It's been awhile since I've posted here. I was in weekly therapy sessions to help me recover from the effects of attending Quest, and I found that once I said what I needed to say, that taking a break from this message board helped make the recovery process go a little faster. Well, I recently finished therapy and consider myself 100% "Impact philosophy" free, wiser, and have worked through the majority of my Impact-caused issues. :-D
I used to think of brainwashing as something that was rare, and only happened in extreme cases like POW camps, or to kidnapping victims. I had never heard the term LGAT, and I hadn't heard of Impact until less than a year ago. New age philosophies didn't appeal to me in the least. In fact, the friend who originally told me about Impact, invited me over one day (before I even considered going to Quest) to watch the "The Secret". I couldn't get even half-way through it. I laughed at parts, and pointed out flaws in the reasoning. I thought it was completely ridiculous.
Since no one is supposed to tell you what actually goes on in Impact, I didn't know it was chalk full of philosophies exactly like those found in "the secret". I just knew that my good friend and a few family members were telling me how wonderful this program was. Impact was painted as a self-improvement course and I love taking classes, so when a family member offered to pay, I thought: "Why not?" I am still shocked at how powerful Impact's thought reform techniques are. While I was there I was accepting things that I would have NEVER accepted under normal classroom settings. While most of the fallacies of Impact's logic were apparent to me relatively soon after I finished Quest, the emotional destruction took months to recover from. During the recovery process, I slowly worked with the friend and family members who originally told me about Impact. I told them to read this board, and had lots of long discussions with them. They have all since cut all ties with Impact and agree that it is a bad place. They called anyone that they had previously invited to Impact and told them not to go. Half of my friend's immediate family, and at least 5 others were ready to go as soon as they had the money or there was an open Quest, but not anymore. *sigh of relief* Of course it wasn't possible to convince everyone. I sent an anti-impact email out to my entire quest group. No one responded except my buddy, who speaking in complete "impact-speak" said she was going to send me a package in the mail (to help me feel better, I guess). To this date, nothing has arrived.
I had trouble finding a therapist at first. Therapy wasn't covered by my insurance at all, and as a young mother with full time student as a husband, we couldn't afford to pay the expensive rates ourselves. I searched all options, and found out that my husband's university offered cheap ($15 a session) therapy through their advanced graduate students, supervised by licensed therapists. My therapist was wonderful and very understanding. She told me that she was floored by what I told her about Impact. She later related to me that she was talking to one of her supervisors after I first came in, and the conversation went like this:
She said: "So I have a new case, and it is a really unusual one. This person said that she went to a strange seminar for a couple days and..."
The supervisor sighed and said: "It's not a seminar called Impact Trainings, is it?"
She said: "Yeah, that's it. How did you know?"
The supervisor said: "We've had quite a few cases because Impact Trainings. They need to be put out of business."

Anyway, to any of you that are working on recovering, I wish you the best of luck. I hope that you don't hesitate getting professional help, be patient and although this message board is a powerful weapon in the fight against Impact, and even kind of a group therapy at times, take a break now and then as needed. It would also help, if you can, to avoid contact with those who are adamantly pro-impact (or even IMO super "new agey") for awhile. Also, stop using "impact speak" (I'm looking at you Passionate and Impacted :) ) Say: help, think, right and wrong, etc, Stop saying:assist, based on, results, etc. Don't say things or do rituals that you didn't do prior to Impact, and throw away stuff you got from Impact, it may be an emotional or mental trigger for you. Personally, I hid my impact notebook/journal for awhile, and when I recently read it again, the full extent of how crazy I sounded hit me. It was also a good thing, because it was another sign that I was done healing.
Although I am ready to move on with my life, there are two things that I won't be done with until Impact is shut down: 1) if anyone needs help or has any questions, don't hesitate to PM me. (Also, I'm LDS, so if you wanted to know about Impact from an LDS or religious perspective, you are welcome to PM me about that, as well.) 2) If anyone has need of people to participate in something that will possibly bring about Impact going out of business, count me in!!

Thank you army for sharing that.

I, too have been seeing a therapist to learn how to think again. He has actually worked with quite a few impact graduates and says it has been awful. He has a hard time getting to them through all the conditioning and brainwashing they have recieved. There have been multiple divorces and lives torn apart. I have been teaching myself how to speak again...TRY, HOPE, RIGHT, WRONG, UNDERSTAND......love those words.
I am doing a lot better but I still have so far to go. I have walked away from all but a couple of my friendships with impact grads but I see that it is only a matter of time before they are gone too. They think I'm bitter, I think they're delusional. They get their counseling from Hans and Sally which is the scariest thing. In my opinion, Hans and Sally have nothing but their own opinions and agenda..no degree to back them up.

