Instead of engaging in infantile personal assault, are you able to refute that citation, shakti?

This board is about CULT damage to the individual human being's ability to think clearly.

Attacking people with mockery without even attempting a logical or factual refutation of their statements is an example of how cult-damaged minds work. Such minds have lost the ability to examine statements and think about them. Such minds can only react personally to the speakers, and cannot attack the ideas with critical thinking but can attack the speakers with insults.

Shakti, please stop disrupting threads that are about cult damage with your obvious hatred of Catholics in general.

Your disdain for Catholics is not relevant to a discussion of cults that damage Catholic communities. It makes as much sense as if you decided to go over to the "Australian Cult" discussion and start attacking them for being Australian or attacking their political system, instead of allowing them to talk about a cult that is damaging some of their people and their communities.

Sorry, DSM, missed your reply, or would have gotten back to you earlier.

Bottom line: any book that is claiming SAUL ALINSKY is the main problem of the Catholic Church rather than its Hitler Youth pope, its corrupt Vatican bank with its ties to mafiosi, and it's virtual army of boy-buggerers is simply not going to be credible. If that is YOUR position, as well, then YOU are simply not credible either.

Saul Alinsky has become a great bogeyman of the modern American right. It's an anti-Obama political hatchet job:

Alinsky= communist
Alinsky= community organizer
Obama=community organizer as well
Obama= communist

Shakti, this is not about me. It is not about you. It not about saul alinski or adolf hitler.

It is about destructive cults inside the
Catholic Church.

PLEASE STOP POSTING OFF-TOPIC ATTACKS ON ME OR ON WHAT YOU IMAGINE MY POLITICS TO BE.

THERE IS NO DISCUSSION OF ALINKSKY, OBAMA, ETC IN THIS TOPIC.

dsm,
Shakti is not attacking you personally, she is attacking your position--which is untenable to any thinking, compassionate person not in thrall to the wealth and power of the catholic church.

The person who is unable to distinguish between personal attacks based on religious loyalties or hatreds and a frank discussion of the problems inherent in any particular system of belief is you yourself. Cults peculiar to the catholic church cannot be considered in isolation from the authoritarian belief system that spawned them, feeds off them as long as they are profitable and to which fold you are attempting to return them.

You demonstrate this every time someone disagrees with you--for disagreement with your point of view earns an immediate label of troll and you fall back into the 'persecuted catholic victim' role.
You are trying to demonise anybody who points out the flaws in your argument---standard operating procedure for the catholic priests I remember who would beat belief into any child who dared to raise a question.
Standard operating procedure also for most cults today although the tactics have become considerably more subtle.

It is not possible to discuss anything with you when you resort to such tactics at the first questioning of your agenda.

I no longer believe that you have any interest in discussion at all--of catholic cults or any other type of cult activity.
You are on this board to gain attention by creating drama centred on yourself, you have certainly spread a wide enough net with your many new threads--which you erroneously insist you will be 'running.'
The game is up dsm--get your own house in order before demonising others so readily.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2010 04:25PM by Stoic.

Quote
dsm
THERE IS NO DISCUSSION OF ALINKSKY, OBAMA, ETC IN THIS TOPIC.

Hey, it was YOU who brought this quote into the thread, not me! You apparently think you can quote anything you want, then not have it discussed ON A DISCUSSION BOARD?!!! Are you kidding?

"Is it only the Charismatic and communal that has connections to Father Scanlon? Not really. For instance, one of Father Scanlon’s strongest political allies just happened (s?) to be a man named Dick Prosser. Prosser was a top aide to Saul Alinsky…"The Main Man" who is responsible for most of the problems within the Catholic Church even today…(Call to Action – Detroit in the turbulent ‘60’s) Alinsky acknowledged Lucifer as their leader in the book RULES FOR RADICALS".

The issue in that article is the set of cult tactics that Scanlon used and that were traced by others, which have nothing to do with the political view of Alinsky and Obanma.

I think you know very well that in any long article many things may be mentioned, but the topic of the thread is the CULT problem. There are cults on both right and left, politically, and what distinguishes them is not their political philosophy but their methods. Cult methods tend to be almost identical, regardless of their political philosophy.

The main ingredient of "cult" is "deception" and it becoms a destructive cult when the deception is re-inforced with intimidation of some type. If Alinsky is relevant at all to this discussion, it is only in regards to the fact he is not catholic and as far as I know has always considered himself to be against the religious aspects of Catholicism even though he has been closely involved with Catholic social action groups. The fact is, Alinsky never lied about what he was doing or wanted to do. He is a writer, thinker, and speaker. So the relevance is not Alinsky but manner in which he is being used.

