Pressuring children into Landmark for Teens
Posted by:
lanajae
()
Date: August 06, 2005 03:11PM
Hi,
It's been awhile since I posted about a friend who's girlfriend got him involved in LE. Around Christmas she broke off their engagement and he returned to his former self, although completely denied that LE had anything to do with the breakup (B.S.).
He's a single parent with custody of his two kids, ages 13 and 16. My children are close to these kids.
Yesterday we found out that the kids were being forced into going to a recruitment session and their dad said they HAD to go or would be grounded. My son spent the evening with the 16 year old tonight and he told him that they had to meet with a "circle of people" last night about this Landmark thing. His dad had told him it wasn't about going to anything, it was just a fun thing to learn about communicating and being able to talk about feelings. The 16 year old told my son that it was a high pressure sales pitch for over 2 hours. The 13 year old started crying really hard saying she didn't want to go and kept crying. They held them for another hour and a half until they signed some papers. The 16 year old said that they were all talking strange, in a monotone and very slowly - he felt like the only way to leave was to sign the papers. I am convinced he was told not to talk about it as it took my son most of the afternoon and evening to get this much out of him and continually he repeated, "I don't want to talk about it" and "don't ask me anything about it."
I don't know details, but apparently the ex-girlfriend conned the dad into going to a concert (probably full of these Landmark scumbags) last weekend and within days all of this happened. I'm assuming that she came up with some story saying the kids were the reason she broke off the engagement, and "if only" they'd go to this, then everything would be perfect again (to the tune of $475 for child #1 and $425 for child #2 - how nice they discount multiple siblings).
I'm really pissed off right now so forgive me if this sounds harsh, but I feel like the kids are being prostituted.
The reason I am writing other than to vent is to ask if anyone knows if a state/county social services agency has intervened in a Landmark situation involving kids. According to their blurb about the teen course it's 3 days, 9:00 a.m. and ends at 7:30 p.m. [b:a88cd810c0][u:a88cd810c0]or later[/u:a88cd810c0][/b:a88cd810c0]. They get [u:a88cd810c0][b:a88cd810c0]a[/b:a88cd810c0][/u:a88cd810c0] meal break.
I need ideas on what I could do or if you all think I should just stay out of it and watch another train wreck.
We live in MN and I looked up the dates for the teen thing and it begins on August 19th. If anyone knows of any case law regarding Landmark and kids, please point me in the right direction. Thanks.
It's been awhile since I posted about a friend who's girlfriend got him involved in LE. Around Christmas she broke off their engagement and he returned to his former self, although completely denied that LE had anything to do with the breakup (B.S.).
He's a single parent with custody of his two kids, ages 13 and 16. My children are close to these kids.
Yesterday we found out that the kids were being forced into going to a recruitment session and their dad said they HAD to go or would be grounded. My son spent the evening with the 16 year old tonight and he told him that they had to meet with a "circle of people" last night about this Landmark thing. His dad had told him it wasn't about going to anything, it was just a fun thing to learn about communicating and being able to talk about feelings. The 16 year old told my son that it was a high pressure sales pitch for over 2 hours. The 13 year old started crying really hard saying she didn't want to go and kept crying. They held them for another hour and a half until they signed some papers. The 16 year old said that they were all talking strange, in a monotone and very slowly - he felt like the only way to leave was to sign the papers. I am convinced he was told not to talk about it as it took my son most of the afternoon and evening to get this much out of him and continually he repeated, "I don't want to talk about it" and "don't ask me anything about it."
I don't know details, but apparently the ex-girlfriend conned the dad into going to a concert (probably full of these Landmark scumbags) last weekend and within days all of this happened. I'm assuming that she came up with some story saying the kids were the reason she broke off the engagement, and "if only" they'd go to this, then everything would be perfect again (to the tune of $475 for child #1 and $425 for child #2 - how nice they discount multiple siblings).
I'm really pissed off right now so forgive me if this sounds harsh, but I feel like the kids are being prostituted.
