The Secret (a movie)
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: February 21, 2007 05:02PM
Quote
Hope
THe person suggested I try to see child abuse as a lesson which is helpful if I survived it.
To be clear, I am obviously not defending the new age ninnies in any way.
But Victor Frankl had some good ideas about how to give "meaning" to human tragedies, like the Holocaust, etc.
His basic idea is that a person can existentially modify the "meaning" of human tragedy.
That is similar to parts of REBT and CBT.
so for those who have gone through difficult things, especially as children, they can modify them somewhat in various ways.
One way, is to try and find some "meaning" in it.
So perhaps, for someone who had a terrible childhood, the exposure to brutality may have made the person more sensitive to the plight of others who need help.
I can see some of that sounds like the same crap those folks are pushing, but personally, I found Victor Frankl to have some excellent practical stuff. To find a "meaning for the suffering" does help.
This is not like Landmark where it says you can make anything mean anything.
Or The Secret that says, you brought it on yourself to learn a spiritual lesson.
More like... in life, some random and painful shit happens to good people. Some get it sooner, some get it later, but pretty much everyone gets nailed.
So perhaps experience suffering and pain, can make one more empathic to the suffering and pain of others...or appreciate the simple things in life...or effect social change..etc.
But I think a person has to think that stuff through on their own.
It seems most of the crap for sale, has a grain of truth in it, and a few helpful tips, but they get obscured by the moneymaking, lies, and salesmanship.
The Secret (a movie)
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: February 21, 2007 05:25PM
Quote
Kastlefeer
As for my brother, I do not like the fact that he goes to the RS site but upon reflection perhaps he's the least likely fellow to suffer much harm there. For my mother I think things are much worse.
The Religious (anti)Science Treatments being done on him are hopefully not going to be directly physically harmful, as long as they are doing it the old fashioned way, which is just reading words, in a form of declarative prayer.
[rsintl.org]
Of course, hopefully he is getting proper medical care from doctors? You could speak with the RS practicioner, and make sure he is telling your mom to seek proper medical treatment from a doctor as well, and that if he isn't and something happens, you might hold him responsible..
Of course, many RS churches have been taken over by lots of whack-jobs, who are against "doctors" and all the rest of it.
there are fiduciary laws that force parents to seek medical care for their dependents in certain areas.
But its a drag that the New Thought maniacs have gotten a hold of your family. Once people get locked into the New Thought stuff, its very very difficult to come out of it.
Many get locked in for life.
The Secret (a movie)
Posted by:
Hope
()
Date: February 22, 2007 03:26AM
Quote
The AnticultQuote
Hope
THe person suggested I try to see child abuse as a lesson which is helpful if I survived it.
To be clear, I am obviously not defending the new age ninnies in any way.
But Victor Frankl had some good ideas about how to give "meaning" to human tragedies, like the Holocaust, etc.
His basic idea is that a person can existentially modify the "meaning" of human tragedy.
That is similar to parts of REBT and CBT.
so for those who have gone through difficult things, especially as children, they can modify them somewhat in various ways.
One way, is to try and find some "meaning" in it.
So perhaps, for someone who had a terrible childhood, the exposure to brutality may have made the person more sensitive to the plight of others who need help.
I can see some of that sounds like the same crap those folks are pushing, but personally, I found Victor Frankl to have some excellent practical stuff. To find a "meaning for the suffering" does help.
This is not like Landmark where it says you can make anything mean anything.
Or The Secret that says, you brought it on yourself to learn a spiritual lesson.
More like... in life, some random and painful shit happens to good people. Some get it sooner, some get it later, but pretty much everyone gets nailed.
So perhaps experience suffering and pain, can make one more empathic to the suffering and pain of others...or appreciate the simple things in life...or effect social change..etc.
But I think a person has to think that stuff through on their own.
It seems most of the crap for sale, has a grain of truth in it, and a few helpful tips, but they get obscured by the moneymaking, lies, and salesmanship.
I agree with the idea about dealing with the aftermath of child abuse, much later in life. I was asking these people about the Laws of Attraction and how they apply to the child currently in an abusive situation, an infant being neglected. They couldn't answer, but came up with all kinds of convoluted talk about karma, learning lessons, making up stories. When I asked if, since the Laws of Attraction are laws, would they apply to everyone, and the response to that was that I was the one doing the magical thinking and isn't it just like a human being to want a law to apply to everything.
During a conversation about 9-11, one person mentioned that since we choose to be Americans, we attracted 9-11. I pictured a mass exodus to northern Canada, in the middle of the night.
