I meant Mr. Tiller...I thought that I corrected that...sorry:)


I am flawed...oh NO!

Shane, thanks for sharing. It looks like you had more sense and discernment than I had and for this I am grateful. It is sooo strongly taught that we need to be "strategic" in our relationships. So much scripture was abused to have us think that we need to throw out all relationships unless they are "PURPOSEFUL" and any relationship that participated in how JACKED UP you became, are not purposeful and we needed to RID ourselves of them. Well....this would include all your family and friends and maybe even your current place of business. I am telling you all today, that is sick. What a perfect way to get people to be "inclusive" in relationships and to control the outside world. I really thought I was doing the right thing by "distancing" myself form these people. But in the end like Matt said, "At the end of the day you find out who will stick around when the poo hits the fan… and it aint the leadership of RLC that told me that they were loyal, that they had true commitment, that our relationships were covenant and everlasting in the sight of God." The few real friends I met at RLC, through all the thick and thin, are still and have always been there. Matt and I have had some rough run ins at times, but in the end, we are still here. My family is still here and loving. My wife and children still love me and believe in me. I am telling you this, I almost allowed RLC to destroy everything that I knew to be good because the lie is that everything that I know is good is not from God, but from the enemy. I wish, no I pray right now that others will be open and willing to see the truth of this. My daughter is one who I hope and pray sees all of this. She is so talented and passionate for God, but it seems that more coldness and bitterness grows in her the longer she stays at RLC. I believe she will SOAR and become a real success if she pulls away from this dangerous way of things. She is made for so much more.

You know... the only people who called me from RLC , are Laura Fiest, Michael Ruiz, Brandon Miller. I am thankful that they never mentioned anything about my leaving because it really is not about that. It is about who I am today and who I am becoming for tomorrow.

Go back and re-read my poasings I have shared my testimonies and my testimonies match up with other testimonies posted here. all of these testimonies confirm that there are unholy teachings and ritualistic practices here at Radiant Life Church.

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Abused
ClayPot
You posted this

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“I ask one and all to truly ask this question: Is participation in this thread pleasing to The Father?”

Yes it is! Or would you rather have everyone keep in silence so that the church can continue to spiritually abuse the people?
or is this the reason that leadership (Tony Cunningham & Greg Huth) has discouraged followers from listing to KFIA and the FISH radio stations, specifically the “Bible Answer man" show?

Absolutely! Yes!
Have you not ever read that we are commanded to test all things?
1 John 4:1
“Dear friends, do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit. You must test them to see if the spirit they have comes from God. For there are many false prophets in the world.”
In Revelations Jesus commends the Ephesus church “You have examined the claims of those who say they are apostles but are not. You have discovered they are liars. You have patiently suffered for me without quitting.”

So yes I am being obedient to the word of God and I am testing the things that are being taught at Radiant Life Church.
I have asked for an appointment to meet with Pastor Tony two different times and I have been denied both times. If Pastor Tony is not willing to sit down and discuss the false teachings and discuss a process of reconciliation. I will not sit back and watch other people and friends get on board this buss that has no breaks and has faulty steering. I will scream at the top of my voice GET OFF THE BUSS!!!!!!!! becuse Tony is driving it down a very steep hill!!!

with over 12450 views on this forum alone, the word is getting out! The testimonies are beggining to flood the pages of this forum and others on the internet. People are identifying with others testimonies and connecting the patterns of abuse and manipulation.

a year ago I was really frustrated with the silent treetment I was getting from Tony and that glazed look Greg gets when he confronted with the truth and does not know how to respond to a spiritual foundational question that differes from Tonys teachings.

It was about a year ago Tony came over to our house and appoligized to my wife and I, but would not discuss any of the issues I had tabeled in a letter I gave to both Greg and Tony. He asked if he could be canded in our house? so we said yes.... he asked for a bowl then filled it up with water asked for a towel and my wife got him a fresh towel. He then broght it over to my wife and proceded to wash her feet asking for forgiveness my wife was emotionaly undone. He then asked me to revove my shoes and he washed my feet and appologized.
I thought maybe there is a change comming to RLC maybe Reconciliation has a chance to breaking out at rlc. So I made a post that read "what would it look like if a church repented....?"
go back and re-read what I have posted.

Now fast forward to today...
has RLC changed? have they (the leadership i.e. Tony) gone back the the broken hearted that were abused and taken advantage of? No No No
infact the same false teachings continue although they have gone a bit underground somethings are not in your face like Spiritual Parenting but it is still happening and lives are being distroyed because of it. .
So Tony may have come over to my house and tried to emotionaly gain our approuval by washing our feet but when he has done nothing to right the wrongs that have abused so many people.

