Philips:

There you go again.

The reason some critics repeat themselves is most often because apologists raise the same defenses over and over again.

fatherof3 is listed as an active member.

BTW--"Philips" you are banned for breaking the rules, by posting under more than one name (aka "Otter").

Thanks for illustrating how Impact devotees repeatedly try to subvert this thread.

This type of attempted subversion of a public message baord seems to demonstrate how fanatical and bizarre Impact apparently makes people.

I was starting to wonder if we had another Otter incarnation on our hands. Good luck Philips and for the record, you are not a neutral party. The fact that you believe yourself to be so only testifies to your own self-delusion.

fatherof3,

Welcome to the board. I hope you can provide some valuable insight. Why did you begin with a statement like, "It is interesting how people will be quick to slam something that they know nothing about." then proceed to lecture us on being judgemental? Having formerly been involved with the trainings for several years and taking virtually every training that Impact offers I'm fairly certain that I know more about what goes on there than you do.

As you said, everyone's experience is different and the insights of the entire group are vastly superior to the assertions or opinions of a single individual so I encourage you to make useful comments but your last post demonstrates your lack of understanding of the thread. Before you accuse us of anything further, please be considerate enough to go back and read what has been posted. Your arguments have already been addressed several times in prior posts. I'm sorry to disappoint you if you thought you were adding new and uncharted information.

As far as the Impact apologist thing goes, yes it would be nice to have a "good" apologist on the thread. The problem is that so far all that apologists have done is make blanket statements, blame victims for the damages caused by Impact and generally avoid any accountability. The funny thing is that in the process they have verified many of the claims that we have made about peoples' reactions to the Impact Trainings, fatherof3 was just the most recent example.

corboy,

I appreciate your insights. I think the broader LGAT perspective is extremely interesting and further demonstrates that contrary to Impacts claims, they are not unique in the world.

Ex and Rswinters,

I appreciate the support.

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fatherof3
:shock:

It is interesting how people will be quick to slam something that they no nothing about. We dont have the right to judge anyone for what they believe or dont believe. Everyone is different and should have the opportunity to experience what is right for them. I have recently gone through Impact and have no desire to go into TIT but did at one time. I was never forced to sign anyone up. I actually found it very powerful for me. I was able to vocalize things that i would not say to anyone else and it felt like a weight was lifted off. I also recalled some things that had been bothering me for a long time. Before i went in I felt like i was living in a rat race. Now i feel like i am a completely different person and find joy every morning that i wake up. My marriage has grown so much stronger and it feels like i can be a fun person and not worry about what people think. I do see how some people can take it a little to extreme and get a little weird but i feel the percentage of people that take it on come out with a better life then those that go crazy. I dont know maybe i am just a virgin at this whole thing but that is my opinion.

I would like to talk to the person that is a eximpact i have some questions for them.

Ay carumba! Why did you not read the entire thread my friend. Your confusion would be mollified. I was on staff and a trainer for Impact for over 6 years. Formerimpactgrad and Spiritual? were in TIT3, dontloveimpact, outofimpact and disenchanted have gone through liftoff at least, and armyofme has done Quest. Um...the majority of the people here DO know what they are talking about from EXPERIENCE.

We are not judging belief. We are criticizing an unethical business model designed to empty the pockets of fools, innocents, the ignorant and the desperate. Your part about most people taking the training do not go crazy is true. It is russian roulette for your mind (geez, how many times have I said that? Redundancy is BOOOORING). You got lucky, but even those who keep their relative sanity are living in a [b:ca4c84ef0e]false euphoria of success and joy[/b:ca4c84ef0e]. Welcome to the world of mental conditioning my friend, its a mystical, magical place where everything feels wonderful and good...for a little while. It wont last and you will have to go back for more, or go back to your old self. I suggest the latter (plus therapy from a good psychologist). I am compiling the processes of all of the trainings at every level, and I am critically analyzing them logically, philosophically and psychologically. Maybe you will see what has really been done to you after that. Or you can go read one of the many books and articles about how the LGAT format really works. Impact is no different from Klemmer and Asses, Inquest and Quest in South Africa, Landmark, Lifespring and more!

[perso.orange.fr]

[en.wikipedia.org]

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exImpact

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fatherof3
:shock:
Now i feel like i am a completely different person and find joy every morning that i wake up.

even those who keep their relative sanity are living in a [b:c72fff893c]false euphoria of success and joy[/b:c72fff893c]. Welcome to the world of mental conditioning my friend, its a mystical, magical place where everything feels wonderful and good...for a little while.

If you feel like a completely different person, alarm bells should be going off.

Just as with drugs, just because it feels good, doesn't mean it is good.

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Impact is no different from Klemmer and Asses

LOL!!!!! :lol:

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question lady

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exImpact

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fatherof3
:shock:
Now i feel like i am a completely different person and find joy every morning that i wake up.

even those who keep their relative sanity are living in a [b:1f1cb1a53b]false euphoria of success and joy[/b:1f1cb1a53b]. Welcome to the world of mental conditioning my friend, its a mystical, magical place where everything feels wonderful and good...for a little while.