The Secret (a movie)
Posted by:
question lady
()
Date: February 22, 2007 03:46AM
Here's a possibility for the "karmic" theory of child abuse. Let's say that in this life someone follows "The Secret" and believes that abused children attracted that to themselves and so the new-ager does nothing to help prevent this from happening to children. (so as not to interfere with karma.)
In their next life, they might be placed in a situation where they are abused - in order to learn the lesson that innocent children need to be protected and they have a responsibility to other human beings to take concrete action to stop this from happening.
In their next life, they might be placed in a situation where they are abused - in order to learn the lesson that innocent children need to be protected and they have a responsibility to other human beings to take concrete action to stop this from happening.
The Secret (a movie)
Posted by:
Jack Oskar Larm
()
Date: February 22, 2007 06:04AM
Anticult wrote:
It's not only the New Thought movement that mistakes fantasy for fact. I'd go as far as to say that most religious thought and action is shaped by not being able to accept and resolve the metaphor. It's too easy and blatantly ignorant to interpret mythological text as literal. Funnily enough, most of us can accept that there is no Santa Claus, no Big Bad Wolf and no One Ring To Rule Them All ... but then, I suppose there are no priests or coaches perpetuating these fallacy - this kind of mythology is in the 'fiction' section, whereas holy scripture and New Thought text is in the 'non-fiction' section.
Technology to fly. Technology to outlive our ancestors. The road to Transhumanism does not come about sitting on our arses thinking wishfully. For every drop of intuitive brilliance there is ALWAYS an ocean of hardwork required to achieve these fantastical things. And for every success there are ALWAYS many more failures.
Godlike powers? Impossible because of what represents as a metaphor. When we become the gods of our present day thinking, our dreams and wishful thinking will continue to strive ever upward. Infinity - now there's a metaphor worth considering!
Quote
... some of the New Thought type of ideas might simply be [b:92df00ccf2]the mistake of taking a mythological image, and taking it literally[/b:92df00ccf2].
For instance, the idea that one day Man will have Godlike Powers, is sorta coming true in metaphorical ways.
Take a single man in a loaded Harrier Jet, to a primitive man he would be a literal God, as he could destroy a city single handed.
Or gene-therapy might extend our life-spans, and various technologies can "mimic" certain types of "powers", and in the future, who knows what will be possible. That can be contained in what is called Transhumanism.
It's not only the New Thought movement that mistakes fantasy for fact. I'd go as far as to say that most religious thought and action is shaped by not being able to accept and resolve the metaphor. It's too easy and blatantly ignorant to interpret mythological text as literal. Funnily enough, most of us can accept that there is no Santa Claus, no Big Bad Wolf and no One Ring To Rule Them All ... but then, I suppose there are no priests or coaches perpetuating these fallacy - this kind of mythology is in the 'fiction' section, whereas holy scripture and New Thought text is in the 'non-fiction' section.
Technology to fly. Technology to outlive our ancestors. The road to Transhumanism does not come about sitting on our arses thinking wishfully. For every drop of intuitive brilliance there is ALWAYS an ocean of hardwork required to achieve these fantastical things. And for every success there are ALWAYS many more failures.
Godlike powers? Impossible because of what represents as a metaphor. When we become the gods of our present day thinking, our dreams and wishful thinking will continue to strive ever upward. Infinity - now there's a metaphor worth considering!
The Secret (a movie)
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: February 22, 2007 06:32AM
It seems to me after monitoring this Secret idiocy, that almost all the people who "buy into it totally" are either...
-desperate
-self-centered and superficial
-not too bright
-have no idea of what a Law of Nature is, and perhaps cannot understand it. (In his early years, Einstein thought that the educated layman could understand Relativity...but by his later years, he said that its not possible for the public to understand it. translation: human's are too stupid).
They just hear..HAVE ANYTHING BY MAGIC, and they buy that idea, and don't think it through. They are just thinking...I want a new car, jacket, husband, or whatever.
Reading tons of Secret followers responses has been very depressing, easily over 90% of people just seem to follow without thinking, perhaps that is human nature.
But the people selling The Secret, know what they are doing, in terms of what they are selling.
Abraham-Hicks appear to have some type of weird agenda that goes beyond moneymaking though.
I can think of two somewhat amusing things out of the Secret.
-the supernatural things they are trying to do are literally impossible and against the Laws of Nature, so its just all a big waste of time.
-I generally don't approve of Hellfire Christians, but it is very funny to watch them tear Oprah and The Secret a new hellhole. That does provide some levity in all this. Don't mess with Texas or Jesus!
-desperate
-self-centered and superficial
-not too bright
-have no idea of what a Law of Nature is, and perhaps cannot understand it. (In his early years, Einstein thought that the educated layman could understand Relativity...but by his later years, he said that its not possible for the public to understand it. translation: human's are too stupid).
