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If people have been "pushed" into that by Landmark, and you have some evidence of it, Landmark can get into BIG BIG trouble for that.
Walmart got into serious trouble for some managers forcing people to "punch out" but keep working, so no OT would be paid.

Landmark obviously does that by making their employees work OT without being paid OT.
If this happened to you, you can sue their ass, and get that money back, plus penalties. That could be a class-action lawsuit slam-dunk.
That's probably part of what the Dept of Labor is investigating at Landmark

The one thing I know is that landmark have a way around things for example paying a salary rather then wages.. wages pay by the hour so you get paid for OT salary you get a set amount even if you have to do extra hours.

The other important thing to keep in mind when it comes to lawsuits, and suing and all that other stuff is that we are spread out around the world and what is legal in one country is not in another, what legal recourse can be taken in one country can't be done in another.

Its all well and good to talk about a class action lawsuit except that we all have to be in the same country and most of us are not, plus many ex-staff and even current staff of landmark would not ever go down that track

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The one thing I know is that landmark have a way around things for example paying a salary rather then wages.. wages pay by the hour so you get paid for OT salary you get a set amount even if you have to do extra hours.

The other important thing to keep in mind when it comes to lawsuits, and suing and all that other stuff is that we are spread out around the world and what is legal in one country is not in another, what legal recourse can be taken in one country can't be done in another.

Its all well and good to talk about a class action lawsuit except that we all have to be in the same country and most of us are not, plus many ex-staff and even current staff of landmark would not ever go down that track

Perhaps, however there was enough information in 2002 against Landmark in the case of that woman in Washington State, that quickly settled and never even made it to court. It is probable that with the Rick Ross 2005 court victory, the French video coming out and Landmark leaving France in 2004, the 1998 and 2006 investigations into Landmark Education by the United States Federal Department of Labor - that more instances will come up where Landmark must defend themselves and be the one cowering in the corner, instead of individual defendants with no financial resources, and suppression of the media and the press.

Enough is enough.

It is time for Landmark Education to see what it feels like, what it felt like for Rick Ross, Margaret Singer, Cynthia Kisser, and Martin Lell, Elle Magazine, Steven Pressman and all the others.

Yes, if enough people in the United States had grievances, they could file a class action lawsuit - it would not take that many - and there are plenty of hurt people out there.

And if enough people reported/complained about Landmark Education to their respective Federal Labor Office, State Attorney General, Government Representative, Congressman and Senators, and Better Business Bureau - these individuals and government representatives would begin to get interested - and there would almost certainly be more multiple investigations.

To quote Werner Erhard's silly jargon-phrase from his founding of The Hunger Project - "An End Whose Time Has Come."

Of course you are 100% correct that different areas have different laws. But if there are types of "labor abuses" going on at any company, then that can be referred to the labor authorities.
There must be some rules regarding salaried employees, and how that is related to basic hours. If the contract is based around 40 hrs, and everyone is working 72 hrs a week, every week, then that's abuse.

Of course Landmark has its own lawyers, who try to push the edges of the law as far as they can go, and Landmark wil lie, lie, lie to try to cover-up what has gone on.
But local offices can be held to account for their abuses, and perhaps Uncle Sam can force Landmark to open their files, and show that the abuse of their employees and "volunteers-trainees" is SYSTEMATIC. Since the US Dept of Labor is investigating, this is an ideal time for folks in the US to file a complaint. Also, perhaps its a good time in other countries as well.

As far as a class-action, that was meant more in the context of the US. I THINK in other countries in Europe, the labor laws are much more strict, so perhaps that is one of the reason Landmark left, as they were going to get nailed.

As far as a lawsuit, of course people do need to think about that carefully before they jump into it. But even if people are not interested in that, if they feel its appropriate for them, they could file complaints to the Dept of Labor in their country.

Call up the local labor relations board in your own local area, and have a chat with someone there, and see what the options are.
Employers cannot abuse their employees just because they can get away with it.

I know Landmark says its a "choice" to work 80 hrs a week, for below min wage, buts its NOT. Its like when the Walmart managers gave people a "choice" to punch out but keep working. That is coercion. If you don't "play ball" then you are OUT. So its abuse.

Maybe call a local union as well, and someone there could give some advice.

Also, there are LABOR LAWYERS who do pro bono work for people. Perhaps a labor group will take this on, like the EFF, or at least provide some guidance.

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sonnie_dee
The one thing I know is that landmark have a way around things for example paying a salary rather then wages.. wages pay by the hour so you get paid for OT salary you get a set amount even if you have to do extra hours.

The other important thing to keep in mind when it comes to lawsuits, and suing and all that other stuff is that we are spread out around the world and what is legal in one country is not in another, what legal recourse can be taken in one country can't be done in another.

