Re: IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
boonetahoe
()
Date: November 15, 2007 05:28AM
Quote
formerimpactgradQuote
ImpactedJayson, Sweetheart, you are such an obvious fraud.
Why so mean? Can't I disagree with you without being corrupt, a liar, a fraud? Is my disagreement really so threatening?Quote
We point out your videos by your current employees and "trainers" pretending to be graduates of the Harmony/Great Life training are false, deceptive and misleading, and you respond about how they make great carrot cake, or are "licensed," or are in committed relationships (not denying that that relationship is to a member of the same sex.) No problem with that, but it seems to me folks considering your training ought to know more about who will be training them before they go, then they do. Schools list faculty. Students know who their professors will be before they pay their tuition, even the Landmark website lists their forum trainers, but you don't. Why? Is it so they can pretend to be your graduates in your videos? Wouldn't integrity suggest that ANYTHING they have to share about their training results belongs as a testimony to IMPACT not you?
I don't think anyone has ever thought about having trainers "pretend to be graduates." There are thousands and thousands off GLF graduates who would speak glowingly of the training and be willing to be filmed. The video clips weren't produced by Great Life, they were made (and published on YouTube) by an independent company composed of graduates. GLF had no control over how they did this. I know, however, that their ultimate goal is to produce a feature similar to The Secret and that they interviewed the GLF trainers as guest commentators for that video. Since the video wasn't meant to directly promote GLF, the video producers listed their professional credentials instead of their training credentials (as per The Secret.)
See? Nothing pernicious or deceptive. . . (though I have little doubt that you'll continue along that vein.)
Eventually, if we continue this fatiguing thread long enough, you will have no choice but to come to the conclusion that there is nothing deceptive nor even tricky about how myself, this training or its trainers portray themselves or the training. Trickery just isn't necessary. These peoples' lives and the training stand for themselves.Quote
Then you claim in private emails to me to have enough stuff on Hans and Sally to put them out of business, or do damage to them, or put them in jail (even sharing publically that you know them to be criminals), but then you encourage others to pay them over $5,000.00 to do Quest to TIT1. You say you feel they do more good than harm. Leaves me wondering if you are psychotic.
You misrepresent our PM. I simply mentioned that full disclosure of all the Impact training methods, approaches, history, litigation and religious doctrine would certainly create trainee upheaval. I believe that if you go back along any threads in which I've shared, I have NOT claimed to know that Hans and Sally are criminals. That would be unneccessarily risky when dealing with two people who are known to be litigious. Plus, I'm not at all sure that Hans has done anything that would rise to the level of being a "crime." In fact, I doubt that you nor I know well enough what constitutes a "crime" anyway.
And, while I'm of definitely conflicted about the Bergers' training (knowing it to be dangerous and certainly weird,) I am of two minds about it. I am convinced that it brings a lot of good into the world. Whether or not that is overshadowed by their self-indulgence and charismatic power over their trainees, I couldn't say for sure.
Is it really so psychotic to suspend judgment? I would argue that it's a great way of remaining objective. In order to be considered healthy in the context of this forum, must I go raging down one side of the debate or the other?Quote
>>Out of curiosity: why didn't Ed go into scathing critiques of former trainers such as Joe Buchman?)<<
Well, there is the time factor. . . .
A LIST OF FORMER HARMONY TRAINERS I'VE NOT CRITIQUED:
Greg Johanson -- trained to be a Quest Trainer by Mike Gardner while struggeling to make appointments with his parole officer.
Jill Thompson -- Rising Star grad training for Harmony, using it mostly to date guys in the training. Married one eventually.
Terry Ashworth -- Trained the abundance weekends while driving a car that could not pass the state safety inspection.
Joe Buchman -- one of the most arrogant people around Even moreso than Hans.
I hesitate to trash him because I like his wife Cindy so much. Did several trainings with her (some not in Utah -- HINT, HINT if you're so worried about who I am). Hadn't talked to her in some time. Called their home tonight. They are in the book. Joe was out of town. Was in Colorado. And Florida. Looking for the "perfect" college to teach at. Teaching online and doing the Breakthrough Selling course for Gary Acevedo. It's amazing to me that they are still married.
Cindy says Joe left when they/she loaned Steve and Pam Juback $20.000.00 to pay the rent and keep Harmony open when he was training there.
