My husband is currently in Atlanta at one of his ILP--Introduction Leader Program--required meetings. We live far away in another state so this is costing a big chunk of money, what with air fare, rental car, hotel, meals etc. And at Christmas time!
I am very unhappy with the time and money being lavished on Landmark, and when I asked my husband how much this course cost (I knew the Advanced Course was $600 and The Forum over $400, he took both) and he said the ILP was only "$50 or $100" because he didn't live in a city where there was a LM center. Therefore, LM didn't charge much for the course, since people had to travel. Is this true?
This is his second trip to Atlanta in 2 months. He also travels to Dallas, which is in another state from where we live.
Does anyone know the cost of the ILP? He has apparently put it on a credit card I have no access to.
He claims he has no intention of becoming a Forum Introduction leader, but that he's learning things to help him in his business. But how often in business does one need to scream meaningless poems at the top of their lungs over and over in front of a crowd? That's one of the things he did last time in Atlanta. He lost his voice for 3 days as a result.

Has anyone else done this ILP? Is this really going to go on for 3 or 4 more months, with "practice" sessions 2 or 3 nights a week plus 6:30 PM to past midnight Friday sessions?

I can assure you he hadn't lied to you about the cost, the tuition cost is only applied to participants who haven't had to travel and the cost in nz was $125.00.

As for the hours and committment it is huge. When I did ILP it was friday night classrooms plus one assisting agreement per week and we we all had buddies and teams that also met at least once per week. often it was more. Particularly where we had to learn alot of information quickly and memorise it.

Its a mentally and emotionally demanding programme. and if your husband lives out of the area it will cost him alot to go to everything

Oops forgot you can't edit now.... just to add it is a six month programme and the friday night classrooms often go past midnight. I think we only finished once over the six months before midnight

Quote

I can assure you he hadn't lied to you about the cost, the tuition cost is only applied to participants who haven't had to travel and the cost in nz was $125.00.

As for the hours and committment it is huge. When I did ILP it was friday night classrooms plus one assisting agreement per week and we we all had buddies and teams that also met at least once per week. often it was more. Particularly where we had to learn alot of information quickly and memorise it.

Its a mentally and emotionally demanding programme. and if your husband lives out of the area it will cost him alot to go to everything

And this is probably the bulk of the reasoning of the investigations by the Federal Department of Labor in the United States and in France.
[b:ab673f7a90]
1) Why should you have to pay anything at all for a "course" that teaches you how to be salesmen for a for-profit company?
2) Shouldn't the for-profit company reimburse the new volunteer-employees for ALL travel, food, lodging, etc. expenses?
3) Shouldn't the for-profit company actually pay their new volunteer-employees, instead of requiring money from them - for all of the hours spent "training" and staying up past midnight for months on end?[/b:ab673f7a90]

I have taken part in training through various work experiences, and in virtually every instance all expenses were paid for by the various companies - the idea that these individuals would have to pay for ANY part of the course themselves, and are not reimbursed for travel, food, lodging and other expenses related to learning how to be salesmen for a for-profit company - seems completely ludicrous.

I was in the ILP. At one occasion I complained because I had travelled more than 800 km by car with lots of traffic jams, and arrived half an hour late in the evening.

In addition to the cost and the hassles of the travel after work, I was "asked" in the first second after arrival why I had not paid the money for the course yet and why I have not made sure to be on time. Then I was slightly upset. I said: I am here for a training program, a company would make sure that a training location is in a reasonable distance and I would reimbursed for travelling and hotel.

Arrogant response as usual of them: you are on it, get off it ... no further comments

That's how they treat people, they do not have to explain anything.

Quote
ClausDIa
I was in the ILP. At one occasion I complained because I had travelled more than 800 km by car with lots of traffic jams, and arrived half an hour late in the evening.

In addition to the cost and the hassles of the travel after work, I was "asked" in the first second after arrival why I had not paid the money for the course yet and why I have not made sure to be on time. Then I was slightly upset. I said: I am here for a training program, a company would make sure that a training location is in a reasonable distance and I would reimbursed for travelling and hotel.

Arrogant response as usual of them: you are on it, get off it ... no further comments

That's how they treat people, they do not have to explain anything.

So intriguing that individuals who are participating in what is effectively a sales-training program for this for-profit company - are not treated like salesmen. In fact, they are not even treated like students. They are treated like children. This is not just highly inappropriate - it is bordering on criminal.

yes, absolutely, people are treated like children ... or soldiers, no common sense ... reasonable aguments are accepted, any discussions shut down be leaders

Quote
ClausDIa
yes, absolutely, people are treated like children ... or soldiers, no common sense ... reasonable aguments are accepted, any discussions shut down be leaders

One wonders why all of these unpaid volunteers put up with this - and why after all this time a class action lawsuit to recover unpaid wages has not yet been filed by all of these volunteers either in civil court and/or with the Federal Department of Labor...

because volunteers are convinced that this rigorous training helps them to work on their personality, to improve their effectiveness and so on...
as long as you use the course for self-impovement it might be fine, but the best or the ones with enough free time end up as Landmark sales drones (unpaid by the way), so called introduction leaders that officially sell the course.

Landmark disguises the training of introduction leaders (and later seminar leaders) in a personal development course; after a while, people who only want to use the course for their own personal development and to keep themselves out of the sales stuff, are thown out. They like to throw out and disgrace people, it is their way to demonstrate power.

This was at least my experience.

Quote
ClausDIa
because volunteers are convinced that this rigorous training helps them to work on their personality, to improve their effectiveness and so on...
as long as you use the course for self-impovement it might be fine, but the best or the ones with enough free time end up as Landmark sales drones (unpaid by the way), so called introduction leaders that officially sell the course.

Landmark disguises the training of introduction leaders (and later seminar leaders) in a personal development course; after a while, people who only want to use the course for their own personal development and to keep themselves out of the sales stuff, are thown out. They like to throw out and disgrace people, it is their way to demonstrate power.

This was at least my experience.

What I mean is surely if you have had this experience, and there are over 9,000 volunteer unpaid laborers for this for-profit organization - then statistically there are plenty of other disaffected individuals like yourself out there.

What I'm wondering is - Why haven't more of them either made their own [b:aca31403cd]official individual complaints to the United States Federal Department of Labor[/b:aca31403cd] in order to reclaim backwages for all of their volunteer unpaid hours (because they are legally entitled to them) and/or [b:aca31403cd]filed a class action lawsuit[/b:aca31403cd] together?

Both are very viable and probably would end up being highly successful options. In the case of individually filing a complaint with the United States Federal Department of Labor - the government agency keeps the complainant's identity confidential at all times. In the case of the class action lawsuit - it would most likely be free up-front for the plaintiffs - their attorneys would waive all initial fees and take a cut of the final ruling.