If you feel like a completely different person, alarm bells should be going off.

Just as with drugs, just because it feels good, doesn't mean it is good.

Good point, question lady.

And, yes, alarm bells should be going off. When I was in the lgat a friend told me it was like aliens had captured me and changed me! Alas, I was deaf to the alarms . . . sigh.

I have to say, the people who write from the lgat perspective I can't read. I applaud those of you who can read them. The lgat view is too crazy and too unreachable for me to read or reply to. For me, it's soooooo hopeless having a "discussion" with them, but who knows, maybe something gets through. I don't think anything counter to the lgat would have gotten through to me when I was under the spell.

sigh,

skeptic

Hello fatherof3,

I can relate to what you're saying because its exactly what I would have said if I'd found this forum after doing Quest (South Africa). I remember feeling lighter and more relaxed, more open to fun and less concerned about what people think of me. I thought Quest was great.


Unfortunately since then I've learnt differently.

You said:

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I do see how some people can take it a little to extreme and get a little weird but i feel the percentage of people that take it on come out with a better life then those that go crazy.

There are two common misperceptions about people who "go crazy" from lgats. One is that they were crazy in the first place (this is not true in the majority of cases I've read about), the second is that they went crazy because they were too extreme about it (also not true in the majority of cases I've read about).

Before my involvement in quest I had no history of mental illness or psychological problems. The worst thing I ever had was a few depressed days or anxiety over a specific issue like a presentation, and the normal stresses of modern life. I may not have coped perfectly with those stresses and like you, I felt I was in a rat-race, but I knew who I was and what the world around me was and how to live in it. I was a normal middle class, middle aged person with a responsible job.

I was never extreme about Quest. I did it, enjoyed it, assisted a few times, and eventually did Inquest (equivalent to your summit and liftoff).

After inquest I had a psychosis. Psychosis means losing touch with reality - where your thoughts and perceptions are not in line with the real world. It means you've Created Your Own Reality... and you're living in it. Except of course it wasn't created by me, but by inquest skrewing with my mind.

A panic attack lasts four minutes and is enough to send any normal person rushing to an emergency room thinking they're having a heart attack; a psychosis is like a wave of panic attacks every ten minutes, for days and days on end, combined with confusion over fact and imagination and memory and an inability to make a phone call or drive to a hospital. In some psychotic breaks people get confused and terrified and kill themselves or other people. I was lucky that didn't happen to me. What happened was bad enough. A psychosis is also like a bad acid trip, except on acid people know they took acid and that's why everything is weird and terrifying. With psychosis you don't even have that luxury. The psychosis I had was directly caused by inquest and was made up of inquest people, concepts, words, images and memories. It took over a year for me to recover; some people never recover from things like that.

So while you are welcome to your opinion:

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i feel the percentage of people that take it on come out with a better life then those that go crazy

I strongly suggest you think about how acceptable those percentages would be if you yourself were the next to go crazy. Crazy is not fun. And do you know what those percentages actually are? No, because its never been properly studied. Most breakdowns and suicides don't occur on the same day as the training, but a few weeks or months later and its therefore difficult to establish cause and effect - and most people who have breakdowns don't tell their doctors what they've been through to get into that state - because of the sickening twisted version of "Integrity" these corrupt organisations indoctrinate.

You seem to assume this could never happen to you. Well think of this: if Impact is powerful enough to make you into a different person waking up joyfully each day (which quest did for me for a short while) then they have the power to do the opposite. You are not immune to having your mind f*cked with and f*cked up.

Would the percentages be acceptable if the next 'crazy' one was one of your children?

This is not about statistics and it is not a game. It is not the red-black game where everyone goes home happy and hyped up on endorphins regardless of the vote. There are real people involved in this, real people with real feelings, real lives and people who love and depend on them, as your children I am sure love and depend on you. Businesses like Impact put [i:4b947b6197]your[/i:4b947b6197] mind and life at risk for [i:4b947b6197]their [/i:4b947b6197]profit. Is that the kind of risk you want to take??? Who care what the odds are!!

Please read this entire thread, then do a search on this site on keywords like "psychosis", "psychotic" and "suicide". A quicker route would be to search "Lifespring litigation" on wikipedia.

This is also an excellent article, written by a psychologist who had a psychosis after attending Landmark.

[www.culteducation.com]

The problem is not only the 'extreme' cases who go psychotic or commit suicide. Those people should be seen as equivalent to the budgies that were used in mines - when there was a gas leak or shortage of oxygen the budgies died, providing a warning to the miners that they were in danger and should leave. Large group awareness training systematically undermines participants identity and grasp of reality, and that is not healthy regardless of where you may fall on the scale.