Instead they used it to remodel the lobby. Really pissed Joe off. He quit.
Then, after lots of lies and delays, the first check Pam wrote to her -- bounced. The second one cleared and she's not spoked to either of them since.
Loaned $60,000.00 to Hans and Sally about 10 years ago. Got paid back on time with lots of interest.
So when I say the Jubacks are worse than Hans, that's just another of the reasons why.
Interesting you don't look into that sort of thing. Especially before hiring the Solomon family.
If you don't look, you won't see.
I heard the JJ Stuff former just mentioned from Sally -- but about being "inappropriate" in a kids training the weekend before they fired him. Didn't repeat that here because, frankly, I don't believe it.
My friend, you repeated it here (for all the world to see.) Now, when you Google JJ Lybbert in a couple of months, what do you imagine will come up? So, I wouldn't pat yourself on the back too much for your discretion.Quote
But being "nice" to you Jayson, or trying to have a reasoned or fair discussion with you just isn't working.
I'm not sure what you're looking for in a "working" relationship with me. Would you like a continued, professional exchange of perspective? Because, if that's what you're looking for, count me in.
Are you looking for me to be brow-beaten by a bunch of angry critics? If so, I suppose that would require my denial of evidence that's right before my eyes every single day: that is, evidence that the trainings I've experienced do work and that they bring great good into the world. If that's your objective, then we're probably spinning our wheels.Quote
You've accused me of slander and libel and as you own, or contract with, or whatever -- a law firm with lots of attorneys for your credit clean up stuff, I hope you'll understand if I decline to write to you again.
I doubt this debate would ever rise to the level of interest (on my part) that I'd consider legal action. But, you've hardly slandered me at all. The others you've attacked might see it a different way. Yes, I would also suggest that you be careful with what you write in public. You better be very sure that you're not mistaken when you state facts about people that they might find slanderous. There certainly is liability in that. And, I happen to know for certain that much of the gossip you've set forth in this thread is patently false. That creates a serious situation for you. I would coach you to practice some restraint.Quote
Except to say regarding Brett, Analee and Kim . . .
1) Giving keynote speaches or owning manafest management does not make one qualified to handle the emotional impact of feedback arcs on someone whose dad killed himself (for example).
Brett would probably agree with you on that. In fact, I doubt that he considers his professional life as something that prepared him to go into a training room. Having been trained by an experienced, Phd trainer (Joel,) on the other hand, might actually give him some substantial right for him to feel qualified.Quote
2) Analee McDonald appears in your video as CEO of a ficticious company, and as if she was a graduate of YOUR training. Everything she has to say, based on results in her life, comes from IMPACT, not you.
(I wonder why as a member of the GLF board of directors, you are okay with that FRAUD?)
I'd be careful. Personal Effects, Inc. is very much a real company and your making patently false statements here to slander her. Look it up on: [secure.utah.gov]. And, I believe that I already explained that use of professional credentials versus training credentials. And, Great Life is the successor of Harmony which is the successor of Impact. In point of fact, all of us did THIS training and Hans and Sally are the break-off, if we must get technical. Again, you obviously have gone to great lengths to educate yourself about the comings and goings of local trainings, but you're still drawing from rumor and gossip. Stating those rumors like fact is risky, not to mention dishonest.Quote
3) Kim is LICENSED??? Give me a break. She'd done Resource Realizations training for trainers. So what. That's like John Colbert giving his book the Colbert book award; or Hitler giving out diplomas for his school in how to run an efficient government.
Kim is licensed by other training companies as well (or at least one other training company that I know for sure.)Quote
As for licensing the LIfespring materials, I see Lifespringnow.com has a list of those who do pay a license fee for using Lifeboat, Red/Black and the like. The Great Life Foundation is not on that list. Neither is Impact. Many others are. You are known by the company you keep.
I'm afraid you lost me. So, if a company licenses their material from Lifespring, then it's a legitimate LGAT that would be supported by you?Quote
The only licensed people I see in town doing this kind of stuff are Paul Mundt, and Gary Acevedo -- both with MS degrees in psychotherapy, and long track records (unlike Harmony/Rising Star/Impact) of runing companies without financial misdealings.
