i find it interesting that landmark preaches how they dont make much profit,
even though they say they are a for profit company and then we find
out that their main offices at one time were in the world trade center.

if they arent making much money then how could they afford to office there in
the first place.

they dont have any truth u know.

Hi Patrick,

Just to clarify, Landmark has never said it doesn't make a profit what they say is that they are putting in the profit back into the company.

Having said that. I think there are a few people who are getting paid large amounts while others do the work!

Their main head quarters are in San Francisco.

Their New York office used to be in the world trade centre. When I was on staff Management used to quote how important location was which is why our office was never closed despite making huge losses. I am guessing this is why they had their offices in the World trade centre.

yes, u are correct. they havent said they didnt make any profit but they have
implied to the people that they might not be able to survive without all the
free labor.

they do imply that in order for people to "get" the most from their forum
or other program that they need to volunteer.

do u have any idea how much they were paying for their offices in the
world trade center?

if not maybe u know or we can find out how much space they leased
and how much it cost them per square foot to be there. the amount
of money should be quite large.

and my point is if they manage their gads with their desire to get them
to work for free and then are paying high rental costs to be in
such a fine area then that itself would tell us about what landmark is,
would u agree ?

Quote

yes, u are correct. they havent said they didnt make any profit but they have
implied to the people that they might not be able to survive without all the
free labor.

they do imply that in order for people to "get" the most from their forum
or other program that they need to volunteer.

do u have any idea how much they were paying for their offices in the
world trade center?

if not maybe u know or we can find out how much space they leased
and how much it cost them per square foot to be there. the amount
of money should be quite large.

and my point is if they manage their gads with their desire to get them
to work for free and then are paying high rental costs to be in
such a fine area then that itself would tell us about what landmark is,
would u agree ?

Hi Patrick,

I believe landmark would collapse if it were not for the free labour but landmark would never imply anything like that. Landmark sticks to the view that assisting is a way for volunteers to get more education at no cost (Other then time) to themselves. Personally I think this is crap, landmark does use the volunteers and it saves them a stack of money.

As for landmark having offices in world trade centre. I have no way of finding out what rent they were paying, i do remember once talking to one of the staff there and the new york office was always running at a loss because of where they were located. I imagine centres that make the money were covering the loss.

Landmark could have rented cheaper offices but they wanted to be in what they considered a key spot.

As for what kind of company landmark is... it is a corporation that uses people to make money for the few at the top and the forum leaders who get well! Its not a company I admire!

Thanks, everybody for your thoughtful insight .. Anyway, seems like we've squared things away .. There have been so many tangible improvements in her life since taking the Forum that I can't discount that LE might beneficial for some people .. However, I don't think she gives herself enough credit. I just told her to be aware of the criticisms and potential pitfalls, to keep thinking critically, and not to get too wrapped up in the Landmark lifestyle (i.e. recruiting, excessive volunteering, etc.)

Anyway, she's gonna take a break for a couple of months before taking the SELP.. What exactly goes on in this class? From what I understand it is a weekly seminar over three months and involves putting together some type of community service project ... If she's come through the Forum, lecture series and Advanced Class unscathed (she's still a great gal!), do I have much to worry about here?

Later!

Quote
The_Trooper
If she's come through the Forum, lecture series and Advanced Class unscathed (she's still a great gal!), do I have much to worry about here?

Later!

Get her out of there before it's too late. Or join her. But it's one or the other. Remember. And try to find out why so many people describe landmark as a cult.

Here are a few quotes from Margaret T. Singer that might help you appreciate better what it leads to:

"To increase member's recruiting potential, typically cults train members to smile, appear happy, be outgoing, and give attention to newcomers."

"In a closed system of logic, criticism or complaints are handled by showing the subject that he or she is defective, not the organization".


I recommend you read her book.

Good luck

MD

My GF got this from her LEC coach:

"Dr. Margaret Singer, a well-known cult expert in the United States and author of the book “Cults in our Midst”, stated in writing in May, 1997 that “I do not believe that either Landmark Education or The Landmark Forum is a cult or sect or meets the criteria of a cult or sect.”

I dunno the context of this ..

Anyway, I'm not going to take the Forum .. and if I did, I'd be ready to do battle with the FL.. I am gonna stick it out with this girl for now in the hope that she won't get sucked into the abyss..

The_Trooper:

Margaret Singer was sued over her book "Cults in Our Midst" by Landmark.

The case was settled out of court.

She wrote the statement quoted, but had never said that Landmark was a "cult."

Her stated opinion was that Landmark hurt people through its training and was potentially unsafe.

She never retracted that opinion, which was her actual point.

Landmark requested the statement you quote to drop their suit, which Dr. Singer found no problem with, since she had never stated otherwise.

And I thought you guys were just a bunch of cynical party-poopers unwilling to admit that The Forum and other courses can really help people turn their lives around.. Well, anyway, I gave it my all, but it turns out that she decided she would be "out of integrity" to continue dating me while she has developed some feelings for a guy she has met at Landmark.

Defintiely bummed, as I really put in a lot of effort to make this work, but a lesson learned.