My wife is a consultant and her current employer paid for her to attend a Landmark Education Forum in Sacramento, Ca. She signed me up, as well as our 20 year old son who we are trying to move in some positive directions. Well, it took us just about three hours to figure the scam that is Landmark Education. I kept racking my brain trying to remember where I "experienced" this before, and on day two, EST exploded into my mind. The Forum was an interesting and well scripted combination of philosophies and self-awareness insights, but the bottom line, it is very dangerous to those prone to "needing" something in their lives, and emotionally unstable. The Corporate sales pitch that permeated the entire weekend was slick, pervasive abd held out, as so many of these "operations" do, the carrot of "breaking through to extraordinary possibilities." Our Forum Leader and Coach, Jerry was certainly a refined huckster, a polished bully, an animated and professional motivation speaker, with just enough comedy and "Jim Carreyism" to carry the endless hours of repeated "Forum mantras." I was amazed that people would walk up to the microphone and in front of total strangers share some deep, painful and emotional moments, allow Jerry ti berate them into a stage of emotional instability, demand they be "coachable", telling them what they believe are but made up stories, then, end up calling their lives (as well as everyone in the audience) "worthless." As a fairly learned student of life, I could not deal with Landmark's simplistic descriptions of the cause and effect of the human condition. To base an entire "way of being" on three happenings extracted in time in one's life was stinky science. It was interesting to observe that 80% of those Jerry called to the front of the group were women, and my the end on Sunday night, several had become his favorites, and probably signed up for the Advance Training, had drawn in friends and family to the Tuesday night finale, and were ready to take on the seminars. I observed what I thought were at least three "plants" in the audience of 270, as well as the four women who openly stated they had taken the Forum befoe; I kept wondering, why are they here? Surely they must have moved on? I tried to get called on several times with my arm up, even making direct eye contact with Jerry as he worked the room, picking and choosing; however, I was never selected. I am thinking my "profile" filled out and submitted before the sessions, and my answers to the two innocent inquiring phone calls I received had something to do with it. "I have read your profiles!" I did after all state that I was a Philosophy and Comparative Religions major for five years in college in the early '70's and still actively explored such readings and teachings. Or maybe it was the fact I included that I was a retired Division Chief from the fire service with 32 years of intense experiences, as well as adding that I was a combat medical corpsman in Vietnam in 1968 which had alter my perspective of life forever, and my stated Forum goal was "stable emotional intimacy." I noted a number of others who also were never selected, although their hands were in the air a number of times. I do not think Jerry wanted to take on the "tough nuts!" We stayed to the end of Sunday night, mainly for our son's benefit. As we left the convention center I asked him what he thought. Jerry was an abusive fake, the whole weekend was a joke, but he had made a couple of cool friends and got their phone numbers. Despite the hammering before each break, we called no one to "share our new authenticity" or invite them to come share the Curriculum; we did not return for the Tueday night "groupfest", but contrary to Landmark's position, we did GET IT! I encourage all who get pulled or pushed towards this experience to take heed, these guys are in it ONLY for the MONEY! Oh, there are pearls here and there in the presentation, but wading through the pig sty to try and find them is not worth it. Anyone would be better off taking the tuition and going to their favorite bookstore and perusing the Philosophy, Humanities and Self-Help shelves; or having a good heart to heart talk with your best friend a a bottle of good Merlot.
Peace

It might be a good idea for you to attempt to talk to some of your fellow co-workers and explain to them your opinions about the organization [b:08231b4a53]before[/b:08231b4a53] they go to the controverisal "The Forum" course. You could mention to them that the company has been investigated in the United States and France by their Federal Department of Labor for unpaid labor practices.

There is a great video here to watch:
[www.culteducation.com]

Also the main archive
[www.culteducation.com]

The litigation archive
[www.culteducation.com]
and its intro
[www.culteducation.com]

Of course they wouldn't call on someone who might fight back, know more than they do, or make the "trainer" look bad. They'd rather pick on some unaware sad-sack they can ream out in front of the audience and use as an example to "make their point."

Thanks for writing.


I'm curious; was your wife required to do this thing? Is her boss a Landmark "fan" or follower? Did you site together? Had you "done" the est "training?"

I think there are some "viral" or "memetic"-type elements within the program that are toxic or crazy-making or potentially very dangerous, even to normal or stable people, but I'd like to know what you think.



Ellen

My employer tried to push it on me, and I was the first of the management team to outright say NO. Needless to say, I don't work at that company anymore--they made it so uncomfortable that I left.

Your wife's firm is creating a Landmark-based office, and either you're in or you're out. If your wife stays a "believer", your marriage is in serious trouble--like cults, they want their people to either convert or dissociate with friends and family. If she wises up and realizes it is a "crock", she can kiss her job goodbye.

Sorry it got this far and that she got your son involved, too. It is poison.

~Maggie

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My employer tried to push it on me, and I was the first of the management team to outright say NO. Needless to say, I don't work at that company anymore--they made it so uncomfortable that I left.

