space cowboy:

I have received complaints about the Royal Way.

In my opinion the group fits the criteria typically associated with a "destructive cult".

See [www.culteducation.com]

This thread includes some complaints about Royal Way.

From my professional perspective as a court expert witness concerning destructive cults and their dynamics, Michael Gottlieb appears to have used what can be seen as "thought reform" techniques.

In this sense devotion to "Michael [was] centered on the fact that he was primarily dealing with the mind".

Cult leaders typically have people "endlessly devoted" to them.

But this can be seen as a byproduct of the thought reform techniques, which they employ and how the affect the mind.

Quote
corboy
Spacecowboy wrote:

Quote

The people that I have actually come into contact with who are Royal Way members are all very prosperous

It may be that these persons were prosperous or had social and economic potential to become prosperous before they ever encountered Michael G.

People like Michael G fall under the heading of luxury spending. .

* People who are poor or struggling to maintain their position, support their children, get out of debt and pay outstanding bills will not have the time or energy to go on long retreats, or concern themselves with pleasing a guru. They will be busy enough trying to please their supervisors at work.

If you have kids and are juggling jobs and short on liquid funds, you dont have the funds for a nanny or for childcare so that you can go on long retreats or guru birthday parties that have been described here as part of the gig for RW.

They may have been selectively recruited because they were already prosperous or had the social and economic potential to become that way.

The people in RW would have been prosperous or already been set up to earn wealth had they never met the guru.

This boils down to a process that statisticians would term selection bias.

It takes leisure and economic resources to be able to take time out for any kind of involvement that entails frequent retreats or attendance at lectures. One has to have time subtracted from work and from family obligations to do this sort of thing.

Most persons are too busy paying bills and being available to family members--stretched for time, stretched for money.

Even if you are reasonably well off and have some leisure time, if you are married or long- term-partnered, your significant other would have to be compliant at least, supportive at best to allow you to give lots of time for retreats or work projects that take you away from home.

An SO who gets annoyed with you for constantly going off on retreats will lead you to these two outcomes:

*You will decide the relationship with your partner matters more than the guru and you will opt for your patner

*You will decide the guru matters more than your relationship and you and your patner will go Splitsville. If you opt for the guru at the expense of your relationship, you will feel all the more committed to the guru or group and attribute your prosperity to the guru, forgetting you were doing just fine before ever having met the guru. You may also be more likely to partner up with some other group member who has already made a similar commitment to the guru.

Again, people busy trying to keep their heads above water economically and family wise dont have the time, financial back up or energy for an LTR with a guru or retreat center.

My bet is others will find ways to recruit the MG followers into new franchises.

Elizabeth Tudor stated that there was no need to worry about who would succeed her; she allegedly stated:

'A Throne does not stay vacant for want of an occupant'.

I am not sure that you have adequately identified the demographics of Royal way followers, but for now, let’s just go with your categorization. Per your categorization, aren’t we talking about those who have achieved great material success on many levels but have yet to obtain peace; peace that should have certainly been obtained after such material enrichment? Wouldn’t that stark realization that a void or unhappiness exist after such success spur those people on to extraordinary efforts to find that peace?

space cowboy:

"Peace"?

This is a very subjective state of mind.

Peace could potentially mean stilling the mind through thought reform techniques, which would not be a good thing.

Why are you here?

It appears that you are here to please the group through your posts, rather than have a meaningful discussion.

Your posts are repeated attempts to posit apologetic spins.

What do you see that is wrong with the Royal Way?

Is there anything you think that Michael Gottlieb did wrong regarding the Royal Way and/or his teachings?

Quote
rrmoderator
space cowboy:

"Peace"?

This is a very subjective state of mind.

Peace could potentially mean stilling the mind through thought reform techniques, which would not be a good thing.

Why are you here?

It appears that you are here to please the group through your posts, rather than have a meaningful discussion.

Your posts are repeated attempts to posit apologetic spins.

What do you see that is wrong with the Royal Way?

