TPCWOC staff and members going to another conference at false prosperity city church, Generation Conference.Prosperity with purpose conference was another. Mike likes to go to prophecy conferences. Mike has a city church pastor on the board of his fake bible college PNBC(SOMA). How many conferences do they need to go to. They went to Casey ( the helicopter guy ) Treats vision conference, some went to one in Las Vegas, some to Bill Johnsons church for a conference,TPCWOC had a conference, another church in our area just had a conference that TP people went to, TP staff and PNBC(SOMA) people have been to alot of conferences. I found this post on City business Church-a paraody of City Bible Church, they even have a city church category , TPCWOC youth program and the church that Jeff (the Rock) Barnes pretends to be in charge of, wants to be like one of big false prosperity, word-faith movement churches. The post explains why people run to these conferences:

That's what I keep hearing from certain charismatic evangelical circles with the word "city" incorporated somewhere in the name of their church that host an annual generation conference. In fact a quick search of "generation conference promo” on YouTube will bring up dozens of videos showing clips of youth pastors and teachers affiliated with these churches preaching all sorts of hype about how their conference will "change young people for God," or "ignite the hearts of people to see Jesus invade our culture," or "bring a radical impact to society." These are the claims year after year after year, yet I don't see any of it. In fact I don't see this generation of young people, say 13 to 23, acting any different today then any generation did 10, 15, or even 20 years ago. Many people would even say kids have gotten worse over the generations, not better. So why do these people continually tout their church/conference/gathering/message/etc. as the one that will "win this generation for God?" I wish I had the answer; maybe then there would be no need for a blog like this.

Deep down I really am concerned about the perils of society, and I wish these gatherings would do more. But right now, I just don’t think they are. I mean these churches have so much money, with so many resources and so many volunteers, why in the hell can't they actually make a difference? Now inevitably someone will say "Generation (fill in the blank) Conference" changed my life. And as someone who participated in a few of these things I totally get it. In fact I'm not even saying they are all bad. What I am saying is that they could be so much better! I mean if you really look at it, a majority of these conferences recycle the same 20 speakers, with the same 20 messages and the same 20 worship songs, reaching the same 20 types of people. Can't you see what's wrong with that?

So for those who absolutely swear by these events, there's nothing anyone of us can really say or do that will cause you to think outside the box. But for the rest of you out there, ask yourself WHERE IS THE CHANGE? Not that I think the entire city of Portland, or Seattle, or San Diego, or Atlanta (or anywhere else these conferences are spreading) should become Christian Capital USA, but it should be safe to say that if these conferences really were "igniting a generation for God" or causing a "global movement" (as one promo claimed), there would be SOME sign of spiritual uprising, correct? Am I wrong for thinking this? I just want these churches and the people who run them to WAKE UP! Stop positioning yourselves for fame and fortune. Stop trying to be the most sought after conference speaker. Stop using impressionable youth as a way to create name recognition. And please for the love of God, stop trying to be so cool and hip and loved. DO start representing Jesus the way He called you to, with truth, grace and most of all, humility.

So this is a call to anyone and everyone who participates in these giant gatherings to be more then just sheep lapping up everything put before you and following the ways of every other church that holds these things. Ask questions, explore truths, seek answers and do not let your mind be lost in the “oo and ah” of the moment. Because if you do, 10, 20, maybe even 30 years later, you will find yourself lost in a world of spiritual confusion that will take a long time to recover from

buddy the conferences are a great place to get a lot of people together, and pass the baskets or buckets and collect lots of money, its like having concerts,shows and any other entertainment events. It helps get churchs out of the hole. even church bible colleges can gernerate income, selling God is a big business, you dont want to mess up the economy buddy. I know you will say that God freely gives us gifts and we should freely share them with others. but this is america buddy, The land of oppertunists, oops I mean oppertunity, capitolism belongs in the churches its the american way. Now buddy your not antiamerican are you? if so we may have to smite you.