The reason I am writing other than to vent is to ask if anyone knows if a state/county social services agency has intervened in a Landmark situation involving kids. According to their blurb about the teen course it's 3 days, 9:00 a.m. and ends at 7:30 p.m. [b:a88cd810c0][u:a88cd810c0]or later[/u:a88cd810c0][/b:a88cd810c0]. They get [u:a88cd810c0][b:a88cd810c0]a[/b:a88cd810c0][/u:a88cd810c0] meal break.
I need ideas on what I could do or if you all think I should just stay out of it and watch another train wreck.
We live in MN and I looked up the dates for the teen thing and it begins on August 19th. If anyone knows of any case law regarding Landmark and kids, please point me in the right direction. Thanks.
Pressuring children into Landmark for Teens
Posted by:
midonov123
()
Date: August 09, 2005 09:50AM
Quote
lanajae
Hi,
It's been awhile since I posted about a friend who's girlfriend got him involved in LE. Around Christmas she broke off their engagement and he returned to his former self, although completely denied that LE had anything to do with the breakup (B.S.).
He's a single parent with custody of his two kids, ages 13 and 16. My children are close to these kids.
Yesterday we found out that the kids were being forced into going to a recruitment session and their dad said they HAD to go or would be grounded. My son spent the evening with the 16 year old tonight and he told him that they had to meet with a "circle of people" last night about this Landmark thing. His dad had told him it wasn't about going to anything, it was just a fun thing to learn about communicating and being able to talk about feelings. The 16 year old told my son that it was a high pressure sales pitch for over 2 hours. The 13 year old started crying really hard saying she didn't want to go and kept crying. They held them for another hour and a half until they signed some papers. The 16 year old said that they were all talking strange, in a monotone and very slowly - he felt like the only way to leave was to sign the papers. I am convinced he was told not to talk about it as it took my son most of the afternoon and evening to get this much out of him and continually he repeated, "I don't want to talk about it" and "don't ask me anything about it."
I don't know details, but apparently the ex-girlfriend conned the dad into going to a concert (probably full of these Landmark scumbags) last weekend and within days all of this happened. I'm assuming that she came up with some story saying the kids were the reason she broke off the engagement, and "if only" they'd go to this, then everything would be perfect again (to the tune of $475 for child #1 and $425 for child #2 - how nice they discount multiple siblings).
I'm really pissed off right now so forgive me if this sounds harsh, but I feel like the kids are being prostituted.
The reason I am writing other than to vent is to ask if anyone knows if a state/county social services agency has intervened in a Landmark situation involving kids. According to their blurb about the teen course it's 3 days, 9:00 a.m. and ends at 7:30 p.m. [b:2476382d6a][u:2476382d6a]or later[/u:2476382d6a][/b:2476382d6a]. They get [u:2476382d6a][b:2476382d6a]a[/b:2476382d6a][/u:2476382d6a] meal break.
I need ideas on what I could do or if you all think I should just stay out of it and watch another train wreck.
We live in MN and I looked up the dates for the teen thing and it begins on August 19th. If anyone knows of any case law regarding Landmark and kids, please point me in the right direction. Thanks.
I read your story and I feel outraged about Landmark targetting kids! All I can say is those kids should stay away from Landmark. The most effective offense I have found is to point at the Landmark philosophy which is against the Bible (the concept of "responsibility" or "blaming the victim" is in blatant contradiction with God's words in the book of Job). Armed with this type of arguments, you can really challenge Landmark by saying that their endoctrination goes against core religious beliefs. Why don't you take this to your local community church. The church is suppose to help to poor and the weak to fight against deviances from God's words. Maybe they can help. Or call the Landmark center manager and chalenge him yourself. We have to put an end to their manipulation especially when they are targetting our kids!!! Of course, this should not be a religious debate. I am only pointing at this as a mean to attack Landmark's system of beliefs using another (religious) system of beliefs.
Pressuring children into Landmark for Teens
Posted by:
lanajae
()
Date: August 09, 2005 01:57PM
Quote
midonov123
I read your story and I feel outraged about Landmark targetting kids! All I can say is those kids should stay away from Landmark. The most effective offense I have found is to point at the Landmark philosophy which is against the Bible (the concept of "responsibility" or "blaming the victim" is in blatant contradiction with God's words in the book of Job). Armed with this type of arguments, you can really challenge Landmark by saying that their endoctrination goes against core religious beliefs. Why don't you take this to your local community church. The church is suppose to help to poor and the weak to fight against deviances from God's words. Maybe they can help. Or call the Landmark center manager and chalenge him yourself. We have to put an end to their manipulation especially when they are targetting our kids!!! Of course, this should not be a religious debate. I am only pointing at this as a mean to attack Landmark's system of beliefs using another (religious) system of beliefs.