Is there anything you think that Michael Gottlieb did wrong regarding the Royal Way and/or his teachings?

Peace is a very subjective state of mind as is any state of mind. I’m here because I made judgments about Royal Way. I feel that they were unfounded. I’m not here to bash or praise Royal Way, just to give an accurate accounting. Since I’m not a member and never was, I don’t have anybody that I’m trying to please. I hadn’t seen the friend that referred me to Royal Way in over four years. You view my comments as “apologetic”, I view them as objective.

The only thing that I see Royal Way of being guilty of is being organized religion. As with any entity that is organized, it has its own culture. I don’t buy into their culture. This thread is making them sound like “the evil empire”. It is all a little extreme!

space cowboy:

No one has called the Royal Way "the evil empire".

In my opinion they fit the description of a destructive cult.

Your view of the group seems subjective, not objective.

All your recent posts are apologies for the group.

Again, is there anything Michael Gottlieb and the Royal Way has done that is wrong in your view?

Quote
rrmoderator
space cowboy:

No one has called the Royal Way "the evil empire".

In my opinion they fit the description of a destructive cult.

Your view of the group seems subjective, not objective.

All your recent posts are apologies for the group.

Again, is there anything Michael Gottlieb and the Royal Way has done that is wrong in your view?

Relative to any other organization that I have been a member of or involved with, they have done nothing wrong!

space cowboy:

Thank you.

You posted the same response three times. Apparently you emphatically wanted to say, "they have done nothing wrong".

Other posts on this thread indicate otherwise.

But you are here as an apologist for the group.

You are not interested in any meaningful exchange of ideas, but rather hope to subvert the thread.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2011 06:36AM by rrmoderator.

A radiance of light, and a few words...

As many former RW members have learned, Michael Gottlieb was a student of Osho-formerly Rajneesh. Although Mr. Gottlieb never acknowledged his influence, the majority of Michael's meditations, letters, tapes and practices were obtained from Osho.

There are many examples where whole sections of writings have been almost lifted directly, and in comparison the volumes of Michael Gottlieb's letters and Osho's writings have strikingly similar theses, vocabulary, cadence, even thought processes. If someone were to read either's works without knowing the author, one could easily be mistaken for the other.

There have been a few RW followers entrusted with access to Mr. Gottlieb's residential office who knew of his sizable, extensive collection of Osho books, audio and video tapes. Little did they realize how routinely these references were passed off as MG's profound "culmination" of many different teacher's words. He preemptively stifled any challenge by claiming "Nothing I teach is original", and "I'll use anything" to reach his students. The examples of direct Osho teachings in his program are so numerous that Mr. Gottlieb must have known it was only a matter of time before the truth would be exposed. He could see that the internet was going to eventually uncover something he could have easily conceded to from the beginning, but still he chose to barely mention Rajneesh's influence. He spoke of him once and only as a peer, never as his revered teacher.

In truth, it is documented that Mr. Gottlieb came to Osho without the ability to express inner sadness or joy. In an openly available audio recording, Osho mentions MG by name and answers a question regarding this inability. Osho spends some time speaking directly to MG and mentions that is it wise that he has extended his stay. Michael's time with Osho must have been a deep experience since it was barely a year after their meeting that MG had his shift to "enlightenment" on Mt. Jacumba. Did Michael ever mention to his students that the body of his work was largely a facilitation of Osho's teachings? Or even an influence? This was a secret that he had to maintain on a daily basis, and it was probably the root of his need for Kabbalistic furtiveness, his resentment toward the dependency he cultivated in his community and his perverse behavior during privates, etc..

Michael always presented his talks as prerecorded tapes that he would play for students during retreats and pilgrimages, or as lectures from written notes from a lectern during his lavish birthday parties. Rarely did he present a talk freeform. Going through Osho's extensive library of talks, one can see that Mr. Gottlieb recorded or wrote his material partially to keep intact the energy and power of teachings that Osho presented off-the-cuff.