- Sane

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formerimpactgrad

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Philips
I agree that giving the straight dope is best, but the manner in which it is given will either lend to someone working through their issues, or leaving this site because those heated words scare them away and you have utterly failed to do your best to keep them here, informed and on the path to healthiness again. You can be the key to them seeing it a different way than Impact has indoctrinated them into believing.

Philips,

I have watched and contributed to this thread for about 8 months now. In the beginning most of the contributors were people who knew about Impact but had no personal experience. Their dealings with friends and family involved in the training added a useful perspective but there was very little information available on the actual trainings.

Several former grads began adding information and experiences to provide a bit more meat to the forum. Those posts were supplemented by current trainees and others making a very interesting and useful mix of information. Eventually the topic turned to the TIT trainings which added another level of information on the manipulative processes and dealings of the Impact Trainings and staff.

Since this seems to be the only place on the web with specific information and experiences regarding the destruction caused by the Impact Trainings I take the posts on here very seriously. We have been getting 500-1000 views each day for over a month now and I think the people that follow this thread deserve to have information added that is applicable and useful.

I have spent enough hours doing my part to build this thread that I, as well as several others, have begun to feel like stewards of the thread as we have built it into a place where people can find straight forward and clear information about what goes on inside the training room. While I agree that people are entitled to their opinions, whether or not they agree with my own, I do expect them to consistently add value in their posts (i.e. they must do more than flame or post nonsensical opinions that only serve to take up space).

Let me make this very clear. I wish anyone involved with the trainings only the best in their own personal healing but my main goal is not to "Keep them here" as you stated in your prior post. If a user is consistently posting nonsense or attempting to direct the thread away from the Impact trainings or applicable LGAT information (and no, LGAT reformation theories are not applicable) then I will absolutely lash out in an attempt to correct the situation and I make no apologies for it. If that drives some people away but preserves the integrity of the thread then that is a worthwhile exchange.

My issue is not with a person's opinion but rather with the manner in which they express it. Furthermore, I am not very tolerant of Impact's "language of increase". It is complete garbage and I have no problem calling it that way. Your attempt to take a "relativistic perspective" on the posts is actually funny. I'm quite certain that many current trainees would call my posts or even the entire thread complete garbage, but what makes you think that any of the regulars on this thread care in the least what a brainwashed and conditioned trainee thinks about what is going on here? In case I need to be more clear I will simply state that your implication is correct in that, [b:90dd475116]I do not think that their opinions or perspectives matter, I will not pretend to think anything otherwise and I am not sorry! [/b:90dd475116]This thread is about exposing Impact and providing a source (the only source) on the internet where interested parties can find useful information. If I see the integrity of this source being threatened or undermined then I will do whatever I can to defend it. Remember that I was the one and only regular to defend Otter when Rick initially asked if we thought he should be banned from the thread. I do not idly criticize posts or users but I will address an ongoing problem if I feel the need.

army-of-me,

I appreciate your posts and I wish you luck. I'm glad that you quit after Quest and I am very sorry that those four days have caused so much trouble for you. Do you remember the lecture on helping that Justin did on Day 4? That's another classically ridiculous example of Impact redefining words and blowing trainees away with something intrinsically dumb.

I dont understand how the wording of Impact is a ridiculous and dumb thing. It brings positivity into peoples lives. The working and not working yes is a little out there but for the most part i never got that opinion of how they worded things to twist your mind. I have gone throught Quest,Summit and Lift-OFF which i am graduating from next weekend. I feel that Justin really is doing what he feels is assisting others. I dont know much about the other trainers but i can say that i never saw anything that was in life damaging. I recieved a new perspective for life and am grateful for what i went through. I wont be going any further because i really didnt feel good when i was (around the head honcho) everyone knows who i am talking about but the other trainers i felt were being real. I enjoy this room very much it is great feedback and well monitored. Thanks to the monitors and those who are running the operation.
Thanks

fatherof3

I want to apologize to anyone that thought i was judging them. I have a hard time putting on paper what is in my mind most of the time. Thanks Phillip for being so passionate and so very nice. Yes i am still here. I am not affraid of other peoples opinions even if i dont agree with them. That is the same way i took on Impact trainings. I didnt agree with a lot of what they taught but the parts i did agree with were the issues of making one self positive about life. It is interesting when i went throught Quest i truely feel that Justin is doing what he feels is right. The rest of the trainers i didnt get that from them. Including Hans. I went through Quest,Summit,Lift-Off but will not go into any of the TIT trainings. I understand and agree that some of you have far more experience then i do and i appreciate your thoughts because it has solitified my thoughs. I am somwhat struggling though because i felt that the three classes were in my perspective good in the fact that it lets you get rid of some crap that you have stored. I have enrolled my mother and motherinlaw but am having second thoughts. I guess what i am struggling with is if they will have the experience that i had or one that is scaring like i have heard some of you mention. Sane i thank you also for your words you sound like a wonderful person that has found who you really are through a lot of ups and downs. I will say i learned some very anti-christ things in these classes but ignored them i hope. I dont know what to thing and would love some feedback.

Thanks,
fatherof3