I have a dear friend who has been going to "seminars" since this summer. I just was told it by her it is Landmark. She did the forum part, then 10 weeks of "Integrity" training seminar. She was unable to attend one week, and, got a stern phone call, very pressurized, stating she had missed a lot of breakthroughs and could always particiapte on a conference call...? Anyway, she was called yet another time, then she was asked to host a party at her home. She said no. This creeped her out and finally she innocently said "Landmark" in our conversation where I was finally getting in on the low down and I went crazy, having been assuming it was a women's seminar or divorce group. Nicely crazy of course, but firmly. I had heard about an experience of a colleague who was harrassed a few years ago by LM, did some research and found out LM was the new est. Anyway, here are some questions I have in order to make sure my friend is OK. I am loosing sleep out of worry for her.

1. I asked how she found out about Landmark. It was her Therapy person/Life Coach/ yoga teacher/reiki/ etc. My research has found this person's bio stating their training/experience. includes Lifespring, Landmark, Time Line Therapy, Neuro Linguistic practioner programmer. hypnotist... My friend has been seeing this person for about 2 years. I always thought it was just sort of new age stuff. In the last 24 hours I have become extremely worried and I feel bad to have been so clueless and uninformed of these buzzwords, if you will. Am I correct in thinking the ties should be broken to this "Guru"? Are all life coach things related to LGAT? The lifecoach thing to me is totally new and previously unheard of.

2. Even though last night in person and this morning via phone, she says not to worry, she is not going back to LM, are there things I need to know or watch for that might still be affecting her or lurking in her head? How can I best help?

3. Despite saying she is done with LM, she at this time, says she will still this Guru b/c she trusts them and her instincts are good about said guru. Do I come on strong with lots of reading material/conversation about why she should not? Spell it out very directly? Or do I dare bite my tongue? My personal feeling about this guru is bad. How DARE they drag her into LM, knowing her vulnerability??? Well now I see that is why. I think my friend pays for a house and car payment for the guru every month.... errrgggh. I feel like the Guru might program her to go back through the hypnosis they do, with influence, etc. Agree - disagree?

4. Should she change her phone number? Become unlisted?

Thanks to one and all for your help. I am pretty worried about my friend.
"kittycat"

Thanks to you who sent me the wonderful PM.... I am unable to respond since I am new and do not have 10 postings. One question, is a lifecoach whose published training includes one year of Lifespring, Landmark currently, neuro linguistic programmer", time line therapist, tarot reader, hypnotist, and Seichem Reiki practioner a "risk" factor for my friend to continue using, given she is the one who got her in to Landmark to begin with? I want to go with my gut and do everything I can to get her away from this Lifecoach/Guru figure. I need to know if my instincts are more than likely correct or if I am over reacting. Thanks so much.... I must say I am pretty freaked after reading through so much of this forum and the rr site, plus all the others I have been through in my research. I am sooo thankful for this forum and site -- I know I am just one of many in this situation, but this has been such a great help and a super resource for information. Kittycat

Sorry to hear about your situation. From a lot of what I've heard, read, and personally experienced about Landmark- the impact it has on friendships and loved ones is very difficult to confront head on. You are rightly upset and angry at having figured out what has been happening to your friend. The most common piece of advice I've heard on trying to deal with this is that your loved one will at some point have to come to their own conclusions. And for us anti-landmarkians- being the bearer of bad news can, more often then not, damage or end our relationships with our loved ones. Infact, one of landmarks' lessons to their indoctrinated is; that if they aren't happy with their spouse, or they don't think their spouse is fulling their full potential of a life of 'unlimited possibilities'- they should divorce them.

With this in mind I have my own ideas on how to counter the destructive neurolinguistic programming, and bogus life lessons that Landmark teaches.

[i:0fb9930ea0]I think humor is the most powerful tool for deconstructing Landmark Forum[/i:0fb9930ea0]. We can't confront landmarkians head-on in a down to earth and factual debate, coming from the position of a 'concerned' and 'worried' friend or loved one who wants to share some healthy advice. Landmark [i:0fb9930ea0]programs[/i:0fb9930ea0] their followers to refuse, resist, and re-indoctrinate those loved ones who are the bearer of bad news. Whenever we try to initiate a debate or discussion- they are taught to reply "Well you just have to do it to understand". Translation- end of debate. This is where we need to approach with humorous insight, humorous fact finding, and humorous deconstruction of their buzzwords, ie neurolinguistic programming.