Those who put his ideas into action have choices about the methods they use.

Something to consider here is that many of the cult activities described in that article are "right-wing". That is the expereince in the parishes. Moderate parishioners face this cult activity even if they try to avoid openly right-wing groups. The cult activists coming out of Steubenville have been hearkening back to a bizarre and very right-wing mix of old testament patriarchy and modern demon-chasing charismatics, a dangerous combination at best.

The fact that someone who is responsible for the production of these little right-wing cults is also apparently an ally of leftwingers like Alinsky is an interesting side-note. Is Scanlon using Alinsky as a stalking horse, or is he actually unaware of the right-wing activity under his nose?

Call-To-Action has been mostly a left-wing feminist group that uses blackmail and incredible harassment against heterosexual women in the Church, but the Steubenville cults are so extremely pro-life that they are not even distinguishing between medically necessary abortions for nonviable foetusses and elective abortions, and some of those cultists are even trying to have abstinence-based contraceptive practices disapproved.

The Franciscans are in the middle of that entire mess. Most people outside the Catholic church think of priests as a kind of monolithic group, but in fact there are many different kinds of priests who have different teaching and missionary profiles. Some of these groups are detached from the daily life of the secular world but others are right in it. There is more than one Franciscan group, and they include both priests and nuns.

Some will deliberately undermine parishes in which they work. They have split loyalties, answering partly to the local bishop and partly to their order. The lay organizations include "third order" devotees who may be involved in a lot of prayer and introspection or who may be involved in social action. The same order can have both left- and right-wing things going on, and if someone in the hierarchy is siccing them on each other, then that is cult leadership, because the members don't know what they actually have been re ruited to do and in some cases they may have been subjected to mind-control or thought-stopping tactics to disable their critical faculties.

I seen this thread and I decided to read the two pages of posting thus far.
DSM you bring up a good point regarding false teachers and the false teaching that have infiltrated the catholic church.
The subject of false teachers is addressed extensively in the New Testament.
Jesus address this subject in Matthew 7

Quote
13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. A Tree and Its Fruit 15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. 21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

and in Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect—if that were possible.

Also see Acts 13:6
They traveled through the whole island until they came to Paphos. There they met a Jewish sorcerer and false prophet named Bar-Jesus,
and in 2 Corinthians chapter 11, Galatians and the book of Jude, 1 Timothy, and 2nd Peter along with the first 3 chapters of Revelation

Historically the Christian church has had to deal with several false teachings along with mystical pagan practices and traditional Jewish traditions that were present during the days of Jesus. From the early days up to the 1500's there were many illiterate people and copies of the bible were mostly in Latin and very scarce, so for the average person did not have the opportunity to read the word of God.
Going back to the 1500's it was Martin Luther who through his studies of the Bible and teaching came up with his 95 issues he believed the Catholic religion contradicted with the Holy Bible.

Here is his 95 theses
[www.wretchedradio.com]

Here is a synopsis of his history
[www.reformation.org]

I am not intrerested in fighting the Reformation, but I am interested in deceptive cults today. I know that many people do not accept the Catholic Church. The heresy that is intrinsic to Lutheran teachings is for a religious debate, not for a cult discussion.

The cults we are talking about in Rick Ross forums are not dependent on Bible theology. They are dependent on deliberate deception by human beings who claim to be one thing when they are another. Thus, you are not presenting a "cult" by arguing the old theological points of Luther vs the Church. BUT if you joined the Catholic Church, calling yourself Catholic to other Catholics, while having people go to meetings at your house to learn the secret theology of Martin Luther and you also started doing nasty underhanded things to break up their families and get them to donate to your little house-church, all the while passing yourself off as a regular Catholic and pretending you never heard of Martin Luther, then THAT would be a cult and you would be a cult-leader, having nothing at all to do with whether or not Martin Luther or the Catholic Church were right or wrong.

Cults are not defined as "non-biblical religious groups". They are defined as groups using tactics of deliberate and orchestrated deception, isolation, and intimidation to gain and keep their recruits and they keep their recruits in a mental state of impaired thinking and unreasonable obedience.

I am concerned with several cults whose activities within the Catholic Church match activities within other denominations. I am focussing on the problem within the Catholic Church because that is where I am and I can recognize and share with other Catholics the special tactics these groups use when they invade a Catholic parish. The same group invading a Lutheran congregation will use similar methods, but adjusted to the different theology and governing structure that is found inside Lutheran groups.

This is not about theology. It is about destructive cult tactics that have nothing at all to do with theology.

To whom it may concern:

dsm has been banned from this message board.

Rick Ross
www.culteducation.com