I see. So, there ARE a number of LGATs that you would support. I believe, at this point, I know who you are. Do your fellow posters know that you continue a long and sustained relationship with LGATs? I believe it's possible that they might feel decieved by your characterization of yourself on this board. If I'm right about who you are, you have every bit the commitment to the LGAT training model as I do (and yet you make yourself to look like a critic.) You are NOT in the same boat as the committed critics on this board and I wonder if they know that about you.Quote
As far as the stuff with JJ is concerned, it may or may not be true. Obviously Sally is not the most reliable of sources, at the same time JJ has a questionable moral make up so anything is possible.
A little late for a qualified retraction. . . I doubt JJ will feel any better, now, about being accussed publicly as a child abuser.
That was NOT a kind thing to do.
I understand a person's desire to win an argument and feel like they were proven right. It's heady medicine, to be sure, to conquer another in a bout of wits. But why take such slanderous and cruel liberties with someone's reputation (a person who has never done anything to hurt you?) If you have a conscience about this, I would recommend that you ask Rick to allow you to go back and edit your posts and to remove the careless and damaging things you've said about these people.
If you are who I think you are, you have greatly damaged your own credibility as a reasonably-decent human being, not to mention a professional. I would clean this up if you can. The anonyimity of this board extends only so far. . .
Re: IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
Impacted
()
Date: November 15, 2007 05:42AM
Dear Mr. Orvis,
I'll not be responding further to you.
Your "trainers" are liars.
Just look at your own videos.
Best,
-------Ed
I'll not be responding further to you.
Your "trainers" are liars.
Just look at your own videos.
Best,
-------Ed
Re: IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
RaCeR---X
()
Date: November 15, 2007 06:03AM
Jayson---
Go the hell away... this board is for discussion of Impact, not Grunge Life. Im tired of hearing your irrelevent banter. Goodbye
Go the hell away... this board is for discussion of Impact, not Grunge Life. Im tired of hearing your irrelevent banter. Goodbye
Re: IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: November 15, 2007 06:45AM
boonetahoe:
See [forum.culteducation.com]
Posts may be edited within 30 minutes.
You often come across very badly on this thread, as if you are trying to intimidate people here in an effort to subvert the thread.
As you should know LGATs have a deeply troubled history of personal injury lawsuits, complaints and bad press.
See [www.culteducation.com]
Note the many groups listed within the category "Human Potential," which includes Impact, Landmark Education, Sterling Institute of Relationship, Lifespring, Asiaworks, NXIVM, etc.
There are inherent problems/liabilities within the basic structure and dynamics of LGATs.
See [www.culteducation.com]
These liabilities are cited within the above linked research paper in what can be seen as mass marathon psychotherapy training sessions:
1. They lack adequate participant-selection criteria.
2. They lack reliable norms, supervision, and adequate training for leaders.
3. They lack clearly defined responsibility.
4. They sometimes foster pseudoauthenticity and pseudoreality.
5. They sometimes foster inappropriate patterns of relationships.
6. They sometimes ignore the necessity and utility of ego defenses.
7. They sometimes teach the covert value of total exposure instead of valuing personal differences.
8. They sometimes foster impulsive personality styles and behavioral strategies.
9. They sometimes devalue critical thinking in favor of "experiencing" without self-analysis or reflection.
10. They sometimes ignore stated goals, misrepresent their actual techniques, and obfuscate their real agenda.
11. They sometimes focus too much on structural self-awareness techniques and misplace the goal of democratic education; as a result participants may learn more about themselves and less about group process.
12. They pay inadequate attention to decisions regarding time limitations. This may lead to increased pressure on some participants to unconsciously "fabricate" a cure.
13. They fail to adequately consider the "psychonoxious" or deleterious effects of group participation (or] adverse countertransference reactions.
These groups were determined to be dangerous when:
1. Leaders had rigid, unbending beliefs about what participants should experience and believe, how they should behave in the group. and when they should change.
2. Leaders had no sense of differential diagnosis and assessment skills, valued cathartic emotional breakthroughs as the ultimate therapeutic experience, and sadistically pressed to create or force a breakthrough in every participant.
3. Leaders had an evangelical system of belief that was the one single pathway to salvation.
4. Leaders were true believers and sealed their doctrine off from discomforting data or disquieting results and tended to discount a poor result by, "blaming the victim."
Many past participants of LGATs and their critics have compared the "training" received to "coercive persuasion."
