IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
dazedandconfused
()
Date: October 01, 2007 11:22PM
Quote
"NOTImpacted"
But then I found myself watching my words around her, like I noticed the misuse of the term "get to" instead of "have to". And the "working" and "not working" instead of right and wrong. What bullshit. Yeah, go ahead and tell yourself you "get to" have surgery, or you "get to" have a root canal. Stupid stuff like that started getting under my skin.
Thank u for sharing. It is amazing how hard it can be to let go of the language having been so conditioned right from Quest. Did you the know that one of the first things that happened to the soldiers in the Vietnam war was they learned a new vocabulary? It changed their perceptions of what exactly was happening and made them more able to follow out their duties no matter what. I thought that was interesting.
One point that I have been seeing lately is the purpose of ego. When one makes all actions in the moment without using any wisdom or analyzing of past decisions, they are in a dangerous spot. Then after the act is carried out there is not an ounce of accountability. It's kind of like saying, "Well I smoked heroin because I was in the moment and even though I almost died and I lost my family it was perfect because I just was doing what I felt in the moment and it must have been what I chose to do and you can't really blame me for it because it must have been part of my journey". In this point this is where the wise man realizes what he's done, analyzes it and does something new.....or the one living from no thought(or under the influence of a training that abolishes his thought process) repeats the same bad decisions over and over because he can always justify it.
(Amazingly long run-on but do you catch my drift?)
Even reading my posts I can see how Impacted I have been....sorry, I'm learning to speak and think again. :?
IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
spiritual?
()
Date: October 02, 2007 01:52AM
Quote
dazedandconfused
One point that I have been seeing lately is the purpose of ego. When one makes all actions in the moment without using any wisdom or analyzing of past decisions, they are in a dangerous spot. Then after the act is carried out there is not an ounce of accountability. It's kind of like saying, "Well I smoked heroin because I was in the moment and even though I almost died and I lost my family it was perfect because I just was doing what I felt in the moment and it must have been what I chose to do and you can't really blame me for it because it must have been part of my journey". In this point this is where the wise man realizes what he's done, analyzes it and does something new.....or the one living from no thought(or under the influence of a training that abolishes his thought process) repeats the same bad decisions over and over because he can always justify it.
This is an exact example of how they use circular logic. Remember in quest when they talk about learning from your history and doing something different. They even quote the definition of insanity (doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results). This is in exact contradiction with their "results" and of course they're not at all accountable for it (too busy living in the moment, I guess).
I also have a general burning question for ex, former, impacted or anyone else who might know. I remember hearing rumors that Hans's account of his childhood in Germany is grossly exaggerated and that his "Von Trapp"-like escape is almost complete fiction. Can anyone confirm this or have any details?
thanks,
spiritual?
P.S. Thank you everyone for your wonderful contributions as of late. They've been interesting, informative, insightful, and have definitely helped me heal.
IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
exImpact
()
Date: October 02, 2007 06:26AM
I know that they were planning to take a TIT 3 retreat to Germany soon, and that Han's and Sally took Wayne Palmer ( [i:f3d6fb0832]the[/i:f3d6fb0832] preeminent and wealthy Mormon TITLDS trainee) to Hans's hometown. He would tell and retell the stories so much, it is hard for me to say.
IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
Impacted
()
Date: October 02, 2007 11:58AM
>> . . . Hans's account of his childhood in Germany is grossly exaggerated and his "Von Trapp"-like escape is complete fiction. Can anyone confirm this or have any details? <<<
It's interesting how little he talks about his brothers or sisters . . . They were there too.
It's also interesting how little Sally talks about hers.
Working relationships? Loving families.
Based on results, not what they are committed to in their personal lives.
The elbow/knee game was just a variation of the palms together, palms apart process that Sally was the last one to get in Lifespring. Felt like everyone was laughing at her.
(They were.)
The stuff they "sell" as "enlightenment," isn't because they aren't.
Like they say,"You can only get to where you are coming from."
And they have. Repeatedly. And will again, soon.
And will again, soon.
And will again, soon.
And will again, soon.
(Gotta repeat that three times to make the hocus pocus work, you know.)
Impacted, but feeling better now.
It's interesting how little he talks about his brothers or sisters . . . They were there too.
It's also interesting how little Sally talks about hers.
Working relationships? Loving families.
Based on results, not what they are committed to in their personal lives.
The elbow/knee game was just a variation of the palms together, palms apart process that Sally was the last one to get in Lifespring. Felt like everyone was laughing at her.
(They were.)