Its all well and good to talk about a class action lawsuit except that we all have to be in the same country and most of us are not, plus many ex-staff and even current staff of landmark would not ever go down that track

All it would take is for one of these experienced and powerful class-action lawyers in the US, and they could possibly take Landmark down, and put them out of business.
Does anyone think Landmark might have some Enron type problems?
Or some problems about where all the money is going?
Is money getting channelled off-shore somehow?
What about the "employee owned" bullshit Landmark keeps talking about? Has one employee ever seen ONE PENNY of that?
Anyone think Landmark might have about 25 hidden problems of this nature, that could come out in a class-action?

But of course, Landmark would play legal games for as long as possible, and then try to do a pay-out, to stop their documents from going public.

But the Gentle Wind Project cult was ended by the legal process.
Maybe Landmarks day has come as well. Maybe Landmark can be stopped, so it does not live on past Werner Erhards death.
If Landmark becomes enough of a personal liabilty to the Rosenberg Family, will they "cut and run" and go live on a boat somewhere?

Or maybe live somewhere near about 250 numbered anonymous Swiss bank accounts, or some tropical island tax-haven that allows the setting up of myriad shell companies, so money can be moved around with ease, with no records.

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ajinajan

Enough is enough.

It is time for Landmark Education to see what it feels like, what it felt like for Rick Ross, Margaret Singer, Cynthia Kisser, and Martin Lell, Elle Magazine, Steven Pressman and all the others.

Yes, if enough people in the United States had grievances, they could file a class action lawsuit - it would not take that many - and there are plenty of hurt people out there.

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All it would take is for one of these experienced and powerful class-action lawyers in the US, and they could possibly take Landmark down, and put them out of business.
Does anyone think Landmark might have some Enron type problems?
Or some problems about where all the money is going?
Is money getting channelled off-shore somehow?
What about the "employee owned" bullshit Landmark keeps talking about? Has one employee ever seen ONE PENNY of that?
Anyone think Landmark might have about 25 hidden problems of this nature, that could come out in a class-action?

All very, very interesting questions, which may come out at some point in the near future, if individuals take it upon themselves to either band together in the form of class action lawsuits, and/or report Landmark Education to their local Better Business Bureau, Attorney General, and Congressmen.

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What about the "employee owned" bullshit Landmark keeps talking about? Has one employee ever seen ONE PENNY of that?

Unfortunately that part is true, the staff do own Landmark in that they own shares of landmark education. After a staff member has been on staff about a year and has been successful they are given shares in the company.

However as you correctly guess no one has ever seen a cent of that money as Landmark "reinvests it in the company"

I volunteer at Ironman triathlons ...handing out water at aid stations, getting finsihers their medals, etc. Over 4,000 people typically volunteer at one of these races, yet the company that organizes these events -- the World Triathlon Corporation -- is a for profit corporation. However, they could never stage one of these events and keep the entry fees affordable without the volunteers. I guess the same goes for Landmark.

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I volunteer at Ironman triathlons ...handing out water at aid stations, getting finsihers their medals, etc. Over 4,000 people typically volunteer at one of these races, yet the company that organizes these events -- the World Triathlon Corporation -- is a for profit corporation. However, they could never stage one of these events and keep the entry fees affordable without the volunteers. I guess the same goes for Landmark.

Hrm, very interesting.

Do the volunteers at the Ironman triathalons compose over 95% of the total workforce of the company?

What happens to the volunteers if they break their ankle on the premises? Do they have workers comp? Benefits of any kind? Health insurance? Have to sign any forms before they volunteer? Is the company liable if the volunteers abuse someone on the premises or cause damage of any kind?

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I volunteer at Ironman triathlons ...handing out water at aid stations, getting finsihers their medals, etc. Over 4,000 people typically volunteer at one of these races, yet the company that organizes these events -- the World Triathlon Corporation -- is a for profit corporation. However, they could never stage one of these events and keep the entry fees affordable without the volunteers. I guess the same goes for Landmark.

Interesting theory but there is one major difference. they use volunteers to help keep the triathelon affordable. Landmark use volunteers to save money.

If you take the average Landmark forum which has 150 people in it. multiplied by the fee for the weekend $450 then they make $67500. minus expenses - flying a forum leader in (if required) accommodaton and the renting of a room/conference facility if the landmark offices don't have their own (most do) they are making approx $60,000 for one weekend. they do 12 a year that is $720000 in that office alone minus off office expenses of lets say $200k and that is a profit of $500k and thats just on the landmark forum alone.

Advance course is $1000 with 110 participants. The communication programme $1000 with $75 particpants

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If you take the average Landmark forum which has 150 people in it. multiplied by the fee for the weekend $450 then they make $67500. minus expenses - flying a forum leader in (if required) accommodaton and the renting of a room/conference facility if the landmark offices don't have their own (most do) they are making approx $60,000 for one weekend. they do 12 a year that is $720000 in that office alone minus off office expenses of lets say $200k and that is a profit of $500k and thats just on the landmark forum alone.

Advance course is $1000 with 110 participants. The communication programme $1000 with $75 particpants

Very interesting points. Your napkin calculations really bring home some of the financial sticky points surrounding Landmark Education and their controversial volunteer "assisting" program...