I'm sorry!
My friends it is time to yell from the roof top!!!
CULT!!!
FALSE TEACHER!!!
FALSE APPOSTLE!!!
FALSE PROPHET!!!
FALSE PASTOR!!!

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Deja Vu
the only people who called me from RLC , are Laura Fiest, Michael Ruiz, Brandon Miller. I am thankful that they never mentioned anything about my leaving because it really is not about that. It is about who I am today and who I am becoming for tomorrow.

Watch out because WAJ is back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Congratulations DejaVu! You know you were somebody there because you got 3 calls! And you got a call from one of the big cheeses! You got 3 more calls than I ever did!

And Joe, give it a break man! You are what you are and that won't change for me overnight. If you feel better trying to get the last word in, sorry but you are talking to the wrong person. The fact is this message board has taken off since your banning and Ryan and Matt coming on. Everything happens for a reason. I really don't care whether you like me, don't like me, agree with what i have to say or not.

Also, I received a very nice apology from a pastor at Radiant Life in a private message. The apology was nice and accepted. I sent a response back with some comments and really received back some spiritual bs that I did not care to hear. Got preached to from someone I would never receive as a preacher.

Anyway, I am back after taking a few days off. It is nice to see the forum progressing. Matt's stepdad, thank you for sharing your experiences. DejaVu and Ringbarer, yes in the end when all the chips fall all you have is God and your family, not the phony family you aquire at Radiant Life. I have seen genuine relationship in churches and Radiant Life never came close. Made the other churches I went to look like spiritual towers! It is funny because that is what the people at Radiant think they have but they know nor have never seen a genuine church that cares about each other. It is a put on caring at RLC for me.

Abused, Tony is a master at communicating with stupid stuff like what you describe. I would take heart change, and visible change before any stupid feet washing. You really want to apologize and do something for me then get some wipeys and you know really tend to me............... the foot washing like everything else is just symbolic and doesn't matter unless real change took place. For change to take place there has to be tangible action. Tony needs to learn how to genuinely communicate without always having to put a show on for people. He is not Jesus.

DejaVu, that whole strategic relationship thing was a bunch of bs. I know I got caught up in it for awhile and really compromised relationships with friends and family. It took me awhile to realize that the friends and family I compromised relationships with were the only ones that would be there if I needed them. While My relationship with them became somewhat conditional and on my terms with them, their relationships with me were unconditional and more Jesus like than what I was doing and being taught. Please keep in mind, I have heard Tony talk about this specifically, but it was his pastors and leaders that handed it down in discipleship and small group settings.

Anyway, that is it for now. I am glad I could come back here with such a charming attitude. On a side note, I am actually making plans to go to church with my family next Sunday. Yikes, lightining just might strike so look out.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2008 07:12AM by whatajoke.

I found this article that I would like to share. This was scary for me as I identified it with Radiant Life in almost everything the author is talking about. I cannot vouch for the source but will tell you that it was taken off a site that was discussing Christianity and Spiritual Abuse. Please take the time to read it. The article has biblical references. Please not that these are not my references but are contained as part of the article. I am not trying to preach but am providing the article. Hopefully, It can help some of the people that are reading this site but fear posting or maybe are on the fence. Maybe even the leadership and pastors that are coming on here to read can understand better the damage they have caused.



Spiritual Abuse
by David Henke

Founding Date: Spiritual abuse is as old as false religion itself. While the practice is old, the term "spiritual abuse" may have been coined first by Jeff VanVonderen.

Organizational Structure: Can occur under virtually any organizational structure, but "top down" hierarchical structures are especially well suited to systemic spiritual abuse.

DEFINED
Spiritual abuse is the misuse of a position of power, leadership, or influence to further the selfish interests of someone other than the individual who needs help. Sometimes abuse arises out of a doctrinal position. At other times it occurs because of legitimate personal needs of a leader that are being met by illegitimate means. Spiritually abusive religious systems are sometimes described as legalistic, mind controlling, religiously addictive, and authoritarian.

COMMON CHARACTERISTICS
#1) Authoritarian
The most distinctive characteristic of a spiritually abusive religious system, or leader, is the over-emphasis on authority. Because a group claims to have been established by God Himself the leaders in this system claim the right to command their followers.

This authority supposedly comes from the position they occupy. In Matthew 23:1-2 Jesus said the Scribes and Pharisees "sit in Moses' seat," a position of spiritual authority. Many names are used but in the abusive system this is a position of power, not moral authority. The assumption is that God operates among His people through a hierarchy, or "chain of command." In this abusive system unconditional submission is often called a "covering," or "umbrella of protection" which will provide some spiritual blessing to those who fully submit. Followers may be told that God will bless their submission even if the leadship is wrong. It is not their place to judge or correct the leadership - God will see to that.