See [www.culteducation.com]
The key factors that distinguish coercive persuasion from other training and socialization schemes are:
1. The reliance on intense interpersonal and psychological attack to destabilize an individual's sense of self to promote compliance
2. The use of an organized peer group
3. Applying interpersonal pressure to promote conformity
4. The manipulation of the totality of the person's social environment to stabilize behavior once modified
IMO--if people have problems and require counseling/therapy, it is far safer to seek help through licensed professionals responsible to a state board, as opposed to someone that does not have such credentials.
There are also support groups that focus on grief, divorce, obsessive/compulsive behavior and other issues facilitated by professionals in most communities.
Additionally there are accredited programs available at colleges and universities providing continuing education that can assist people in developing their effectiveness, management skills and potential.
LGATs and "life coaches" are essentially an unregulated industry functioning in an area of assistance that typically requires specific credentials and professional licensing, such as therapy or group therapy provided by clinical psychologist or psychiatrist, marriage and relationship counseling provided by a licensed marriage and family therapist, or education provided by an accredited institution.
The promise of a seeming "quick fix" or "breakthrough" may be appealing, but a more cautious approach with a credible professional at a locally accessible and established institution, counseling center, hospital etc. is a much safer and potentially less risky approach.
Many of the LGATs expect participants to sign liability waivers, either giving up some if not all rights to sue the company, if something goes wrong and a personal injury occurs.
Credible helping professionals don't require such waivers and remain accountable for their work, not only legally, but to licensing boards and professional associations.
It should also be noted that no LGAT, that I am aware of, has ever done a research study to measure long-term objective results from its programs, such as a higher grade point average achieved by students that participated, lower divorce rate amongst its graduates, less need for professional counseling, higher sustained income, etc., which has subsequently been submitted for peer-review and then published by a credible journal.
Why not?
Many LGATs easily have the resources to fund such a study, but instead rely upon anecdotal stories, testimonials and opinion polls, which measure subjective results instead, e.g. what participants "experience" or feel about their programs.
I have received complaints about LGAT participants being taken directly from an LGAT to a hospital for treatment after a breakdown. Some have spent months, even years recovering.
I have also received complaints of family estrangements, business failures, divorces attributed directly to LGAT involvement.
And LGATs remain one of the most consistently complained about categories of groups listed at the Ross Institute Web site.
I would not recommend an LGAT to anyone under any circumstances.
They are much better and safer alternatives.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2007 06:58AM by rrmoderator.
See [forum.culteducation.com]
Posts may be edited within 30 minutes.
You often come across very badly on this thread, as if you are trying to intimidate people here in an effort to subvert the thread.
As you should know LGATs have a deeply troubled history of personal injury lawsuits, complaints and bad press.
See [www.culteducation.com]
Note the many groups listed within the category "Human Potential," which includes Impact, Landmark Education, Sterling Institute of Relationship, Lifespring, Asiaworks, NXIVM, etc.
There are inherent problems/liabilities within the basic structure and dynamics of LGATs.
See [www.culteducation.com]
These liabilities are cited within the above linked research paper in what can be seen as mass marathon psychotherapy training sessions:
1. They lack adequate participant-selection criteria.
2. They lack reliable norms, supervision, and adequate training for leaders.
3. They lack clearly defined responsibility.
4. They sometimes foster pseudoauthenticity and pseudoreality.
5. They sometimes foster inappropriate patterns of relationships.
6. They sometimes ignore the necessity and utility of ego defenses.
7. They sometimes teach the covert value of total exposure instead of valuing personal differences.
8. They sometimes foster impulsive personality styles and behavioral strategies.
9. They sometimes devalue critical thinking in favor of "experiencing" without self-analysis or reflection.
10. They sometimes ignore stated goals, misrepresent their actual techniques, and obfuscate their real agenda.
11. They sometimes focus too much on structural self-awareness techniques and misplace the goal of democratic education; as a result participants may learn more about themselves and less about group process.
12. They pay inadequate attention to decisions regarding time limitations. This may lead to increased pressure on some participants to unconsciously "fabricate" a cure.
13. They fail to adequately consider the "psychonoxious" or deleterious effects of group participation (or] adverse countertransference reactions.
These groups were determined to be dangerous when:
1. Leaders had rigid, unbending beliefs about what participants should experience and believe, how they should behave in the group. and when they should change.