Your wife's firm is creating a Landmark-based office, and either you're in or you're out. If your wife stays a "believer", your marriage is in serious trouble--like cults, they want their people to either convert or dissociate with friends and family. If she wises up and realizes it is a "crock", she can kiss her job goodbye.

Sorry it got this far and that she got your son involved, too. It is poison.

~Maggie

This seems to be a new pattern - of employers pushing Landmark Education on their employees - and then when some of those employees say NO!, they are no longer welcome at that company. Isn't this some kind of workplace discrimination or unfair labor practices?

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elena
I think there are some "viral" or "memetic"-type elements within the program that are toxic or crazy-making or potentially very dangerous, even to normal or stable people, but I'd like to know what you think.

Elena, could you please expand on this.

I did the forum 4 months ago, trying to win the heart of a devotee. I really didn't get much out of it, and I ascribe this to our breaking up. I have realised that she is the most manipulative person I have ever met, I'm sure she honed her techniques from Landmark. I am still having trouble getting her out of my head. A friend mentioned the phrase "flirty fishing", and I can see it ringing so true. Does this relate to your statement?

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Christopher John
As a fairly learned student of life, I could not deal with Landmark's simplistic descriptions of the cause and effect of the human condition. To base an entire "way of being" on three happenings extracted in time in one's life was stinky science.

Remember one thing... they are a [i:9f03dd83ca]business. [/i:9f03dd83ca]

As a [i:9f03dd83ca]business[/i:9f03dd83ca] they have a strong proprietary interest in "what sells".

They take their market research into "what sells" and repackage this (or "reframe" it) as "what works"....

Is that cynical marketing, or simply good profit maximizing ?

My wife was encouraged to go by the woman that currently oversees the program my wife has been contracted to run as an interim director. My wife did not by into any of Landmark's proposals for self-development; in fact, she was ready to leave on Sat afternoon. I believe running a business based on Landmark's curriculum would quickly stifle creativity and productivity. However, there are a lot of people in the world trying desperately to make sense of a lot of things, and the promise of achieving "enlightenment", "nirvana" or an "extraordinary human condition" or whatever, has always been extremely tempting. Ask Adam and Eve, or a suicide bomber!

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nutrino

Remember one thing... they are a [i:86b0a65166]business. [/i:86b0a65166]

As a [i:86b0a65166]business[/i:86b0a65166] they have a strong proprietary interest in "what sells".

They take their market research into "what sells" and repackage this (or "reframe" it) as "what works"....

Is that cynical marketing, or simply good profit maximizing ?

Both, I would venture. It's an opportunistic exploitation of the lower-common-denominator of "quickie" mind cures without the stigma or the real labor of psychotherapy. It's the dumbing-down and pandering to the population niche who like Jerry Springer and Dr. Phil. It's a uniquely American combo-pyramid scheme/self-improvement cult that Werner Erhard deserves some credit for thinking up, though it was really Alexander Everett who did the job. As per usual, Werner Erhard just picked up someone else's ideas.

There's no shortage of products that are designed for the lowest rungs of the socio-economic-academic ladder: fast food, "career" colleges, "pay-day-loan" shops, certain annuities and other "investments" marketed to the poor, "home-improvement" loans, automatic payment plans, book "clubs," extended warranties, low-down-EZ-payment-plans, variable-rate-mortgages, and my personal favorite: "pre-need" mortuary plans and outrageously expensive funerals (the funeral business is so exploitive of people in distress they are regulated in most states) -- all products designed to exploit the incautious, the uneducated, the unaware, and the desperate and keep them paying and paying and paying. Landmark and all the similar "programs" are the intellectual/psychologic/spritual/acdemic equivalent. They should be exposed as such.


Ellen

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mazellan

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elena
I think there are some "viral" or "memetic"-type elements within the program that are toxic or crazy-making or potentially very dangerous, even to normal or stable people, but I'd like to know what you think.

Elena, could you please expand on this.

I did the forum 4 months ago, trying to win the heart of a devotee. I really didn't get much out of it, and I ascribe this to our breaking up. I have realised that she is the most manipulative person I have ever met, I'm sure she honed her techniques from Landmark. I am still having trouble getting her out of my head. A friend mentioned the phrase "flirty fishing", and I can see it ringing so true. Does this relate to your statement?

Since his days getting women to sell over-priced books door-to-door, Werner Erhard used women to get men to reach for their wallets. Many cults use women for this purpose and for the same reason a dog-catcher might use a female in heat. Did you notice lots of well-dressed, happy-face, and flirtatious women in the group? They are and have been groomed (~coached~) to go out and sell, sell, sell the Forum using whatever means they have available. They have been led to believe that their future depends on learning to be influential & persuasive and Landmark is their vehicle for this purpose. Too many of them become pushy, aggressive, obnoxious sales-machines. It's just so much old Napoleon Hill stuff and his "sex sells" mantra. Some people just take to the Landmark formulae like you-know-what to you-know-what. The self-centered focus makes a lot of sense to narcissists. That's why it's been called "catnip for the conceited."


Ellen