Thanks for your reply and outrage. I'm afraid we won't get very far with the dad regarding Biblical issues as he doesn't attend church and hasn't had his kids involved in a church. The girlfriend is an active Catholic - apparently she finds that Landmark and her church are a nice fit, which I don't understand at all.
We had the dad and the 13 year old girl over to our home the other night and my husband tried to engage the dad in a conversation about Landmark. He told him that it was fine if he found Landmark helpful, but to involve children wasn't fair to them. His reply was that he thought everyone should go to a forum and the kids can make their own decision whether or not they want to go. This was probably a lie, as we know that both the kids were held until they signed something. My husband also told him that he knew that the child forum was being held August 19-21 in Edina, MN so instantly the dad said that they had a sports event that weekend in another state, about 250 miles away (sounded like a coverup - they've never traveled that far away for this sport).
I'm in the process of writing a letter to our state attorney general. I know it's a long shot. My biggest obstacle is that no one seems to have heard of Landmark, I don't get why they can remain so secret.
I'm going to try to talk to the dad myself, I couldn't the other night as my anger over what he's doing to his kids is making me want to scream at him. During the six months that he was away from Landmark, he refused to speak about it - we had hoped it was out of embarassment.
He claims he's not "involved" in Landmark - he only goes to "free" things and says he'll never go to anything else that costs money. Does anyone know what these free things are? Wouldn't they be meetings that reactivate some transformation feelings and guilt them into enrolling others?
I like your idea of calling the Landmark center mgr., but I feel I don't have enough knowledge about what they do to the kids during their forum. I don't even know what the point of enrolling children is (money making aside). These two kids do not have influence over other kids at school and talking about Landmark would most likely cause other kids to avoid them, which is a teenager's worst nightmare.
We've warned our kids that are the same age that if they do go to the forum, they aren't allowed to be around them for several weeks unless we are in the same room (I hate that I feel like this), but I don't want them witnessing the strangeness and possibly being enticed from the mysteriousness. I can't count the times I heard "I can't explain it, it's something you have to see for yourself" from their dad after he attended the forum.
Pressuring children into Landmark for Teens
Posted by:
grub
()
Date: August 09, 2005 09:27PM
Quote
midonov123Quote
lmidonov123
I read your story and I feel outraged about Landmark targetting kids! All I can say is those kids should stay away from Landmark. The most effective offense I have found is to point at the Landmark philosophy which is against the Bible (the concept of "responsibility" or "blaming the victim" is in blatant contradiction with God's words in the book of Job). Armed with this type of arguments, you can really challenge Landmark by saying that their endoctrination goes against core religious beliefs.
That would only work if the person is religious to start with. There are those (myself included) that feel that religious are just large, popular cults. They don't promote rational, logical thinking while enslaving one's mind.
But that's for another forum and thread. :)
Pressuring children into Landmark for Teens
Posted by:
grub
()
Date: August 10, 2005 09:50PM
Interesting story. A relative of mine is heavily into Landmark. He was pushing a younger brother to try the teen course. Parents said "no way." Younger brother and I were talking about it and he said that the 'recruitment' has stopped.
I said "Wait until you're 18. You'll get some crap saying "you can make your own decisions now! Come to Landmark!" We were out having a beer for his birthday some time later and he told me that he got a birthday call which went pretty much as I said. "See? He waited all this time and pounced. Tell me that's rational behaviour." We just laughed about it.
My point of this is that Landmark and its zealots will jump at any opportunity to ensnare a mind. Their actions are predatorial.
I said "Wait until you're 18. You'll get some crap saying "you can make your own decisions now! Come to Landmark!" We were out having a beer for his birthday some time later and he told me that he got a birthday call which went pretty much as I said. "See? He waited all this time and pounced. Tell me that's rational behaviour." We just laughed about it.
