. But, after a stressful day, how quickly can a person fall asleep? Factor in the lag time of going to the bathroom, finding your transportation, getting home.

In addition, Landmark assigns homework. All this is likely to add up to disrupted sleep. And, contrary to what anyone in Landmark says, sleep deprivation fucks up critical thinking. A program that is educational and NOT
indoctrinational would ensure people get a good night's sleep.

Sleep Deprivation - a few articles


Sleep deprivation interferes with education. A study from Harvard.

Sleep, Learning and Memory - December 18, 2007


Lack of Sleep Blights Pupil's Education - BBC News - Business

[] (May 2013)

Sleep Deprivation High School - Stanford School of Medicine October, 2015



“I think high school is the real danger spot in terms of sleep deprivation,” said William Dement, MD, PhD, founder of the Stanford Sleep Disorders Clinic, the first of its kind in the world. “It’s a huge problem. What it means is that nobody performs at the level they could perform,” whether it’s in school, on the roadways, on the sports field or in terms of physical and emotional health.

Landmark and homework



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Search Results
Landmark Forums: Getting in Touch With Feelings - The New York Times
Nov 26, 2010 - ... the Forum is the cornerstone workshop of Landmark Education, ... us the previous night's homework — write a letter to someone you've been ...
Landmark education homework
Landmark Education, Landmark Worldwide, the Forum. We will be asked to complete exercises, chiefly verbal, and homework assignments at night. We have.
Inside The Landmark Forum | HuffPost
Mar 5, 2008 - I arranged with the Landmark Education Forum to take the seminar in ... Homework assignmenst were to call our loved ones and apologize for ...

(Corboy butting in - you've left the LEC training at 10 PM and as a homework assignment you're calling your loved ones to apologize. You're doing all this to yourself and to them late at night. How you are gonna get to sleep after this. Plus you've made your loved one's endure all this as well. You're gonna be running short on sleep at next day's Landmark training, your mind's going to be hamburger and your emotions labile. You're abused and you're abusing your loved ones too. )

Investigation: is the Landmark Forum a cult? | UK news | The Guardian
[] › World › UK News
Dec 13, 2003 - When I signed up to a course held by Landmark Education, I wanted to ... There is one meal break in the early evening and more homework ...
Review of Landmark Education's The Wisdom Course - It's Not a Cult
Oct 27, 2010 - Is Landmark Education a cult? We think that ... in -Landmark Education,Wisdom Course ... Tips for success, – Do all the homework. All of it!

Landmark Education Websites - Self Improvement from › Websites › Success Skills
The Landmark Forum, the foundation of all Landmark Education's programs, is designed to ... Get assignment writing solution and homework help online from ...

How I Really Feel About Landmark Education | In the Limelight
Feb 17, 2012 - I have previously written about Landmark Education, first in an article ... the homework and, as someone else said above, pull the course to you.
Landmark Forum - Day 2 - Cult Education Forum
Dec 3, 2006 - 10 posts - ?9 authors
Anyway, I gotta do my homework and go to sleep! .... supposed to be treated, and the criminal malpractice of Landmark Education will be clear.
Landmark Education Visitor Comments - Cult Education Institute
Landmark Education, Landmark Worldwide, the Forum. ... She began doing very odd things as 'homework projects' for Landmark. She also became highly ..

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2017 10:26PM by corboy.

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Re: 2014 Landmark still reportedly putting the chairs inches apart
Posted by: kdag ()
Date: October 26, 2017 05:14AM

corboy -

Yes! And another little nugget: they tell you to "sleep fast!," as if you need one more thing to PREVENT relaxation. Of course, with their odd precision in language, that can be taken in two different ways, but in the context and tone it was used, they were saying "Hurry up and sleep!"
It made me feel as if they were stressing that I didn't have time to sleep.

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Sleep Deprivation is part of the LGAT destabilization process
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 07, 2017 09:02PM

As you become more tired, the more your capacity for critical thinking is impaired.
Which compromises the learning process but just the thing for indoctrination.

Many Large Group Awareness Trainings end in the evening, and subjects are given homework assignments.

All this means they stay awake long past their normal bedtimes.

Even a small amount of sleep deprivation combined with the high stress of the LGAT workday is more than enough to disrupt critical thinking and soften us up for indoctrination.




The 12 patients, who were set to have surgery at UCLA to treat their condition, had electrodes implanted in their brains aimed at seeking out the root of their seizures. People undergoing this procedure stay awake all night, as a lack of sleep can bring on epileptic attacks.

While awake, the subjects were asked to sort a variety of images in the shortest time they could. Across the participants, the electrodes recorded almost 1,500 brain cells firing as they carried out the task.

Performing the task was more difficult the more tired the patients became, and their brain cells slowed accordingly.

“We were fascinated to observe how sleep deprivation dampened brain cell activity,” said Yuval Nir of Tel Aviv University.

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Re: Sleep Deprivation is part of the LGAT destabilization process
Posted by: kdag ()
Date: November 09, 2017 02:46PM

Yes, and when they have you in the sleep-deprived state, they engage you in conversations that seem designed to tie your mind in knots more than anything else. I never saw any brilliant, "bolt of lightening" solutions offered up.