Luckily, Osho is one of the most open and published gurus of our time. Let's begin with a number of meditation practices that formed the foundation of Mr. Gottlieb's monthly "Pilgrimages". They can easily be found on Osho's website, created by Osho with specific music and instruction long before Michael's creation of Jacumba.


GIBBERISH and LET-GO
MG would routinely end the first evening of Pilgrimage with this meditation, using the same music. Described on Osho's website as "A method of release using sound and body movement, Gibberish has been described by Osho as “one of the most scientific ways to clean your mind.” It is followed by a guided relaxation into a state of complete let-go."

[www.osho.com]


LAUGHING MEDITATION
This was the second of three meditations that MG considered foundational to Pilgrimage. As quoted from Osho's book, "Beyond Enlightenment", chapter 27, page 11:
"And there is no need that there should be some occasion, some cause. In my meditation camps I used to have a laughing meditation – for no reason, people would sit and just start laughing. At first they would feel a little awkward that there was no reason, but when everybody was doing it, they would also start. Soon, everybody was in such a great laughter, people were rolling on the ground. They were laughing at the very fact that so many people were laughing for no reason at all; there was nothing, not even a joke had been told. And it went on like waves."

From Osho's book, "The Message Beyond Words", chapter 5, page 13:

"While you are doing this laughing meditation, don’t be afraid of what your neighbor will think about you – your laughter will encourage him also because he is also afraid of you! Add this experiment as your morning meditation while you are still in bed."


CRYING MEDITATION
This was the third meditation that MG considered foundational to Pilgrimage. All three were done as a rule until the last 10 years of his life, when he would try another practice or leave one or all out completely. From Osho's book, "YAA-HOO! The Mystic Rose", chapter 30, page 4:

"…cry and weep without any reason, just as an exercise, a meditation…nobody will believe it. Tears have never been accepted as meditation. And I tell you, they are not only a meditation, they are a medicine also. You will have better eyesight and you will have better inner vision.
All that this world needs is a good cleansing of the heart of all the inhibitions of the past. Laughter and tears can do both. Tears will take out all the agony that is hidden inside you and laughter will take all that is preventing your ecstasy. Once you have learned the art you will be immensely surprised: why has this not been told up to now? There is a reason: nobody has wanted humanity to have the freshness of a roseflower and the fragrance and the beauty."
"…you have to allow yourself to weep, cry, for no reason at all – just the tears are ready to come. You have been preventing them. Just don’t prevent, and whenever you feel they are not coming, just say, 'Yaa-Boo!'."


OSHO® DYNAMIC MEDITATION™
Michael would have his pilgrims do this exact one from time to time, using the same music. The description from Osho's website: "This 1-hour meditation is a fast, intense and thorough way to break old, ingrained patterns in the bodymind that keep one imprisoned in the past, and to experience the freedom, the witnessing, silence and peace that are hidden behind these prison walls. The meditation is meant to be done in the early morning, when “the whole of nature becomes alive, the night has gone, the sun is coming up and everything becomes conscious and alert.”

[www.osho.com]


OSHO® KUNDALINI MEDITATION™
This one was the final meditation of MG's introductory "first level" retreats but also done occasionally during pilgrimage. From the Osho website: "This 1-hour “sister meditation” to the OSHO Dynamic is best done at sunset or in the late afternoon. Being fully immersed in the shaking and dancing of the first two stages helps to “melt” the rock-like being, wherever the energy flow has been repressed and blocked. Then that energy can flow, dance and be transformed into bliss and joy. The last two stages enable all this energy to flow vertically, to move upwards into silence. It is a highly effective way of unwinding and letting go at the end of the day."

[www.osho.com]



OSHO® WHIRLING MEDITATION™
Michael had his students practice this whirling med exactly as Osho had created and defined it. From the Osho website: "Whirling is an ancient Sufi technique. While your whole body is moving you become aware of your very being, the watcher at the center, which is unmoving. You learn to be an unidentified witness at the center of the cyclone. This 1-hour meditation is best done on an empty stomach, on bare feet and wearing loose clothing."