My point of this is that Landmark and its zealots will jump at any opportunity to ensnare a mind. Their actions are predatorial.
Pressuring children into Landmark for Teens
Posted by:
Concerned Oz
()
Date: August 16, 2005 05:30AM
lanajae,
Can you get the police involved? Can you talk with these children and tell them how bad Landmark is and that they need to go to the police as they are being coerced.
Don't wait to find precedents - Look up the Landmark site and see the details of Landmark for Teens.
Sometimes we are concerned about disturbing the equilibrium of a family and wonder about what is right to do. These kids lives could be recked if they do this course.
Call the police and social security. Work with your son as the comms link to the kids - don't let this go.
Oz
Can you get the police involved? Can you talk with these children and tell them how bad Landmark is and that they need to go to the police as they are being coerced.
Don't wait to find precedents - Look up the Landmark site and see the details of Landmark for Teens.
Sometimes we are concerned about disturbing the equilibrium of a family and wonder about what is right to do. These kids lives could be recked if they do this course.
Call the police and social security. Work with your son as the comms link to the kids - don't let this go.
Oz
Pressuring children into Landmark for Teens
Posted by:
Concerned Oz
()
Date: August 16, 2005 05:45AM
lanajae,
The following links may help you.
[b:e2952c8a56]The 1st one is an analysis of the the agreements signed at Landmark.[/b:e2952c8a56]
Personal Info – Landmark Agreements
[board.culteducation.com]
[b:e2952c8a56]This thread has a series of related threads on landmark and children[/b:e2952c8a56]
Teenagers and children participating in the Forum
[board.culteducation.com]
[b:e2952c8a56]This thread is about another child LGAT originating from Lifespring and has links to a parents long hard fight
[/b:e2952c8a56]Teen Help, WWASP, ISA, Resource Realizations
[board.culteducation.com]
Hope it all helps.
Oz
The following links may help you.
[b:e2952c8a56]The 1st one is an analysis of the the agreements signed at Landmark.[/b:e2952c8a56]
Personal Info – Landmark Agreements
[board.culteducation.com]
[b:e2952c8a56]This thread has a series of related threads on landmark and children[/b:e2952c8a56]
Teenagers and children participating in the Forum
[board.culteducation.com]
[b:e2952c8a56]This thread is about another child LGAT originating from Lifespring and has links to a parents long hard fight
[/b:e2952c8a56]Teen Help, WWASP, ISA, Resource Realizations
[board.culteducation.com]
Hope it all helps.
Oz
Pressuring children into Landmark for Teens
Posted by:
lanajae
()
Date: August 17, 2005 01:07PM
Thanks Oz, I'm doing whatever I can think of. I know the kids won't go to the police or anything like that - all they have is their dad and wouldn't jeopardize their relationship with him. I just can't understand why he'd consider putting his kids through something so awful - but at the same time, he's the type who'd wish military basic training on everyone just for the experience.
The dad still claims he's going out of town for his daughter's sporting event this weekend. We hope that's true. Does anyone know if Landmark zombies get "credit" just for people attending the information/recruitment meeting?
The dad still claims he's going out of town for his daughter's sporting event this weekend. We hope that's true. Does anyone know if Landmark zombies get "credit" just for people attending the information/recruitment meeting?
Pressuring children into Landmark for Teens
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: August 17, 2005 07:06PM
Sounds like you may need to consult with an attorney in your area.
Pressuring children into Landmark for Teens
Posted by:
midonov123
()
Date: August 17, 2005 10:57PM
Quote
lanajae
Does anyone know if Landmark zombies get "credit" just for people attending the information/recruitment meeting?
Of course they do. That's part of the whole gimmik. Those who do the ILP training or other advanced training (like seminar leader) must fill their "objectives" by enrolling people to an "Introduction". I know that for the seminar leader program, they have to give introductions to 31 newbies. But Landmarkians will never admit they enroll people to meet their objectives. They will insist they just want to "share" their new possibilities with them, and tell them how great their life is and why they should do the Landmark Forum and bla bla bla... Pathetic isn't it?
MD
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