If you were frustrated in achieving a goal, the solution was often to change or redefine the goal. The conversations seemed to drift away from your original intent. It seems to make sense when you're exhausted, but after sleeping on it, you would realize that the "possibility" you created under the guidance of the people at L.E. is not something that you would even want.

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Re: Manipulating the room's environment
Posted by: GloriaG ()
Date: November 10, 2017 01:32AM

It was the devious calculation of these methods which I found most disturbing when I first discovered them back in 2010 via this forum.

Throughout the first Forum weekend, our course leader kept saying - "you're going to pop on Monday afternoon."

I had no idea what he meant until I experienced a natural dopamine high induced by all these techniques to stress out my nervous system over those 3 days.

If you had told me in advance that this was possible, I would not have believed you but it did happen to me. That rainy Monday in March, the world look beautiful and I wanted to hug everybody. And others said how well I looked which surprised me as I was at a low point in my life.

The experience was pleasant but also unnerving because I instinctively knew something wasn't right.

And it is during this state that they encourage you to make life changing and risky decisions.

Beware folks. That is not a good way to make choices which can affect the rest of your life.

I was lucky that I didn't do that but the pressure was on me to do that.

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Social media Addiction used to enhance LGATs after seminar?
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 12, 2017 12:21AM

Sean Parker, ex-President of Facebook has publicly admitted
that FB from the beginning, long long ago, intentionally
designed its site to exploit human psychology - and diddle

Sean Parker and other Silicon Valley leaders would never, ever have
wanted their products used to enhance and entrench indoctrination
into exploitative groups.

But this is something now worth looking at -- by any human being who uses
a smartphone.

We already know that terrorists are successfully recruiting and radicalizing
people via social media.

Those who designed social media to be not only attractive but addictive never
in the beginning intended that a group such as ISIS benefit from using Facebook or Smartphone technology.

But this is what happened.

Those of us seeking to free ourselves from exploitative groups and gurus
not only have to combat the pervasive influence of the indoctrination
loaded into us during LGAT workshops and toxic meditation retreats;
We have to remove all traces of those entities from our Facebook pages and
from our Smartphones.

Those social media products were designed to be attractive and trigger
compulsive usage. What a way to enhance the lingering impact of any
indoctrination process. The group can get at you 24-7 after you've gone home from the seminar.


Ex-Facebook president Sean Parker: site made to exploit human 'vulnerability'

Site’s founding president, who became a billionaire thanks to the company, says: ‘God only knows what it’s doing to our children’s brains’



Parker, whose stake in Facebook made him a billionaire, criticized the social networking giant at an Axios event in Philadelphia this week.


Now the founder and chair of the Parker Institute for Cancer Immunotherapy, Parker was there to speak about advances in cancer therapies. However, he took the time to provide some insight into the early thinking at Facebook at a time when social media companies face intense scrutiny from lawmakers over their power and influence.

Parker described how in the early days of Facebook people would tell him they weren’t on social media because they valued their real-life interactions.

“And I would say, ‘OK. You know, you will be,’” he said.

“I don’t know if I really understood the consequences of what I was saying,” he added, pointing to “unintended consequences” that arise when a network grows to have more than 2 billion users.

“It literally changes your relationship with society, with each other. It probably interferes with productivity in weird ways. God only knows what it’s doing to our children’s brains,” he said.

He explained that when Facebook was being developed the objective was: “How do we consume as much of your time and conscious attention as possible?” It was this mindset that led to the creation of features such as the “like” button that would give users “a little dopamine hit” to encourage them to upload more content.

“It’s a social-validation feedback loop … exactly the kind of thing that a hacker like myself would come up with, because you’re exploiting a vulnerability in human psychology.”

From a former Silicon Valley engineer, now training to be a neurosurgeon:



More and more, we are ready to recognize the extent to which our
behavior and decision making is being affected by social media

Time to take this new insight and apply it to methods used by LGATs.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2017 01:10AM by corboy.

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Re: Social media Addiction used to enhance LGATs after seminar?
Posted by: kdag ()
Date: November 12, 2017 07:50AM

Carboy wrote:

"More and more, we are ready to recognize the extent to which our
behavior and decision making is being affected by social media."

Yes, and anything seen on social media definitely needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

One of the things that scares me about this is that we really have no idea of who is actually sitting at that other, unseen computer. I have especially noticed myself wondering about this in posts that seem race-baiting, gay-bashing, or any attack on entire groups of people. Someone claiming to be a person of color, and making extremely inflammatory posts about whites, for example, could actually be an old Klukker sitting at the computer in his underwear, trying to stir the pot.

Then people who have had their buttons pushed react, which it seems was the intent of the post to begin with. LGATS seem calculated to have the same effect. In fact, L.E. forum leaders have been known to declare to an entire room, "I could piss you all off in about 10 seconds!"

They are black belt button-pushers.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2017 07:52AM by kdag.

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Re: Manipulating the room's environment
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 24, 2018 08:31PM

Sleep Scientist Warns Against Walking Through Life 'In An Underslept State'

July 20, 20181:52 PM ET
Heard on Fresh Air


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Re: Manipulating the room's environment
Posted by: kdag ()
Date: July 25, 2018 12:27PM

That's a great link on the effects of not enough sleep, corboy. I recognize a lot of that in myself.

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