The nice thing about Landmark is that their own buzzwords and life antidotes are full of so much baloney and crap, you almost can't help but laugh (unless you've been deprived of sleep and pee breaks for 3 days). They are a walking comedy scapegoat waiting to happen. Make your critiques lite hearted and entertaining while at the same time avoiding getting into the 'worried friend' speech that they are programmed to tune out of.

How to spark your friends natural curiousty? Laugh at Landmark. Be the fun, entertaining, and witty friend that they crave. Landmark operates and brainwashes with boredom and cognitive breakdown following exhaustion. Those people are dying for some entertainment in their life- that's why they're there. Your friend may not get the jokes at first- but they'll be sitting there wondering whats so funny- and they will eventually want to be in on the joke. It's very important to avoid using the trigger words like-landmark- brainwashing- EST- life coach- seminar- and any other negative labels that they are trained to confront in 'worried friend' debates. Instead, use the buzzwords- and ridiculize them in an impersonal manner that does not directly implicate your friend. You don't want to make them the butt of your joke- Landmark is the butt, and a big one indeed.

The neurolinguistic programming that Landmark employs is insidious and it's the key to their success. And I believe, their potential downfall.

[b:0fb9930ea0]"Imagine a life of unlimited possibilities"[/b:0fb9930ea0] Awsome! I've been waiting to quit my day job and join the circus. Do you think I'd make a better fire juggler or lion tamer? I can't decide....

[b:0fb9930ea0]"That's just your racket" [/b:0fb9930ea0]Damn! They got me. You know the same thing happened to me the other day... I was car shopping and the used car salesman tried to make me sign a legal release form and then sell me a Pinto Hybrid. Well I'm not dumm, I knew it was a [i:0fb9930ea0]racket[/i:0fb9930ea0]. Then when I tried to leave he grabbed my arm and asked me for the names and phone numbers of 15 of my friends. The nerve!

[b:0fb9930ea0]"You're not being authentic"[/b:0fb9930ea0] I know, I know. But look! I still have 4 authentic Jacksons, 3 authentic Lincolns, and 1 athentic Benjamin in my wallet. See? I'm just green. And I like it.

[b:0fb9930ea0]"Oh come on, take the plunge, promise to me you'll be [i:0fb9930ea0]unreasonable[/i:0fb9930ea0] for once"[/b:0fb9930ea0] Ok, if I promise to be unreasonable, will you do it to? Cool, let's go streaking! Sitting on my ass for three days sounds reasonable, but I'd rather do something unreasonably fun. Don't you?

[b:0fb9930ea0]"They can help you have a breakthrough"[/b:0fb9930ea0] That's cool, but what exactly gets broken anyway? My bank account? Does Enron have anything to do with this?

[b:0fb9930ea0]"Your name tag must show at all times"[/b:0fb9930ea0] That's the dorkiest thing I've ever heard!!

[b:0fb9930ea0]"You shouldn't leave the room, because there is a lot of material that is covered" [/b:0fb9930ea0]Ok, I guess I'd better just pee in my seat then. Hey, can I wear your name tag for a minute?

[b:0fb9930ea0]"I had a clearing"[/b:0fb9930ea0] Lucky you. Tom Cruise had one of those I heard, he dumped Nicole Kidman and their two kids.

[b:0fb9930ea0]"Disconnect from your past, and start living in the future"[/b:0fb9930ea0] That's an awsome idea! I think I'll stop paying taxes too. And when the IRS comes after me, I'll just start my own vacation seminar in South America. If Erhard can do it, why can't we?

[b:0fb9930ea0]"Landmark forum has offices in like a bazzillion countries"[/b:0fb9930ea0] Wowsers! Are they counting the illegal offices too? Like in France, Sweden, and Italy? Or just the flooded ones who need help 'clearing the rackets'. Like Sri Lanka.