#2) Image Conscious
The abusive religious system is scrupulous to maintain an image of righteousness. The organization's history is often misrepresented in the effort to demonstrate the organization's special relationship to God. The mistaken judgements and character flaws of its leaders are denied or covered up in order to validate their authority. Impossibly high legalistic standards of thought and behavior may be imposed on the members. Their failure to live up to these standards is a constant reminder of the follower's inferiority to his leaders, and the necessity of submission to them. Abusive religion is, at heart, legalism.

Abusive religion is also paranoid. Because the truth about the abusive religious system would be quickly rejected if recognized, outsiders are shown only a positive image of the group. This is rationalized by assuming that the religion would not be understood by "worldly" people; therefore they have no right to know. This attitude leads to members being secretive about some doctrines and the inner policies and proceedures of the group. Leaders, especially, will keep secrets from their members. This secrecy is rooted in a basic distrust of others because the belief system is false and can not stand scrutiny.

#3) Suppresses Criticism
Because the religious system is not based on the truth it cannot allow questions, dissent, or open discussions about issues. The person who dissents becomes the problem rather than the issue he raised. The truth about any issue is settled and handed down from the top of the hierarchy. Questioning anything is considered a challenge to authority. Thinking for oneself is suppressed by pointing out that it leads to doubts. This is portrayed as unbelief in God and His anointed leaders. Thus the follower controls his own thoughts by fear of doubting God.

#4) Perfectionistic
A most natural assumption is that a person does not get something for nothing. Apart from the express declarations of salvation by grace through faith God has given in the scriptures, it would be natural to think that one must earn salvation, or at least work to keep it. Thus, in abusive religions all blessings come through performance of spiritual requirements. Failure is strongly condemned so there is only one alternative, perfection. So long as he thinks he is succeeding in his observation of the rules, the follower typically exhibits pride, elitism, and arrogance. However, when reality and failure eventually set in, the result is the person experiences spiritual burnout, or even shipwreck of his faith. Those who fail in their efforts are labeled as apostates, weak, or some other such term so that they can be discarded by the system.

#5) Unbalanced
Abusive religions must distinguish themselves from all other religions so they can claim to be distinctive and therefore special to God. This is usually done by majoring on minor issues such as prophecy, carrying biblical law to extremes, or using strange methods of biblical interpretation. The imbalanced spiritual hobby-horse thus produced represents unique knowledge or practices which seem to validate the group's claim to special status with God.

BIBLICAL RESPONSE
Examples of spiritual abuse are found throughout the Bible. God describes (and condemns) the "shepherds of Israel" who feed themselves rather than the flock, who do not heal those who are hurting, or seek to bring back those who were driven away but rather discard them, ruling with force and cruelty (Ezekiel 34:1-10). Jesus reacted with anger against the thievery of the money changers in the Temple as they misused God's people for selfish reasons (Matthew 21:12-13; Mark 11:15-18; Luke 19:45-47; John 2:13-16). He was angry at those more concerned with rules and regulations than with human suffering (Mark 3:1-5). In Matthew 23, Jesus describes the abusive spiritual leader in great detail. In John 9 the Pharisees "cast out" the man born blind simply because the truth he told about his healing exposed their own corruption. In Acts 7:51-56, Stephen called the Jewish leaders to account over their spiritual abuse. His testimony of Christ vindicated Jesus, whom they had abused, and condemned them. The legalistic Jews were so angry they stoned Stephen to death. In Galatians Paul addressed a performance based Christianity which leads to the abuse of legalism. There are many more such examples.

As God in human flesh, Jesus had legitimate spiritual authority. But He did not exercise it to gain power for Himself, or to abuse and control others with rules and regulations. He said, "Come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest" (Matt. 11:28). The Greek word for "heavy laden" is phortizo which means here "to overburden with ceremony (or spiritual anxiety)" (Strong's Concordance #5412). Jesus gave a balanced perspective on positional authority when he said, "But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren" (Matthew 23:8). He gave another key to discernment when He taught, "He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory..." (John 7:18a).

Jesus was not "image conscious." He was willing to associate with wine drinkers, cheating tax collectors and even prostitutes. He accused the legalistic Pharisees of "teaching for doctrine the commandments of men" (Matthew 15:9) and likened their showy, hypocritical outward rightousness to "whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness" (Matthew 23:27).