[www.osho.com]



MORE TO COME...

As an addendum to the last post, the following RW/Osho meditation music and sounds can be found on iTunes in their exact sequence.
I find it interesting that these sound sequences are perceived as unique and private to the RW community. The whirling music was used for years but later abandoned for other recordings that met Paprika's approval, with Michael's blessing.

OSHO® KUNDALINI MEDITATION™
[itunes.apple.com]

OSHO® DYNAMIC MEDITATION™
[itunes.apple.com]

OSHO® WHIRLING MEDITATION™
[itunes.apple.com]

A radiance of light… and a few comparative words…


From Michael Gottlieb, Letter 37 (commonly known in RW as "The Service Letter"), Page 2, Paragraph 1:

"Let it be clear… this is not easy. It is very difficult. It may be the most difficult thing anyone can achieve. To accept and believe that I am the cause of my misery… of all my hell, is very deep, very difficult. We want to hear differently. When someone else tells us we are the victim, that someone else is exploiting us, that someone else is the cause of our own misery, that makes us feel good. That person who tells us these things looks so sympathetic, and is such a friend, because he makes us feel good. But this goodness is very temporary. In fact, this goodness can be dangerous because it perpetuates, it perpetuates the cause of the misery."


From Osho, "The Path of Yoga", Chapter 10, Page 4:

"…that you are the cause of your miseries. This is very hard. This is the most difficult thing to understand, that “I am the cause of my miseries.” This hits deep, one feels hurt. Whenever someone says someone else is the cause you feel okay and that person looks sympathetic. If he says, “You are a sufferer, a victim, and others are exploiting you, others are doing damage, others are violent,” you feel good. But this goodness is not going to last. It is a momentary consolation, and dangerous, at a very great cost, because he is helping the cause of your misery."




MG, continuing:

"When you are with a true Teacher he appears harsh because he forces you to the fact that you are not the victim, that you are the cause. This is not easy. But once you accept it, once you understand it, once you feel that you are the cause of hell, already transformation has begun, already half the work is done. Once you understand that you are the cause, a great change will come over you, because you will no longer cooperate with the cause of misery."


Osho, continuing:

"If you go to a buddha, to an enlightened person, he is bound to be hard, because he will force you to the fact that you are the cause. And once you start feeling that you are the cause of your hell, the transformation has already started. The moment you feel this, half the work is already done. You are already on the path, you have already moved. A great change has come over you."




MG, continuing:

"You will no longer say, 'My wife upsets me, my wife makes me angry.' You will understand that you chose this wife and you probably chose her for this reason. You will no longer say, 'My husband is a great problem for me.' You chose this husband, etcetera, ra, ra."

"The more you make others responsible for your life the more a slave you are. If you say your wife makes you angry, then you are a slave to your wife. If you say your husband is making trouble, then you are a slave to your husband."



Osho, continuing:

"The more you make others responsible for your life the more you are a slave. If you say, “My wife is making me angry,” then you are a slave. If you say your husband is creating trouble for you, then you are a slave. Even if your husband is creating trouble, you have chosen that husband. And you wanted this trouble, this type of trouble – it is your choice. If your wife is making hell…you have chosen this wife."




MG:

"On this plane the greatest freedom comes from this wisdom that you, however you are, wherever you are, whatever you are, you are the cause."


Osho:

"So whatsoever I say to you is just to make you alert of a single fact: that wherever you are, whatsoever you are, you are the cause."




For those who have access to Mr. Gottlieb's letters, you are invited to check these quotes for accuracy. If you sign up for free access to Osho's library, you can check his quotes as well. They are all indeed accurate, and a typical example of proof that MG's writings went beyond borrowing Osho's concepts. One is reminded of that late night term paper technique, where changing a few words here and there, and rearranging a few sentences might keep you from being accused of… well, you know…


MORE TO COME...