The stuff they "sell" as "enlightenment," isn't because they aren't.
Like they say,"You can only get to where you are coming from."
And they have. Repeatedly. And will again, soon.
And will again, soon.
And will again, soon.
And will again, soon.
(Gotta repeat that three times to make the hocus pocus work, you know.)
Impacted, but feeling better now.
IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
formerimpactgrad
()
Date: October 02, 2007 11:50PM
I guess my take on this is that since Hans has lied about so many other things he is probably lying about his childhood as well. While I cannot conclusively prove that he is making up life stories I think I am safe in assuming that he is completely full of crap.
IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
Impacted
()
Date: October 03, 2007 03:14AM
Former Impact Grad,
>> I think I am safe in assuming that he is completely full of crap.<<
It seems it might be useful for people considering doing (or leaving) Impact to know about Hans and Sally's "Top Ten Lies."
Maybe we could develop a list together here:
LIE:
1) "God gave me this training."
TRUTH
Hans and Sally were Lifespring participants. After starting Impact they and their trainer, John Webb, were sued by Lifespring for stealing the training, violating Webb's noncompete. Court records to verify the above.
LIE:
2) "We give our word and keep it; just as we expect you to do in the Training."
TRUTH
Unpaid vendors, unpaid bills, unpaid employees (especially at Christmas), unrepaid "loans" from Impact grads in, literally, the millions of dollars with a record of lawsuits to verify that. COurt records to verify the above.
Ever set an appointment to meet with Hans? Ever seen him be on time? Wonder why he breaks his word about that? It's so when he breaks it again to you, your "natural knowing" will be that you should have known better the first time.
LIE
3) "Impact, since 1985."
TRUTH
Multiple bankrupcys, reincorporations, shell corporations, IRS defaults (nonpayment of taxes). And a court record to verify this.
LIE
4) The TIT Trainings really are ours.
TRUTH
Sally, the Christensins and others simply plagiarize materials found, largely, for sale at the Golden Braid bookstore.
TIT Trainees familiar with materials used in TIT have sometimes walked out of the training, and away from Impact, when they realized they had, not only not have been invented/channeled by Hans and Sally, but had been stolen from the work of others (Hay House publishing, various new age publications, etc. (maybe we could make another list of that).
Verifyable by checking Hans and Sally's source materials.
LIE
5) "We are a stand for working relationships and loving families."
TRUTH
Strained relationships with their siblings and children. Multiple ugly divorces. A court record to verify the above.
There's a start. What other lies do allyoualls know about?
There are many more I could share, but were I to do so, it might let them know who I am with certainty, and I'd rather not have that happen.
At least not yet.
But their days are numbered.
And they end at the State Prison just down the street.
(Where they will get the opportunity to really make a difference in the transformation of those who need it most!!!!)
So it's all good. All for the best.
I am truly their friend.
Actually their best friend ever.
:)
Impacted.
>> I think I am safe in assuming that he is completely full of crap.<<
It seems it might be useful for people considering doing (or leaving) Impact to know about Hans and Sally's "Top Ten Lies."
Maybe we could develop a list together here:
LIE:
1) "God gave me this training."
TRUTH
Hans and Sally were Lifespring participants. After starting Impact they and their trainer, John Webb, were sued by Lifespring for stealing the training, violating Webb's noncompete. Court records to verify the above.
LIE:
2) "We give our word and keep it; just as we expect you to do in the Training."
TRUTH
Unpaid vendors, unpaid bills, unpaid employees (especially at Christmas), unrepaid "loans" from Impact grads in, literally, the millions of dollars with a record of lawsuits to verify that. COurt records to verify the above.
Ever set an appointment to meet with Hans? Ever seen him be on time? Wonder why he breaks his word about that? It's so when he breaks it again to you, your "natural knowing" will be that you should have known better the first time.
LIE
3) "Impact, since 1985."
TRUTH
Multiple bankrupcys, reincorporations, shell corporations, IRS defaults (nonpayment of taxes). And a court record to verify this.
LIE
4) The TIT Trainings really are ours.
TRUTH
Sally, the Christensins and others simply plagiarize materials found, largely, for sale at the Golden Braid bookstore.
TIT Trainees familiar with materials used in TIT have sometimes walked out of the training, and away from Impact, when they realized they had, not only not have been invented/channeled by Hans and Sally, but had been stolen from the work of others (Hay House publishing, various new age publications, etc. (maybe we could make another list of that).
Verifyable by checking Hans and Sally's source materials.