[b:0fb9930ea0]"It's not a cult"[/b:0fb9930ea0] I'm glad to hear that. I hate cults. They always make people do [i:0fb9930ea0]unreasonable[/i:0fb9930ea0] stuff like recruit their friends, [i:0fb9930ea0]volunteer[/i:0fb9930ea0] at the call back harassement center, host [i:0fb9930ea0]meetings[/i:0fb9930ea0] with no cookies or BBQ, yadda yadda.

[b:0fb9930ea0]"You don't know what you don't know"[/b:0fb9930ea0] Well DUHH! Do we have to pay for that advice, or is it included for free?

Basically what I'm saying- is that neurolinguistic programming is pretty serious stuff. I'm sure there are dozens more buzzwords out there. I've heard there is actually a script containing all the buzzwords and phrases that the landmark leaders have to stick to- to conduct the seminar. That document IS the neurolinguistic program. Your friend is getting brainwashed by having the common meaning behind their vocabulary substituted with Landmark meaning. Common words are taken out of daily context and spun for landmarks benefit. The goal is to create confusion which leads to continued enrollment and increasing dependence on Landmark- once they start accepting landmarks definitions. No one else can understand them, therefor, "You just have to do it to understand". And the funny thing is- these poor people can't describe [u:0fb9930ea0]in detail[/u:0fb9930ea0] what 'it' is about landmark that they think they like so much, because their new vocabulary is, well.... meaningless.

Learn the neurolinguistic program. Learn the buzzwords. Learn the catch phrases. Learn the loopy logic patterns. Then, enlighten your friend with love, humor, and fun. Let common sense prevail. That gives Landmark the heebie jeebies. One day our friends may catch on. Hopefully.



PS. I also endorse talking the tough shit to those landmarkians who aren't close friends. How dare they sneak around our backs and recruit our families surreptitiously! And to any landmarkians out there, please invite me to your graduation so I can understand. I would like to standup at the ceremony, burn my name tag, scream some obscenities about how landmark changed my life, and pull the fire alarm to clear your conference out!

test: It says 2 replies to this topic, yet I cannot see them. One of them is mine, yet to be posted.

???

Attacking with humour is such a good way to go. It will really throw your friend off balance, and while at first it may even make her angry that you aren't taking her at all seriously, it's better than being the concerned friend who is just "running a racket." Over time, continually bringing her back to reality, attacking with the truth will eventually start to break down all the nonsense word swapping forum logic in her brain.

Never underestimate the power of sarcasm :wink:

"Oh is this the thing where they try to convince me that I'm not living up to my full potential then offer me lifelong happiness for just 800 bucks and a weekend?"

But probably most importantly, you will have to speak with as much conviction as the forum leaders do. If you show any sign of doubt in your own assertions about the forum you will lose her confidence.

Remember forum leaders teach people to be VERY agressive and persuasive when recruiting. One forum leader told me to approach people with astonishment that they HADN'T done the forum yet. The flip side of this is that you can be astonished that she fell for it. When my sister was trying to get me out, that's how she dealt with me, with disbelief that I wasn't smart enough to see what was being done to me and she said as much. It stung, but sometimes the only way to beat peer pressure is with peer pressure.

Thanks manchurianforum and dynamix, also, in my post that never showed up, I thanked you know who you are for the PM.

I never would have thought about the humorous and sarcastic approach. That is great. Will do all of that reccomended.

Is it TRULY possible that after the forum plus a 10 week seminar, my friend is being honest in saying she won't go anymore? Or is it far more "in her head" than that and she might end up going again?
Also, if she continues with this life coach/guru, isn't that just pretty much the same, given the affiliations and "training" of the lifecoach? Should I try the humorous approach with getting her away from the lifecoach?

Once again, thanks for the help and support from the bottom of my heart.

To answer one of your unanswered questions:

NO, all "Life Coaches" are NOT connected with Landmark. While I'm sure many life coaches probably have experience with motivational seminars and/or the New Age movement, you can not make a global assumption that all of them are connected with Landmark. Life Coach is a job description, not a type of cult.