2. Leaders had no sense of differential diagnosis and assessment skills, valued cathartic emotional breakthroughs as the ultimate therapeutic experience, and sadistically pressed to create or force a breakthrough in every participant.
3. Leaders had an evangelical system of belief that was the one single pathway to salvation.
4. Leaders were true believers and sealed their doctrine off from discomforting data or disquieting results and tended to discount a poor result by, "blaming the victim."
Many past participants of LGATs and their critics have compared the "training" received to "coercive persuasion."
See [www.culteducation.com]
The key factors that distinguish coercive persuasion from other training and socialization schemes are:
1. The reliance on intense interpersonal and psychological attack to destabilize an individual's sense of self to promote compliance
2. The use of an organized peer group
3. Applying interpersonal pressure to promote conformity
4. The manipulation of the totality of the person's social environment to stabilize behavior once modified
IMO--if people have problems and require counseling/therapy, it is far safer to seek help through licensed professionals responsible to a state board, as opposed to someone that does not have such credentials.
There are also support groups that focus on grief, divorce, obsessive/compulsive behavior and other issues facilitated by professionals in most communities.
Additionally there are accredited programs available at colleges and universities providing continuing education that can assist people in developing their effectiveness, management skills and potential.
LGATs and "life coaches" are essentially an unregulated industry functioning in an area of assistance that typically requires specific credentials and professional licensing, such as therapy or group therapy provided by clinical psychologist or psychiatrist, marriage and relationship counseling provided by a licensed marriage and family therapist, or education provided by an accredited institution.
The promise of a seeming "quick fix" or "breakthrough" may be appealing, but a more cautious approach with a credible professional at a locally accessible and established institution, counseling center, hospital etc. is a much safer and potentially less risky approach.
Many of the LGATs expect participants to sign liability waivers, either giving up some if not all rights to sue the company, if something goes wrong and a personal injury occurs.
Credible helping professionals don't require such waivers and remain accountable for their work, not only legally, but to licensing boards and professional associations.
It should also be noted that no LGAT, that I am aware of, has ever done a research study to measure long-term objective results from its programs, such as a higher grade point average achieved by students that participated, lower divorce rate amongst its graduates, less need for professional counseling, higher sustained income, etc., which has subsequently been submitted for peer-review and then published by a credible journal.
Why not?
Many LGATs easily have the resources to fund such a study, but instead rely upon anecdotal stories, testimonials and opinion polls, which measure subjective results instead, e.g. what participants "experience" or feel about their programs.
I have received complaints about LGAT participants being taken directly from an LGAT to a hospital for treatment after a breakdown. Some have spent months, even years recovering.
I have also received complaints of family estrangements, business failures, divorces attributed directly to LGAT involvement.
And LGATs remain one of the most consistently complained about categories of groups listed at the Ross Institute Web site.
I would not recommend an LGAT to anyone under any circumstances.
They are much better and safer alternatives.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2007 06:58AM by rrmoderator.
Re: IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
formerimpactgrad
()
Date: November 15, 2007 08:37AM
Quote
boonetahoe
A little late for a qualified retraction. . . I doubt JJ will feel any better, now, about being accussed publicly as a child abuser.
That's hardly a retraction and I don't care at all about JJ's feelings. I mentioned in my first reference that JJ was fired because Sally believed him to be a pedophile. That's not the same as saying the JJ is a pedophile, although I can't rule out that possibility. I've seen worse things around that place.
Re: IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
formerimpactgrad
()
Date: November 15, 2007 09:51AM
Quote
boonetahoe
Trickery just isn't necessary. These peoples' lives and the training stand for themselves.
If these things stand for themselves then why are there so many people on this forum who have attended the trainings and dispute your beliefs?
Also, maybe JJ should talk to Sally about what she is and is not allowed to talk about. Obviously, I'm not the only one that heard this rumor from her. Maybe you should take it to the source, lol. And do I really have to patently state that I do not believe Sally to be a very credible source? Haven't my prior posts made that completely clear?
I love that you stretch and twist other people's statements yet you deny ever having attempted recruiting on this board despite the fact that your first post claimed that Great Life was Blue Pill's perfect LGAT and your next few posts were devoted to encouraging NOTImpacted to attend Quest, Summit and Lift-Off. I've caught you in so many lies and misrepresentations that its almost not fun anymore. On the other hand you are a great object lesson.