The longer I'm away the more I see the danger and chaos being created. It's not just about me turning my back now. I feel like I get to keep others from going through what I have. There were talks of a new building and I'm sure that may lead to a mass destruction or a mass falling away. I'm hoping for the latter.

I was wondering if any of you knew about the cd's that they sell there. Do you think they are honest about that? I mean, approx. 17 songs on a lot of cd's from different artists. Do you think they have permission to mass-produce all those songs?

Thanks for all the input. I appreciate learning more and putting my mind to work. It was shut off for a good long time.:)

D & C
(finding my way out of the darkness)

>> was wondering if any of you knew about the cd's that they sell there. Do you think they are honest about that? I mean, approx. 17 songs on a lot of cd's from different artists. Do you think they have permission to mass-produce all those songs?
<<

They are theives. This is just another way they steal. I've heard TITers have walked out of the TIT training over being given photocopies of copyrighted materials.

You (or someone) might try writing to ASCAP or BMI. Legitimate businesses (like bowling allys, restaurants, and other businesses that play music) pay royalty fees to these organizaitons. (Not that that gives them the right to sell CDs of the music.)

Integrity? Rent paid on time? Employees paid on time? Bounced checks? Taxes paid? Cash paid by people enrolling into the trainings reported as income to the IRS? (Nope, put in Hans's pockets immediately), Loans from grads repaid to them?

Music licensing fees paid?

You've got to be kidding!

-------ED

Army of Me,

>>If anyone has need of people to participate in something that will possibly bring about Impact going out of business, count me in!!<<

Your description of the "impact" of impact is right-on. Thank God you found a therapist who had experience (or a superviser who had the experience) to undo the sick-cultish BS of Sally Berger and her master Hans.

There are about 170 people in the SLC valley experiencing this crap every month (100+ at Impact; and 40 to 50 at Harmony/Great Life.)

Boonetahoe seemed to think the majority of grads who never show up again are "using the tools and powerfully taking on their lives."

The reality: Without constant mastery trainings, or staffing, those "powerful tools" quickly rust and vaporize into nothing. It's all see for what it is. The same fluff of which the "Secret" is made. A momentary feel-good.

One friend of mine who, regretably, I talked into/begged (oh, I mean "powerfully enrolled") into doing (oh, I mean "being in") Quest described it as:

"Of course you're going to feel good in there. After three days of being beat up, and then stopping, it's going to feel good. You can "feel good" in the same way by hitting yourself in the head with a hammer. When you stop, you'll think you've never felt better.

It's stupid. And you had me pay $500.00 for it?"

I was really hurt at the time.

But s/he is a far wiser human being than I am.

And far more noble than Hans or Sally or any of their 400+ minions in TITIII too.

Just took me awhile to see it.

-----Ed

Just found this link to a website which I believe can help explain why so many Impact Trainees are willing to do, or believe, anything Sally and Hans ask of them (and Great Lifers believe anything Brett Harward and AnnaLee McDonald puke on them, etc, etc):

[counsellingresource.com]


I've heard Pamela (their Summit Trainer) say she would "go to jail" for Hans.

Other TITers have said they would "take a bullet" for him. Or donate organs to keep him alive (or "youthening" as he says -- growing younger now).

When I think back on all the crap I used to believe, and the countless hours I volunteered there . . .

Maybe Stockholm Syndrome seems extreme, but those guys, apparently, never put their victims into a feedback arc, or called them by the names of the most intensive abuse they'd experienced, "Uncle Jim's Penis Pot" or "Daddy's Punching Bag" or "Mommie's Little Boy-Man" or whatever . . .

-------ED

Quote
dazedandconfused
I was wondering if any of you knew about the cd's that they sell there. Do you think they are honest about that? I mean, approx. 17 songs on a lot of cd's from different artists. Do you think they have permission to mass-produce all those songs?

There is NO WAY they have permission to do that, that is extremely expensive and complicated.
Someone could take one of those CD's, or evidence of them, and submit it to the relevant copyright authorities. They could be in serious trouble if that is the case.