LIE
5) "We are a stand for working relationships and loving families."
TRUTH
Strained relationships with their siblings and children. Multiple ugly divorces. A court record to verify the above.
There's a start. What other lies do allyoualls know about?
There are many more I could share, but were I to do so, it might let them know who I am with certainty, and I'd rather not have that happen.
At least not yet.
But their days are numbered.
And they end at the State Prison just down the street.
(Where they will get the opportunity to really make a difference in the transformation of those who need it most!!!!)
So it's all good. All for the best.
I am truly their friend.
Actually their best friend ever.
:)
Impacted.
IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
dazedandconfused
()
Date: October 04, 2007 04:40AM
Impacted...its always informative and entertaining to read your posts. Thank you to all for your input. Ex-impact and former, spiritual, etc. thanks for being a voice against this cult.
No matter how many believe this message board is a place to bash and be bitter, I know it saves a few at least from walking through those doors.
Do you know how long it took me to finally admit impact was a cult? We may not have had the special drink and white tennis-shoes but we had sticks and socks! :lol:
Oh sweet freedom!
It's so nice to not be a robot anymore with the glazed over look, "let me take you to my leader."
No matter how many believe this message board is a place to bash and be bitter, I know it saves a few at least from walking through those doors.
Do you know how long it took me to finally admit impact was a cult? We may not have had the special drink and white tennis-shoes but we had sticks and socks! :lol:
Oh sweet freedom!
It's so nice to not be a robot anymore with the glazed over look, "let me take you to my leader."
IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: October 04, 2007 07:06AM
Keep on digging up the truth about these people. It sounds like a "family affair" in the vein of the Gentle Wind Project, which was exposed by former members, and then prosecuted and destroyed.
Gentle Wind Project former members
[board.culteducation.com]
Gentle Wind Project former members
[board.culteducation.com]
IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
dazedandconfused
()
Date: October 05, 2007 10:59AM
Have you all been having trouble visiting this site? There are some days I can't get in.
IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
spiritual?
()
Date: October 09, 2007 09:45PM
dazedandconfused- For awhile I was having a little trouble with the site, but it usually only took a couple of hours for it to come back up again. It's been a few weeks since I've had the problem, though. I just assumed they were doing site maintenance.
I just copied this over from a different thread. I wanted to be sure that all our information is in one spot.
In response to boonetahoe I only have a few words to say. You obviously haven’t read the entirety of this thread. To say that the Berger’s don’t employ brainwashing techniques is naive. I can’t believe you would recommend a training to anyone when you yourself claim the leaders are megalomanic. How could you possibly think this would be a good idea? Putting anyone’s psychiatric health for ANY reason in the hands of people with symptoms of mental illness marked by delusions of greatness and wealth is ridiculous. Yes, there is a desire to keep peace with the family but the answer to doing so has nothing to do with joining their psychotic behavior. No one can help misled, misinformed people by becoming misled and misinformed themselves.
Quote
NOTImpacted
First of all, I'd like to thank everyone who has posted on this site. I have spent the last week pouring over all 62 pages and have learned more in one week than I have in the 4 or 5 years I've been dealing with this insidious cult called Impact. As my name implies, I have NOT attended Impact, but I am trying to deal with the effects of my ENIRE FAMILY, (minus one brother) who has and are still throwing away A LOT of their hard earned money, and turning their minds over to the Bergers (aka Jim and Tammy Faye Baker) :evil:
It all started in 2003 when my brothers wife went thru Quest, Summit and Lift-Off. She changed drastically. (I believe my brothers words were, "She is on a higher plane"). So, my brother being the good supportive husband that he is, decided in order to keep his marriage together he had better do it too. Subsequently, he got my mom, three more brothers (and a sister-in-law), and eventually my sister and her husband. Both sisters-in-law have each gotten their parents to go through it, in fact there will be a graduation that I WILL NOT BE ATTENDING this Saturday. When this nightmare ends, I will have 2 brothers, 2 sisters-in-law, a brother-in-law and my only sister graduate as TIT3'ers, as I believe they are referred to.
This leaves my younger brother and I complete strangers to the rest of what was once was a pretty tight-knit family. I have a husband and three children; my brother has one child and a very special girlfriend. We have essentially been replaced by their "Impact family". He and I have been beside ourselves for years, both knowing in our guts that this is wrong. They have tried, through various means, to get us to join up, but thankfully, THANFULLY, neither of us have succombed. In fact, if I knew then what I know now, I would have begged them to stop. But I feel now, that they have reached the point of no return. I know some of you, Ex and Former specifically, made it all the way through TIT3 and are recovering (I'm so proud of you both!!!), but I am under the impression that you are very much in the minority. It's to the point that we cannot relate, on any level, to any of them. We both did our part to support them in the beginning by attending graduations, etc. (which, by the way, made me literally naseous..) but as time has passed, we have both felt more and more like this is a VERY bad situation and one that we can no longer support.
