I've been following this forum for a little over a year now and have posted a bit also.
One thing that is very real to me is Reconciliation.

This is central and foundational to Christianity, if you don't believe so then you would have to deny the whole reason God sent his son Jesus to die on the cross for us to reconcile us back to him.

I've been pondering this for some time now so thought I'd post my thoughts for what ever their worth, a lot of you on here know who I am and the life I attempt to live, you decide what weight they hold.

The church needs to come to maturity and realize this is key for the House of God, as God will start his judgment there first. For those of you who post and those of you who read, and try to deny this truth, I ask you to go back to the simplicity of the cross where the ground is level for us all and remember this powerful and simple truth. To not reconcile with a brother or a sister who may be seeking this is totally anti- God.

While talking to a pastor friend of mine they stated " we don't even believe what we preach" say what you want but when the rubber hits the road, it is what we do..

I'll start with the "man in the mirror" or in my case the woman, will you?

Could you clarify a bit, oncevoice?

What do you mean when you speak of those who are seeking? Seeking whom or what? If they are seeking Christ and His truth, then I can do them no better service than to cling to the Jesus of the Bible and His teachings and the teachings of His true apostles. I cannot--especially for the sake of those who are seeking--support or promote false teachers and their lies by pretending what they are doing is OK with me, because it is not!

We (Christians) can/should never be reconciled to lies and those who insist on preaching them. If you are asking folks on here to "kiss and make up" with false teachers, you are asking us to do an unbiblical thing. Our "beef" is not personal (that the people have offended us personally), but that these false teachers pervert the Gospel of Christ and teach others to do the same.

I can never be reconciled to accepting or supporting lies about who God is--His person, work, and Word.

But if you mean something else by reconciliation, onevoice, please explain.

Thanks.

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onevoice
I've been following this forum for a little over a year now and have posted a bit also.
One thing that is very real to me is Reconciliation.

This is central and foundational to Christianity, if you don't believe so then you would have to deny the whole reason God sent his son Jesus to die on the cross for us to reconcile us back to him.

I've been pondering this for some time now so thought I'd post my thoughts for what ever their worth, a lot of you on here know who I am and the life I attempt to live, you decide what weight they hold.

The church needs to come to maturity and realize this is key for the House of God, as God will start his judgment there first. For those of you who post and those of you who read, and try to deny this truth, I ask you to go back to the simplicity of the cross where the ground is level for us all and remember this powerful and simple truth. To not reconcile with a brother or a sister who may be seeking this is totally anti- God.

While talking to a pastor friend of mine they stated " we don't even believe what we preach" say what you want but when the rubber hits the road, it is what we do..

I'll start with the "man in the mirror" or in my case the woman, will you?

Learning point,
In clarification, I am talking about brothers and sisters who seek truth. I am not suggesting in any matter that people on this forum just kiss and make up and do not dismiss the spiritual abuse that has taken place from leadership by any means. It was more geared toward leadership as I know they frequent this forum often, to check their hearts as we should and I hope are still in prayer for the body.. I think you would agree learning point "the church as a whole is a long way off from what God intended for his bride" based off the circumstances that are now in play in just a small fraction from tp, not to mention all over the body. In closing I hope I clarified for you, God loves all the same, this is true, as he died for all, no man better than another, if we could all "get that" wouldn't you agree the body would be in a much better place than current situation?

Thanks for clarifying, onevoice. I just had a few thoughts in response.

It would be nice if that one-big-happy-family church could exist on this earth, but the ideal you are speaking of has never existed, not even in the early church. Indeed, 1 John (if you haven't read 1 John lately, I highly recommend it) makes distinctions that show that the church will always need to be on guard, rejecting what is darkness and clinging to what is light...and that the darkness will always be seeking to encroach on the light.

Scripture also says, "Narrow is the way, and few there be that find it." That is a very sobering truth to me. In light of it, I need to always ask God to examine me, and to never presume everything that comes from my own heart and mind, nor from the pulpit, is OK. And when lies are being preached, I am responsible to speak up and give a warning. And, so, the bottom line is that Scripture makes it clear that there aren't going to be a lot of people loving God and His truth in this world.

I don't think any of us on the forum has ever denied that God's love is available to all equally. God hates wickedness, though--whether it's in my life or anyone else's. We are called to hate wickedness too. There is not one person at Turning Point whom I hate. But I do despise the false prosperity gospel and the Kingdom Now/Manifest Sons of God lies that are promoted and believed there. Jesus paid too dearly for us to sit back and do nothing when His grace gift of abundant, eternal life is perverted into a money-making scheme.