They cannot even PLAY the music at their LGAT seminars without paying royalities.
If they are selling CD's of songs, without the proper permissions from the artists, that could literally sink their entire company.
Someone could post a list here of the artists on the CD's, and anyone can contact those artists record labels, and they will get right on it. Are there links online to the CD?
If someone has a receipt for buying the CD, that might be enough proof right there.

If a person/company has been selling, or even duplicating and giving away mixed CD's...then they have been breaking that very serious warning given by the FBI, etc, at the beginning of any movie.
There are massive fines or worse for doing that, and these days they are "making examples" of companies who break those laws, especially those who profit from it.

I found a song/artist list for Volume 8 that Impact Trainings sells.. I would like anyone with access the the acutal CD's sold by Impact to post the song/artist list as soon as possible. Can you say.. COPYRIGHT INFRINGMENT??

Doesnt matter if they sell, use in the trainings, or give the away, it is a federal offense! Good morning Hans and Sally... kiss kiss!

Here's the song/artist list for Impact Trainings Music Volume 8:

Track/Artist
1. Love Song
Ronan Hardiman

2. Cristofori's Dream
David Lanz

3. Rhapsody On A Theme Of Paganini
John Barry

4. Main Title
James Newton Howard

5. Celebration
Secret Garden

6. Before I Go
Yanni

7. Secret Vows
Yanni

8. Love Montage
James Newton Howard

9. Reflections Of Passion
Yanni

10. Shepherd Moons
Inishkea

11. The Outdoors
James Newton Howard

12. Land of Forever
2002

13. Illumination
Secret Garden

Excellent idea.

I doubt it will "bring the company" down, however. They'll just get a letter demanding royalties, legal threats, and likely not much else. Too small a fish.

If they were making 1,000s of copies of movies, selling them on DVDs, then maybe. But lots of places are getting away with that kind of stuff too.

Still there is hope this could result in a large enough fine, or legal action, or a desire to make an example of them, or an attorney whose husband went through this crap, had an affair or something, and really wants to bring them down (and Great Life and all the others doing this too at the same time) then maybe it could happen.

Still with even 100 in Quest, 70 in Summit, 50 in Lift off (conservative numbers) that's 50,000 + 50,000 + 30,000 + TIT and mastery revenues (another $50,000) so about $180,000 per month, that's revenuses for the Impact Training company of:

over $2,000,000.00 per year in (and probably closer to $3,000,000.00/year); call it $2,500.000.00 as a best-guess, rough estimate of annual income.

(BTW: I'll bet their total expenses are a tiny fraction of that. Non-Berger-Family staff salaries, rent, utilities, etc being well under $1,000.000/per year, and the Bergers (David, Hans, Sally, Heidi, etc) pocketing over $1,500,000.00 total).

I doubt ASCAP or BMI is going to be able to go after them for more than a tiny fraction of their total income.

How about the TIT materials. Anyone have copies of all the latest stuff? Suppose they paid copyright fees for any of that?

Perhaps if we pull it all together, find the right attorney, get the interest of some copyright agency . . .

Again, a great idea. Willing to help make this happen . . .

See: [www.ascap.com]

[www.harryfox.com]

[www.bmi.com]

[www.nmpa.org]


Unfortunately, at least as far as I can tell, there's no easy reporting process for violations of music copyright. (Unlike the cable TV companies that now have a website for anomyously reporting cable theft (I'll be Hans has an illegal Dish Network box too though!)

How about someone goes through Quest to TIT III with a wire on, records everything, and WE sell the CDs of that.

Wonder how Hans would feel? And why he/they see it differently when stealing the creative work of so many others?

Oh, right, they stole it all from Lifespring to begin with. Silly me.


------ED

Another thought about copyright . . .

"Impact, since 1985"

If you could get a judgment for 22 years of unpaid copyright . . .

Still they've only been this version (in terms of incorporation) of Impact "since 2002."

Nonetheless, 5 years of copyright violation fines might make enough of a difference.

From my attorney to yours (oops, I meant "from my heart to yours")

-----ED

good work, keep posting relevant info. As far as the penalties, they can be severe these days. If a company is $ELLING other people's recordings without proper permission, that is a serious offence.

It appears Yanni is on Virgin/EMI, but some of those tunes might be on BMG.
[www.yanni.specialweb.com]

(Maybe Yanni will rip their throats out...its always the New-Age type people who are the most vicious!) :-)

The thing might be to just report the alleged infractions, and one of them will stick at some point.
Someone might photocopy the covers of the CD's and mail them into the labels.
Or someone could even just phone the record companies up, and ask to find out if they have permission or not, etc.