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ON2 LF
I believe we were all destined to grow into pillars of some sort or another, but I never figured on LGAT parasites invading and devouring the inner core of a pillar, just to watch it fall.

Great symbolism / anaglogy. I'm treating my experience with the Landmark LGAT like a building construction project after a natural disaster. I still have my old blue prints. But now after my LGAT encounter I've taken notes, revised my blue prints, and finishing what I started. But this time the construct is much stronger, better prepared, and still as wonderful as before.

We can't let these guy's knock us down. We must stand up, dust ourselves off, and continue on as better people. If we let ourselves crumble they've won. For me as an individual I'm going to fight these Bastards every chance I get. Each person I can prevent Landmark from getting is a win and if what I say causes someone to leave Landmark I'll count that as a win too.

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We can't let these guy's knock us down. We must stand up, dust ourselves off, and continue on as better people. If we let ourselves crumble they've won. For me as an individual I'm going to fight these Bastards every chance I get. Each person I can prevent Landmark from getting is a win and if what I say causes someone to leave Landmark I'll count that as a win too.

I hear ya, I console myself with that same kind of thinking. I think I've prevented [u:2b0ac52e79]many[/u:2b0ac52e79] people so far, from getting suckered by scambaggers like landmark. I know those people will pass the message forward and onward goes the message from those other people... If I can prevent thousands and thousands of people from being sucked into landmark or any other LGAT, I will feel somewhat better about the one friend I lost to their cult. I'm pretty sure I've turned more people away from landmark in the last year or so than my friend has been able to recruit new members, by far. Its easier and much more effective to tell the truth then to spin a lie big enough to rack up numbers.
In the courts of honesty and integrity, landmark can never enter to play... 8) it would be like dracula trying to enter into the daylight.

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ON2 LF

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Be a pillar first and then find your church, club, community.

That's the hard part though, [b:7875dd669d]if we could be pillars first, we wouldn't [i:7875dd669d]need[/i:7875dd669d] anyone else[/b:7875dd669d]. The truth is, we become pillars on the strength and nurture of other people, that's just how we're made, no one stands alone and remains strong.

I don't think that's right. Sure, many who join organisations are looking for outside help to 'grow'. It'll happen regardless. The point I was trying to make is that we shouldn't lose our sense of self (whatever that may be) in any relationship with another person or organisation. From my experience, a relationship's overall health is proportional to the strength of each of its members. Sure, there's always scope in a strong, healthy relationship for 'lapses' and 'foolishness', but IMO, without a level of 'pillarness' from a participant, there's too much room for abuse. It won't always happen.

What am I trying to say? Basically, I think you have to be aware of the potential dangers of joining any relationship or organisation if you're going in half-dressed and half-witted (in the loveliest way possible, of course).

And there is always growth. Always.

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The point I was trying to make is that we shouldn't lose our sense of self (whatever that may be) in any relationship with another person or organisation.

Agreed. It is just unfortunate that many feel a need to be affirmed by others in that sense of 'self', and do end up losing that 'self' identity when they happen upon an unhealthy circle of people.

And nothing wrong in the right context to want a 'helping hand' or 'pat on the back'. I suppose it's a kind of dance. You can't lead all the time, but you can't be a dead weight, either.

With regard to 'knowing ourselves', I don't mean for this to be set in stone. In fact, a 'petrified' psychology is certain cause for an early death (IMO). An interesting word is 'wicca', which means 'to bend' and it's something I occassionally remind myself of when I feel myself getting stuck in a rut. You know, even the pillar has to know when to bend so it doesn't break ...

Wicca is also a form of free thinking paganism. You know something, I've never met a Lekkie that is a Wiccan. I guess its the thinking for yourself part and expression of individuality that the Lekkie cant grasp. Or maybe the reason I never met a Wiccan in Landmark was because Landmark weeded them out for fear they might piss off one and spell might get cast on the place :lol:

I have to add to this comment about Wicca.

I've traveled through many New Age scenes, and the Pagan and Wiccan scene is absolutely rife with loonies and wackos of every stripe.

However, that said, Wicca is very beautiful and the reason why people are drawn to it is because it's about getting back in touch with the earth, with the natural world, and connecting your awareness to the greater reality of Nature, and all its beauty and wildness.

This seems totally counter to what the LGAT experience is about. Nature is wild, mysterious, and seems to have order and (gasp) meaning, that we don't rationally understand, maybe because we didn't make it ourselves, it is bigger than we are and older and has its own wisdom.

But we are part of that wisdom, only you don't come to a place of being at one with that when you're sitting in a stuffy conference room needing to piss so bad you can taste it, being told you're running rackets, blah blah blah.

Get these poor Landmark and LGAT victims out into the fresh air, get some grass under their feet, give them a joint, show them the sun and the stars.

There are no answers, and really, no rackets, only this beautiful, beautiful mystery. And our stories are beautiful too, we shouldn't try to shed them or deny them, we should own them, and own our past, and love ourselves, and everything that has shaped us, including our pain.

Jesus. Is this really so hard?

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MartinH

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Zorro
One of the first things that struck me about what Landmark is teaching people is stuff that most of us already know as well as stuff that they have borrowed from someone else and repackaged it. I used to discuss this very topic with one of my Lekkie friends when I was in there.

Everytime a Landmark instructor would give the class a piece of wisdom it seemed like I had heard it from somewhere else.

I wonder how much information and knowledge Landmark has stollen from other people and then resold in their seminars and workshops?

I wonder why so many very well trained and intelligent people fall for this nonsense. What you dont't know that you don't know ... and all these deep insights :twisted: Transformation in three days ... well, Landmark knows everything and solves everything the world's hunger, war and so on ...

I wonder the same thing! This is where the covert tricks come in. These lgats have the technology to fool so many people and to rewire and bypass certain parts of the brain. This is the dangerous aspect of them.

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MartinH
what is so sad, that since I was in Landmark, I am suspicious about everything and don't believe in anything. I am not even sure about the church ...

Same here: totally suspicious. But, for me, it's not all bad. I was waaaaay too trusting and UNsuspicious pre-lgat. I was thinking today, while it's good to have an open mind, one also needs to be able to recognize trickery. Actually, I thought I was someone who could NEVER be conned by a cult. A number of friends tried recruiting me into various cults over the years and I could always spot a cult. I'm even wiser now. I am now comfortable erring on the side of distrust and suspicion; the way I used to be cost me six years and thousands of dollars inside a slickly packaged and presented LIE, and destroyed a perfectly good relationship with a close sibling.

skeptic

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Hope
I don't trust anything either, don't want to be involved with religious groups, stay clear of alternative health people and anyone who wants to talk spirituality.

Ditto for me. I'm afraid of ideology-based anything, charismatic people and everything new age or spiritual.