Neither was He paranoid. His ministry was conspicuously open to the public. When He was on trial (John 18) He was asked about His teachings and His reply was, "Why askest thou me?" Jesus pointed out that He always taught in public, and never in secret, so why not ask His disciples. He had nothing to hide.

Jesus did not fear to criticize the religious leaders or their faulty doctrines (e.g. Matthew 15:1-9; 23:1-39, etc.). And when confronted with criticism or with treacherous questions designed to discredit Him, His response was never to simply demand silence or only positive recognition from His accusers. Rather, He gave answers - scriptural and reasonable answers - to their objections (e.g. Luke 7:36-47; Matthew 19:3-9).

Jesus upheld the high standard of the Law, yet He clearly placed the legitimate needs of people before any rules or regulations (Matthew 12:1-13; Mark 2:23-3:5). The scriptures make it clear that no one will cease to sin in this life (Ecclesiastes 7:20; 1 John 1:8). Jesus made it plain, however, that one can know in this life that one has eternal life (John 5:24; 6:37-40), a theme developed by Paul throughout his epistles, and by John (1 John 5:10-13).

The Pharisees, quintessential spiritually abusive leaders, were quite unbalanced in their perception of what mattered most to God. Jesus said they, "...pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, - judgment, mercy, and faith...." (Matthew 23:23).

EFFECTS OF SPIRITUAL ABUSE
Spiritual abuse has a devastating effect on people. A very high level of trust is often placed in spiritual leaders. It is, and ought to be, expected that the trust will be honored and guarded. When such trust is violated the wound is very deep. Sometimes the wound is so deep that the wounded person cannot trust even a legitimate spiritual authority again.

An analogous situation exists with the victims of incest. The emotional and psychological symptoms exhibited by victims of incest parallel those of spiritual abuse to a remarkable degree. The main symptom is the inability to relate normally to people who represent the source of their emotional injury.

Besides an unhealthy fear of, and disillusionment with, spiritual authorities, the spiritually abused person may find it difficult to trust even God. "How could (or why did) He let this happen to me?" Anger is also deeply felt. Anger itself is not always wrong - God Himself expresses anger at such spiritual abuse (see Biblical Response, above). However, even legitimate anger, if not properly channeled and dealt with, can degenerate into bitterness and cynicism toward everything spiritual.

RECOVERY FROM SPIRITUAL ABUSE
Healthy recovery from spiritual abuse must begin with understanding what has happened and how. A victim usually thinks he is the only one experiencing these problems. Just being able to give a name to the problem is important. There are many books on the subject (see Resources, below) that will be helpful in learning about spiritual abuse and recovery.

Afterward the abused person must learn the true nature of God's grace, love and forgiveness. This is the foundation for being able to eventually forgive the abuser. Being able to share the experience and what has been learned so as to minister to someone else's need is also very important. This could be done in a support group made up of people with a similar experience who can share the healing love of Christ.

Finally, a lot of time must be allowed for full recovery.

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pray4them
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN, I attended RLC back in 04 for approximately 9 months. Me and my wife enjoyed the teaching and the worship on Sunday mornings. Not long after going there we saw our daughter in law with some new clothes and jewelry and were told that Tony had purchased it for her that she was now his spiritual daughter. We were confusd by this and asked to meet with Tony so he could explain this to us.He streched some scripture and then told us about a family members dad and his shortcomings and why he needed a spiritual father. The family member is Brandon Miller who is my nephew. I found it disturbing that Tony would break this confidence and share what should be kept private between them.Not long after this I started attending a small group at Greg Huths home in which we heard a teaching all about following Tony as the Spiritual Leader and started asking questions during the teaching which were never at plantation coffee to discuss what I considered to be an abortion of scripture.Not once was the name of Jesus ever brought up during the teaching or my meeting with Greg.We left right after that and never looked back.

I remember that after noon at Gregs house but I am so glad that you started asking questions because his flipint answers did not answere the questions you were asking. Greg became angey and impatient...after you left he played it off as though you just were not spiritualy mature enough to gleen the deeper spiritual meanings.
Dialogue and questions are not encourage at radiant life because it is viewed as being disrespectful to the authority. Question authority? RLC teaches that is dispespectful. People at rlc are taught that they must be submitted to the spiritual authority from God? to be properly covered by Gods spirit. I think not! The spiritual authority at rlc is not from God! it is self-congured and manipulated!

Pray4them thank you for following hour heart and asking thoes questions because you helped me see the light.

WAJ-
quote from Rick Ross:
"Such groups are also spiritual elitists, Enroth said. They use arrogant or high-minded terms to describe themselves and often have disparaging descriptions for other churches, he said.