They just hear..HAVE ANYTHING BY MAGIC, and they buy that idea, and don't think it through. They are just thinking...I want a new car, jacket, husband, or whatever.
Reading tons of Secret followers responses has been very depressing, easily over 90% of people just seem to follow without thinking, perhaps that is human nature.
But the people selling The Secret, know what they are doing, in terms of what they are selling.
Abraham-Hicks appear to have some type of weird agenda that goes beyond moneymaking though.
I can think of two somewhat amusing things out of the Secret.
-the supernatural things they are trying to do are literally impossible and against the Laws of Nature, so its just all a big waste of time.
-I generally don't approve of Hellfire Christians, but it is very funny to watch them tear Oprah and The Secret a new hellhole. That does provide some levity in all this. Don't mess with Texas or Jesus!
Quote
Hope
I agree with the idea about dealing with the aftermath of child abuse, much later in life. I was asking these people about the Laws of Attraction and how they apply to the child currently in an abusive situation, an infant being neglected. They couldn't answer, but came up with all kinds of convoluted talk about karma, learning lessons, making up stories. When I asked if, since the Laws of Attraction are laws, would they apply to everyone, and the response to that was that I was the one doing the magical thinking and isn't it just like a human being to want a law to apply to everything.
During a conversation about 9-11, one person mentioned that since we choose to be Americans, we attracted 9-11. I pictured a mass exodus to northern Canada, in the middle of the night.
The Secret (a movie)
Posted by:
Kastlefeer
()
Date: February 22, 2007 04:27PM
Watching a documentary on Japan this evening a passage is given on how the portuguese king plans to take the lands' riches for his own. He decides that he will send churchmen first to be followed by his armies later. The third shogunate desparate to preserve the newly established social order hard won by his father cracks down against a christian aided revolt with draconian measures to the point where all of Japan is isolated for the next 200 years.
Such things are not possible any longer, there is no possible way to keep interlopers at bay. But some efforts continue heh, Putin's speach in Munich recently if I may draw a parallel.
I would give a speach about religion's place in this world but likely would be shouted down by about 5 1/2 billion idiots.
I'd lump new age philosophy in with religion along with ancient mysticism, probably get the same response.
There is no law of attraction, why would anyone react with optimism about a production called 'the secret' pedalling 'laws', even a dumb fuck lay person like myself without even a high school diploma understands that no law can exist in a vacuum. Scientific method requires PEERS to fucking review your data, repeat the experiments, confirm the findings. The secret ... pff indeed the secret that oprah winfrey will give to you while you fold laundrey on your couch half naked in the dark recesses of rural oblivion.
I really despise that I've come this far in life, distracted enough that I've not ever understood anything until this point. I'm so far behind now but at least I've woken up to a few things.
Sadly I feel as if a child raising up my parents and siblings, warding them from inumerable snares and lies and yes, they'll still be going to Religious Science next week and the week after ...
I should have woken up sooner ...
Such things are not possible any longer, there is no possible way to keep interlopers at bay. But some efforts continue heh, Putin's speach in Munich recently if I may draw a parallel.
I would give a speach about religion's place in this world but likely would be shouted down by about 5 1/2 billion idiots.
I'd lump new age philosophy in with religion along with ancient mysticism, probably get the same response.
There is no law of attraction, why would anyone react with optimism about a production called 'the secret' pedalling 'laws', even a dumb fuck lay person like myself without even a high school diploma understands that no law can exist in a vacuum. Scientific method requires PEERS to fucking review your data, repeat the experiments, confirm the findings. The secret ... pff indeed the secret that oprah winfrey will give to you while you fold laundrey on your couch half naked in the dark recesses of rural oblivion.
I really despise that I've come this far in life, distracted enough that I've not ever understood anything until this point. I'm so far behind now but at least I've woken up to a few things.
Sadly I feel as if a child raising up my parents and siblings, warding them from inumerable snares and lies and yes, they'll still be going to Religious Science next week and the week after ...
I should have woken up sooner ...
The Secret (a movie)
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: February 22, 2007 05:25PM
[www.huffingtonpost.com]
Quote
The Secret? It's Out, It's Old, and It's Obvious
Joan Z. Shore 02.21.2007
What has seized America? Not a new guru, not a new sect, but a little group of people who claim to have discovered, and are now promulgating, the Secret of the Ages.
This is no small claim. And yet their formula is embarrassingly simplistic: "Like Attracts Like."
This is not brain surgery or quantum physics.
It is the Power of Positive Thinking all over again. It is Werner Erhard, Tony Robbins and Deepak Chopra all rolled into one. Only, it has been given a short, catchy name and it has been launched at a time in our world where everyone is looking for a rapid answer and a quick fix.