At first when I came to this site, I merely wanted to see how much information I could gather. My brother had mentioned Impact to someone at work who found this site and I haven't been able to stay away since. Subsequently, he and I are now grappling with the fact that we can no longer be silent. We feel that since we've already been outcast, we don't have much to lose by letting them know how we feel, by now using words instead of actions. I have so much more to say about this, and soooo many questions, but I'd like to get a perspective on what, if anything, can be said at this point to the TIT 3'ers that would be effective. Any insight would be much appreciated!
Quote
Jeri442
NOTImpacted,
I am sorry about your family situation. I was one of those souls who lost their way when I was recruited to PSI seminars. I too became a different person and would only later, several years later, see the damage I did to those around me; those who really cared about me.
Quote
greg hamond
a friend went to a few trainings...and his brother went......he showed me this ugly ring they gave him...then the manager of the local gym was involved......whats up with this group?
Quote
spiritual?
There are approximately 64 pages about the Impact Trainings in a thread with the same title (Impact Trainings) on the Rick Ross site. If you want more information about this training, I suggest you start there. The first 10 and last 10 pages are particularly good (in case you don't have time to read all 64). There are also several newspaper articles and court documents on the Rick Ross site under Impact trainings.
If, after reading these, you still have questions, there are several people who would be happy to answer them.
Quote
boonetahoe
Boy, this is a tough topic.
I did the Impact Training some fifteen years ago and I went through TIT long before there was a II or III. Today, I'm persona non grata at Impact (as many are) and I'm pretty sure they'd force me to drink the bitter Kool-Aid if I ever stepped foot there.
With all that said, I'm not sure what you're so afraid of. It's fairly easy to experience the training without buying into the cult. I know their trainers personally and it's an outstanding training. I am positive that you'd love it. (Don't stone me just yet.)
You seem like a person of solid convictions. You won't be "brain-washed" by their training any more than I was. The Bergers never had the opportunity to use me for their own ends. I simply kept my own counsel on many things and experienced the training for all it was worth (and it was fantastic.)
Mind you, I believe the Bergers are the very essence of megalomania, but their training is simply a spruced-up version of the Lifespring Training performed by exceptional trainers. Why divide your family over this? It's really not that big of a deal from my perspective. You can join your family and not "drink the Kool-aid." People do it all the time.
I don't mean to sound flippant, but you may be exaggerating the evil of this "cult" in your mind. The training itself (Quest, Summit and Lift-off)does little to brainwash you. TIT is a little different. It's basically a course in the personal religion of the organization's leadership (a mixture of spiritualism, Mormonism and New Age.) If you're looking for a religion, maybe you'd be into it. But, it's as weird as weird gets (I warn you.)
I'd suggest you consider doing the basic training and trying the first level of TIT. Then, I'd decide whether or not to continue. It should bring your family back together, at least. It doesn't sound like they're going to abandon this training at your insistence. Unless it's worth keeping your family divided, then it might be "on you" to take Muhammad to the Mountain, as they say.
Just an option. . .
Quote
boonetahoe
I never thought I'd be recommending that someone do the Berger thing. But, your families' on the line.
Quote
Vic-LucQuote
boonetahoe
I never thought I'd be recommending that someone do the Berger thing. But, your families' on the line.
Sigh. Stop being an apologist and go back to playing paintball...[i:f15f2a34ed]and for chrissake, don't use your e-Bay ID here.[/i:f15f2a34ed]
I just copied this over from a different thread. I wanted to be sure that all our information is in one spot.
In response to boonetahoe I only have a few words to say. You obviously haven’t read the entirety of this thread. To say that the Berger’s don’t employ brainwashing techniques is naive. I can’t believe you would recommend a training to anyone when you yourself claim the leaders are megalomanic. How could you possibly think this would be a good idea? Putting anyone’s psychiatric health for ANY reason in the hands of people with symptoms of mental illness marked by delusions of greatness and wealth is ridiculous. Yes, there is a desire to keep peace with the family but the answer to doing so has nothing to do with joining their psychotic behavior. No one can help misled, misinformed people by becoming misled and misinformed themselves.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.