from an est grad
Posted by: patrick-darcy ()
Date: October 30, 2006 06:19AM

i brought this over from the
google group. its quite interesting.

especially if u put the french video together with it.

> its_my_dime (hold the .spam) wrote:
>> In a previous post, I said that I thought est had value for many people.
>> With certain posters (they know who they are) on IGNORE, I am going to
>> post an est story as I remember it.
>> It was the first weekend of the training.  The trainer was Ron Bynum, the
>> best of the best.  Somehow, he started in a conversation with an average
>> looking, somewhat frumpy lady who said that she didn't go out much or
>> participate in activities out of respect for her dead husband.  The
>> interchange went something like this:
>> Trainer:  How long has your husband been dead?
>> Lady:     Five years.
>> Trainer:  And your still carrying his stinking body behind you in your
>> little red wagon.
>> Lady:      Complete shock.
>> Trainer:   Did you love him?
>> Lady:      Of course.
>> Trainer:   Did he love you?
>> Lady:      Yes
>> Trainer:   And how would he feel about the way you're behaving...
>> It went on like that for some time.
>> The following weekend, the same lady showed up with a new haircut, makeup
>> and a bright red dress.
>> What started as a request for validation of her withdrawn lifestyle ended
>> up as permission in front of 250 strangers to let go of the past and get
>> on with her life.
>> Could she have gotten the same thing out of therapy?  Maybe but it would
>> have taken longer than a weekend and cost more than $300.
>> Could the confrontation have been damaging to her?  Maybe but how much
>> worse
>> off would she have really been?  Further, I suspect she wouldn't have
>> raised her hand (nobody ever got called on if they chose not to
>> participate) if she weren't uneasy about where she was in life.
>> Did others in the room who chose not to "share" also get value from this
>> interchange?  I'm sure they did.
>> So, notwithstanding many valid criticisms, I believe that est was, in
>> fact,
>> extremely beneficial to many people.   I am sure there are many more
>> stories like this one.

i believe the leader removed her memory of your
husband that was painful and replaced it the
memory of a stinking body which she later
discarded and then become happy.

other opinions ?

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from an est grad
Posted by: ajinajan ()
Date: October 30, 2006 07:23AM


i believe the leader removed her memory of your
husband that was painful and replaced it the
memory of a stinking body which she later
discarded and then become happy.

other opinions ?
Could be something as simple as "Groupthink". The woman saw other people making changes, and so she thought she "had to" as well, in order to fit in with the group mentality. Sort of similar to
Amazing how much people will bend their will when tested by a "superior teacher" and being actively humiliated and sweared at in front of a Large Group, as we saw in the French Landmark video. I know I did, at the time...

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from an est grad
Posted by: Steve989 ()
Date: October 30, 2006 07:37AM

Sounds like he changed her preception of her husband. One of a caring, loving relationship to something she could discard as if it didn't mean a thing.

The terms "Love, committment, marriage" are nothing more than words to the grad of these LGATS, unless it's directed at the group(s) their in involved in. Sounds like my wife when she left, the group was more important to her, than her true family and friends. She see the LGAT as her sole support and the people who loved and supported her all her life mean nothing.

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from an est grad
Posted by: joe6 ()
Date: October 30, 2006 07:39AM

Don't fall for the ploy of "Landmark is better than therapy". The purpose of the assault early in the training is to do something unambiguously terrible to someone, such as destroying their defenses as we see in the video.
Why do this? Because this is a technique for manipulating a room of people. It pops everyone out of their common-sense mind. A common-sense person would think "Holy shit, that Forum leader is a truly horrible person, and oh my god, my dear friend has dragged me into a room full of cult members. How the hell am I going to get out of here? I just gave a shitload of money to an absolute tyrant! Oh shit!"
Most decent people are so unprepared for this that they will do anything to avoid reaching that conclusion, and guess what?

That's what the rest of the Forum is for!

The Forum immediately hands you the mind distorting "technology" you need to escape the thought you should be having, "The Forum leader is an absolutely horrible manipulator and my friend is a drone who dragged me to this nuthouse." So instead people like Jocelyne in the video come out saying "Alain Roth is a great person" and accept any lie that will help avoid the awful, obvious conclusion that you would reach if you let your mind function clearly.
Doing something so horrendous that it's completely off the chart for people to cope with is a tried-and-true brainwashing method. And the Forum leader knows damn well that's what he or she is doing. And people glowingly posting here about how great Landmark is are still in that moment of shock, not letting their mind reach the obvious conclusion of the disaster that their friend draged them in to.

So, don't get duped into comparing it to therapy.

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from an est grad
Posted by: Hope ()
Date: October 30, 2006 08:17AM

She could also have been a plant.

If not a plant, what was the follow up? What was her emotional state and her behavior one week, two weeks, months after LF? Was she afraid to come back looking the same? How did she go from one extreme to the next and not settle in somewhere in the middle where real grieving starts to heal?

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