It's possible that after 10 weeks- she may be getting fed up with it all (or financially exhausted- temporarily) and may be having second thoughts. But more often then not, when a landmarkian realizes they may face criticism and ridicule from their friends about their landmark activities- they just stop sharing those details of their life with friends. They go underground- like how landmark secretly recruits people by lies and false promises. Have you ever seen a billboard, t-shirt, poster or [i:a9649bfd3f]anything[/i:a9649bfd3f] in public promoting landmark? No. They don't like having a light shined on them because they already operate in legally sub-marginal ways (ie, they are not an accredited academic insitution, and they [i:a9649bfd3f]are[/i:a9649bfd3f] a pyramid scheme just barely ducking the law because they have 'volunteers' instead of 'employees'). That's why I think it's important to avoid tipping your friend off that you are 'worried' as much as possible. Or at least, don't make it a constant topic of conversation. It's probably OK though to counter with some breif and punctual reality checks when necessary. Just don't hang on it.

Try to 'recruit' your friend back to the fun activities in life. Plan a ski trip, or a museum outing, enroll in an [i:a9649bfd3f]actual[/i:a9649bfd3f] academic weekend class, create a saturday evening game night, sunday BBQ, or local travel and sight seeing. Schedule it over the weekend when landmark holds their seminars. Better yet- get a healthy group of friends together and use a little bit of friendly peer pressure to encourage the landmark friend to come along. Landmark secretly creates dabilitating schedules to 'lock in' their participants with obligations. We should create anti landmark schedules that are based on actually [i:a9649bfd3f]living[/i:a9649bfd3f]- not sitting on our asses in a hotel conference room- talking about it 14 hours a day, and shelling out the big bucks for nothing! You can go to Paris or London with that type of money.

And yeah, I have zero respect for the 'life coaches' I've met. All of them have been landmark zealots moonlighting as 'coaches' and copycats to replenish there own empty bank accounts. And they are particularly insidious- sitting perched on your friends shoulder like a little devil- whispering in their ear what they should do and who they should talk to. I'm not saying that every life coach is a landmarkian- but of the ones I've met? Yes. If you have a falling out with the coach- it's pretty clear that the coach may try to steer the reigns they hold over your friend towards divorce, from you! Just greet the coach with the friendliest face you can muster. Life coaches are people who need help too. Be [i:a9649bfd3f]soooo[/i:a9649bfd3f] genuinely friendly to them that if they ever try to coach a divorce- they will be the ones who end up looking like the bitter, irrational, and insensitive zealots that they've become.

Sorry- don't know why some words became underlined links- my computer is acting funny

Quote
kittycat
Is it TRULY possible that after the forum plus a 10 week seminar, my friend is being honest in saying she won't go anymore?

Anything's possible. But with the heavy recruiting sessions they have in these courses (up to 45 minutes or more at the end of every session) it's not very likely. You will have to find a way to give her the belief in herself she needs to break free. Once she realises "hey I don't need this course to be happy, my life isn't going to fall apart if I leave and never come back" she will leave all on her own. And not even the forum leader will be able to stop her then.

Like manchurianforum said, arrange to do stuff with her, get her mind away from Landmark, arrange outings with her that will boost her self esteem rather than break it down. Does this woman have a passion for something? Ask her to show you how it's done and take a geniune interest! Interllectual things are especially good, they will help wake up her brain. She may not show much interest at first, but eventually your own enthusiasm will infect her.

Yes, let me apologize if I sounded like I was labeling every life coach as a landmark grad. I want to make it clear- I do not think that all Life Coaches are bad, or promoting landmark either. I do not want to appear to be making a global assumption. I'm sure there are many many coaches out there who are full of integrity and honest constructive help for their clients. And I am not attacking them.

I am saying that of the very few life coaches I have met (and that number is certainly small, very small infact), they all have been frequent landmark participants. Those people are specifically the 'life coaches' that I take issue with. Because their coaching advice invariably is geared towards landmark. I believe that those specific 'landmark life coaches' are inadequately trained, and unethically promoting themselves as professionals. One last life coach that gives me the creeps is Dr. Phil. I think he is tabloid quality stuff- parading his 'patients' around in front of a studio audience. Talk about intense peer pressure!! It doesn't get any more intense then that. For me, and this is my own opinion, he doesn't represent professional psychologists, counselors, coaches or an ethical approach to patient health and confidentiality.