“They present themselves as the model Christian church or the model Christian organization...and say they provide unparalleled fellowship and superior spirituality,” Enroth said.

In addition, such groups are usually paranoid and perceive any criticism as persecution, Enroth said. They paint people who leave as defectors and say attacks against them are ultimately the work of Satan.

“By describing criticism as slander, they can almost be shielded from criticism,” Enroth said.

Enroth believes the number of spiritually abusive groups is growing due to a spike in the number of independent churches in evangelical and fundamentalist circles. People like them because they are less formal and less hierarchical than traditional churches, he said.

But with that independence also comes the potential for trouble, he said.

“They are, in a sense, spiritual Lone Rangers,” Enroth said. “That’s where the potential for sliding off the cliff comes into play.”


I wanted to share a perspective. I have struggled with what slander is and what gossip is for a very long time. I always felt that if something is shared because of truth and it is to warn others from being hurt by what is experienced, than it is not slander or gossip even if a name is used. This above quote that WAJ posted hit the nail on the head. If any of you, like WAJ said about me in regards to certain practices were true and they shared it, I have no problem with it. It is called accountability. It needs to be brought out in the open because Gods word says, " he who conceals his sin does not prosper." Proverbs 28:13. It does the body no good to keep a sinful matter concealed.

However...... I believe if we share out of malicious intent with only partial truth in order to bring someone down in order to justify our own wounds, than I believe it can be called slander. I will tell you this, if slander is what people at RLC say it is, which is simply using anyones name without them present or without their consent, than I guess the Apostle Paul was a huge gossip and slanderer. And you all know he wasn't. See, Apostle Paul warned the church many times about certain people who were dangerous and called them out by name and warned the church. EX: 2Timothy 4:9-15. Please read it for yourself. anyhow, I just wanted to let people know that it is OK to sahre your stories and testimonies. These stories include names of real people. However, be on gaurd for sharing out of ignorance and not truth. WE NEED TO KEEP THIS FORUM INTEGREOUS. I got to go, but will share a few thoughts later.

Deja Vu

you just discribed Tony and his inter circle.

I just wanted to share some observations that I have been running over in my head.

A couple of years back I was in a Brigades Leadership meeting and Brandon was teaching a new concept. It was called 80/20. Basically spend 80% of your time with people who are actually receiving what you are saying and 20% of your time with people who are less inclined to. Okay I understand, the casting your pearls before swine concept. But the teaching was talking about the people in the church as well as outsiders. I think back on this now, mostly because it is something that stuck and is still implemented at the church, just taught differently. To me this is a business practice. We are dealing with peoples souls here, not some business merger with a large company. Anyways, I feel that it taught people to judge and condemn people before they were even given a chance to grow. I don’t believe God handles his people that way, although it is easier for him to manage because he is GOD! However we are to strive to be like him. Love others and think of other more highly than ourselves. Who are we to judge who is worthy of our time. It is not our time, and it is not our souls we are dealing with!
Again I welcome any thoughts on this, maybe an aspect that I have missed.

Another thing that I have been running through in my mind is this:

I was reading through some previous posts and was reading some of SOMITES postings, and I was bothered by a lot of what I was reading. Here is what I was thinking about the most. Somite mentioned that people hurt people. It is a common occurrence. I agree with this. He mentioned being hurt by a spouse, or a boss, etc. Would we leave our spouse, would we quit our job? I think that this is a very valid point. However, this is my take on this whole idea. If your spouse cheated on you, and this ripped your family apart, then repented. Would you forgive them?? Yeah sure I believe that I could. What if they continued to cheat on you after they repented and said they would never do it again??? What if all their actions proved that they were indifferent to you and your feelings. I would definitely say, that I would not trust that person and not want anything more to do with them.
What if your boss made decisions that compromised your faith and values, what if their decisions ripped your family apart. Would you stay at your job or would you quit?? Hopefully you would quit!

Well this is what the people on this forum have experienced with RLC. My family has taken a hit. There is a member of our family that is not as close as she used to be. I personally ran with some of the teaching and in turn hurt people. Other people in this forum have been negatively affected too.

I also had great times and grew a lot in the beginning of my attendance at that church. So before I left I weighed the good with the bad. The bad won the test and I left. I should say God finally released me.

If you feel that by attending RLC you are growing in Love with the Lord and you are truly loving people the way God wants you. Then stay, but know that the people on this board are not just complaining about tiny little happenings. It is real it. It has affected our lives. Because we know and love the people at RLC, we do not want them to experience the same corruption that we ourselves have. Hopefully any of our brothers and sisters in Christ would do the same if they were in our position.