As long as lies prevail at Turning Point, no unity is possible, because true unity is unity around the Truth--who is Christ, in whose love we find our source of love. Lies, on the contrary, Jesus said, are Satan's native language, and the devil is not only a liar, but also a murderer, full of hatred.

"Veneers" of "love" are just that. But true love speaks the truth, insists on it, and hopes and prays and longs for it to prevail. Playing "nice people" around a pack of lies is not loving.

My husband and I have been away from TPCWOC for a little over a year now. This is what I have discovered.

You cannot judge all clergy according to TPCWOC. There are those shepherds who fulfill their duties to Jesus and Father God not because they have to but because it is their joy to be Jesus hands and feet and to do his work.

When you have a loved one in the hospital with a terminal illness, you can pick up a phone and ask for the pastor to come. And even if that pastor is not your loved one's pastor, they will show up to pray with the family and provide encouragement for the dying and those who are loosing someone they love.

You can belong to a small church and still do things to help others and your community. Its okay to do the little things to help others which do not bring media and public recognition.

The Lord sent you to and brought you out of TPCWOC for a reason. Listen for God's still small voice to explain. Do not fear going to church or embracing a new pastor. Be the child of God that you were always meant to be.

Praise God for all that he has taught me in the past year. Praise God for the church home the Lord lead us to after we left TPCWOC.

D of D

Jeff(The Rock)Barnes has just finished his series on Real (phony) Relationships. Jeffery tells you not to fall into the people pleasing trap, power trap, performance trap, pain and pleasure trap. If you attend TPCWOC you are all ready in the trap. TPCWOC is a performance based church and a leader pleasing church driven by power hungry leaders that teach false doctrines. The leaders sit in the front row to be noticed and shake their heads in agreement with whatever the speakers say. Jeffs latest sermon was on Love. Jeff is a expert in putting on love. Just don't say anything negative or divisive about all the false teaching and the cult tactics that the leadership have used. Love, Love, Love forget about Truth of Gods Word at TPCWOC. After all it's just trivial doctrine issues according to Jeff. I wouldn't be on here if it were JUST trivial doctrine issues. By the way, where is Jeff Barnes spiritual father false Apostle Mike Villamor been hiding?

I am totaly convinced that mike villamor has lied so much he is totally lost in his delusion, He now believes that all his thoughts are Gods thoughts, he is the one man whos ways are Gods ways . I now believe tha mike is not saved and hears only the voice of satan, the father of lies. I pray that he be exposed, and forced to look at himself, Heavenly Father please expose the enemy,

Noone! I would be very careful about saying who you think is or is not saved. Only God knows that. I have been so angry to the point of being suicidal over leaving and losing my church. But God showed me that I need to forgive and let Him deal with Mike and Cyndi. Daily I am so angry at them -- it consumes me. But that's not helping me, it's only hurting me and they could obviously not give a rat's ass about my pain or yours. I wonder if they are truly saved too, but that's not for me to judge. If they truly were saved, you'd think they'd hear from God a little better, listen to Him better. But then, if there is deep woundedness there and that's why Mike acts the way he does, who knows. I just don't want to judge their salvation. Their works, yes. Their salvation, no.

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UndeniablyLivid
Noone! I would be very careful about saying who you think is or is not saved. Only God knows that. I have been so angry to the point of being suicidal over leaving and losing my church. But God showed me that I need to forgive and let Him deal with Mike and Cyndi. Daily I am so angry at them -- it consumes me. But that's not helping me, it's only hurting me and they could obviously not give a rat's ass about my pain or yours. I wonder if they are truly saved too, but that's not for me to judge. If they truly were saved, you'd think they'd hear from God a little better, listen to Him better. But then, if there is deep woundedness there and that's why Mike acts the way he does, who knows. I just don't want to judge their salvation. Their works, yes. Their salvation, no.

yes your right but its a funny thing Mke spent many hours telling us who was and wasnt saved I guess I learned the art of determining salvation in others from him

You're right! I remember once he said to me, "Well you're saved and I'm saved, and that's good!" Funny thing. Since I've left TP I doubt my salvation every single day. It torments me and I'm in constant fear I'm going to die and go to hell. I beg God not to send me there. I tell him daily that I believe. It's not because I left and I'm afraid that's why I've lost my salvation. I don't have any fear over leaving that stupid church affecting my status with God. But, I don't know why I'm afraid of this all of a sudden. I've never doubted my salvation before. All I know is, since I left that church my emotions have been to hell and they're not back yet. Leaving a church has life-altering ramifications. At least for me. And how did Mike think he knew that I WAS saved? No one knows another man's heart.