We do not have time to read philosophy, to engage in esoteric discussions, or to formulate theories. Even psychotherapy is too long and too costly an undertaking. We want the ready-made, the microwaved, the heat-and-serve, the wash-and-wear; we do not want to be bothered with serious study and careful analysis. We want answers at a discount, nicely packaged and ready to go.
And that's what The Secret is all about. Oprah Winfrey and her audiences ate it up. The mail in response was off the charts. The book jumped to Number One on the New York Times bestseller list, and the DVD is selling like heavenly hotcakes.
After the Old Testament and the New Testament, The Secret is the Ultimate Testament. It is The Gospel According to Rhonda Byrne (the author, an ingenuous Australian woman) and her peppy band of disciples. It promises not salvation but, better yet, wealth and success and happiness and love. Maybe health, too, if that's your problem. Just stop thinking you're a jerk and a failure, and begin to see yourself as infinitely powerful and talented and gorgeous and wise. Then everything wonderful and enriching and gorgeous and wise will come to you.
Clearly, it is time for the Dalai Lama and Rabbi Berg and his Kabbalists to hang up their hats. We are on the threshold of a New-New Age, where we can manifest (The Secret's favorite word) whatever we desire by focusing our minds on it. Of course, it should not be selfish or nasty or harmful to others. (I imagine this to be true; Ms. Byrne does not discuss the ethical implications of misuse of The Secret, or the possible repercussions of evil intent.)
Anyway -- throw away your credit cards, tear up your diplomas, quit your boring job, and focus on the money, the work, the home, the spouse you really want. It will come to you. No hassle. No effort.
No kidding?
The Secret (a movie)
Posted by:
upsidedownnewspaper
()
Date: February 22, 2007 08:22PM
The one thing this secret bizo has going for it is that it places power in your hands. I like that as opposed to people handing me a volume called Dianetics and telling me, "This will improve your life," or a self-appointed trainer in front of a roomful of people expounding platitudes of self-important dogma, as sincere as he is misguided that he has the secret.
The secret tears that grip these charlatans have on you and gives you the power back.
That job done, however, and the Secret should roll over and die. I manifest it.
The secret tears that grip these charlatans have on you and gives you the power back.
That job done, however, and the Secret should roll over and die. I manifest it.
The Secret (a movie)
Posted by:
ajinajan
()
Date: February 22, 2007 08:38PM
Quote
The Anticult
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joan-z-shore/the-secret-its-out-it_b_41821.htmlQuote
The Secret? It's Out, It's Old, and It's Obvious
Joan Z. Shore 02.21.2007
What has seized America? Not a new guru, not a new sect, but a little group of people who claim to have discovered, and are now promulgating, the Secret of the Ages.
This is no small claim. And yet their formula is embarrassingly simplistic: "Like Attracts Like."
This is not brain surgery or quantum physics.
It is the Power of Positive Thinking all over again. It is Werner Erhard, Tony Robbins and Deepak Chopra all rolled into one. Only, it has been given a short, catchy name and it has been launched at a time in our world where everyone is looking for a rapid answer and a quick fix.
We do not have time to read philosophy, to engage in esoteric discussions, or to formulate theories. Even psychotherapy is too long and too costly an undertaking. We want the ready-made, the microwaved, the heat-and-serve, the wash-and-wear; we do not want to be bothered with serious study and careful analysis. We want answers at a discount, nicely packaged and ready to go.
And that's what The Secret is all about. Oprah Winfrey and her audiences ate it up. The mail in response was off the charts. The book jumped to Number One on the New York Times bestseller list, and the DVD is selling like heavenly hotcakes.
After the Old Testament and the New Testament, The Secret is the Ultimate Testament. It is The Gospel According to Rhonda Byrne (the author, an ingenuous Australian woman) and her peppy band of disciples. It promises not salvation but, better yet, wealth and success and happiness and love. Maybe health, too, if that's your problem. Just stop thinking you're a jerk and a failure, and begin to see yourself as infinitely powerful and talented and gorgeous and wise. Then everything wonderful and enriching and gorgeous and wise will come to you.
Clearly, it is time for the Dalai Lama and Rabbi Berg and his Kabbalists to hang up their hats. We are on the threshold of a New-New Age, where we can manifest (The Secret's favorite word) whatever we desire by focusing our minds on it. Of course, it should not be selfish or nasty or harmful to others. (I imagine this to be true; Ms. Byrne does not discuss the ethical implications of misuse of The Secret, or the possible repercussions of evil intent.)
Anyway -- throw away your credit cards, tear up your diplomas, quit your boring job, and focus on the money, the work, the home, the spouse you really want. It will come to you. No hassle. No effort.
No kidding?
Excellent, well-written article - my thoughts exactly.
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