Re: IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
exImpact
()
Date: November 15, 2007 10:54AM
Impacted, I hear you, and I got your clever reverse acronym :) I am sure the more active of us on the board are simply too busy wiping the Great-Life peddler-poop off of our shoes so that we may once again be free to stop and smell the...well, something else.
edit: And GEEZ, is there anyone Sally didn't tell? I thought that was a Top Secret, Don't Ask Don't Tell piece of information about JJ. The contact at Impact that told me was sure that they were an inner-circle, anointed one who was privy to exclusive gossip and data. I mean, they won't tell me anything about what is currently going on in TIT3 now that I am out, but they did tell me that.
I guess you can't keep secrets away from the Angels, and they (being the honest folk that they are) decided to tell EVERYONE.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2007 11:22AM by exImpact.
edit: And GEEZ, is there anyone Sally didn't tell? I thought that was a Top Secret, Don't Ask Don't Tell piece of information about JJ. The contact at Impact that told me was sure that they were an inner-circle, anointed one who was privy to exclusive gossip and data. I mean, they won't tell me anything about what is currently going on in TIT3 now that I am out, but they did tell me that.
I guess you can't keep secrets away from the Angels, and they (being the honest folk that they are) decided to tell EVERYONE.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2007 11:22AM by exImpact.
Re: IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
boonetahoe
()
Date: November 15, 2007 11:35AM
Okay, moving back to the Impact topic, I have a question:
Has anyone else been exposed to the "Hans is the Fourth Son of God" piece of purported Impact doctrine?
Perhaps this has already been covered on this thread somewhere else, but I wondered if anyone here had been "inner circle" enough to have heard that from the family.
I'd rather not explain the whole thing, because I'll butcher it (and because I didn't hear it first-hand.)
Also, are there curriculum lists on this thread for TIT One, Two and Three? (It's understood that TIT III is an ongoing training, but there must be some content provided on their regular meetings.)
I suppose I'm just curious.
Has anyone else been exposed to the "Hans is the Fourth Son of God" piece of purported Impact doctrine?
Perhaps this has already been covered on this thread somewhere else, but I wondered if anyone here had been "inner circle" enough to have heard that from the family.
I'd rather not explain the whole thing, because I'll butcher it (and because I didn't hear it first-hand.)
Also, are there curriculum lists on this thread for TIT One, Two and Three? (It's understood that TIT III is an ongoing training, but there must be some content provided on their regular meetings.)
I suppose I'm just curious.
Re: IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
formerimpactgrad
()
Date: November 15, 2007 10:25PM
Quote
boonetahoe
Okay, moving back to the Impact topic, I have a question:
Has anyone else been exposed to the "Hans is the Fourth Son of God" piece of purported Impact doctrine?
Perhaps this has already been covered on this thread somewhere else, but I wondered if anyone here had been "inner circle" enough to have heard that from the family.
I'd rather not explain the whole thing, because I'll butcher it (and because I didn't hear it first-hand.)
Also, are there curriculum lists on this thread for TIT One, Two and Three? (It's understood that TIT III is an ongoing training, but there must be some content provided on their regular meetings.)
I suppose I'm just curious.
Ex has been talking about posting a comprehensive list of TIT training processes but for now everything is in pieces. We were discussing TIT in a fair amount of depth awhile back during the "Otter" posts. I would be happy to clarify and add content if you see anything there that you have questions about.
I've never heard the 4th Son of God thing.
Re: IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
exImpact
()
Date: November 16, 2007 04:13AM
Well, I wouldn't say it would be completely comprehensive, I am putting together the pieces. Mostly from memory with the help of a couple ex-grads. If anyone would PM me with anything they remember, it would help it be more comprehensive.
I never heard about Hans being the 4th Son of God, but it would fit in with everything else he has claimed about himself. You know, for a training that claims to empower people, it is interesting that so many TIT grads want to pretend to be other people, from the past or whatever. That "be yourself" crap in the core trainings doesn't last very long...
I never heard about Hans being the 4th Son of God, but it would fit in with everything else he has claimed about himself. You know, for a training that claims to empower people, it is interesting that so many TIT grads want to pretend to be other people, from the past or whatever. That "be yourself" crap in the core trainings doesn't last very long...
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