Why the conferences , cd's , seminars , men's meetings , women's meeting , marriage seminars , fake bible college , I'll make you rich speakers and all other scams etc. etc. etc. ? C'Mon , " For The Love Of Money Is The Root Of All Evil " .

2006 Charitable donations figure : "The biggest chunk of the donations, $96.82 billion or 32.8%, went to religious organizations in the U.S."

2% (2004) of a congregation's annual budget goes towards social welfare programs in the U.S. (on average ).

Kind of goes against the old "It's better to give than receive". Taking care of the widow or the poor or the hungry or the lowly-in-spirit ain't hip at TPWOC or many others apparently !

There is roughly 100 Billion dollars a year donated to religious organizations , and out of that 2 billion actually makes it out of their pockets . Pathetic ! Especially when you figure in the tax-exempt status of these businesses (church) . And the church probably gets to write off what it does give as charity ! That would be too much !

A person can only Imagine what is spent by the average american church-goer on attending the events in the first sentence . It is a business plain and simple ! Faith , hope , love , humility , compassion , you name it , it is all for sale . You will pay for it , you will be told by your church you have attained it (through them of course) but in who's eyes do you really have any of those traits if you are only viewed through the eyes of the salesman you went through , and that salesman's other "satisfied" customers that are seated around you at the "Pay To Play" events and in an rented out school gym ?

And of course to retain you as a loyal customer they tell you everyone "OUT THERE" is your enemy . They (the imaginary enemy no-one but the cult leading pastor can see of course) want to take everything you have . They want your job , your marriage , your posessions everything you have or will ever have ! Well if you look at the numbers and the amount of money taken by (undisclosed salary) and demanded from your "Leader" in the form of tithes , double tithes , triple tithes , special tithes , vacation tithes , sabbatical tithes , posess the land building tithes , missionary tithes he is doing all he can do to get what you have ! And don't forget the price of attending (or risk being shamed) all the items listed in the opening sentence ! Peace !



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2010 02:54AM by ostracizedone.

Quote
nooneofanyimportence
buddy the conferences are a great place to get a lot of people together, and pass the baskets or buckets and collect lots of money, its like having concerts,shows and any other entertainment events. It helps get churchs out of the hole. even church bible colleges can gernerate income, selling God is a big business, you dont want to mess up the economy buddy. I know you will say that God freely gives us gifts and we should freely share them with others. but this is america buddy, The land of oppertunists, oops I mean oppertunity, capitolism belongs in the churches its the american way. Now buddy your not antiamerican are you? if so we may have to smite you.

Yeh, I remember going to hundreds of rock concerts in my early days and paying money to get entertained. Only to find out 30 years later that I lost my hearing and burned up alot of brain cells. The bands made money, the venue made money, the drug dealers made money and I lost my money!

Here is an Example of Another Religious Business Model

This year on the TBN telethon, after Hinn stated that Jesus was going to physically appear at one of his crusades (which did not happen, surprised!), Hinn revealed his true colors and methodology. “You have held back from the Lord in the past, don’t you dare do it now. The day will come you will stand before Him and give an answer. How dare we not give to God. How dare we hold back. Who do we think He is, some neighbor of ours? He’s God almighty. We fear the Lord God of Hosts. He’s not some man, He’s God. If Jesus tonight appeared on this platform here and looked through this camera and said to you ‘I need your offerings so I can touch the world,’ would you give to him? Of course! Well, I’ve got news for you, He’s saying it, He’s saying it, He’s saying it through his servants. He’s saying it through his word. He’s saying it! The Bible clearly states ‘how shall they go unless they be sent?’ And God is speaking to you, so obey him. SOME OF YOU NEED TO GIVE LARGE SUMS TONIGHT. Don’t you give those small sums if you have the large sums. Many of you have those small sums. The best you can give is all God wants from you. The best you can give is all He expects of ya. But some of you watching right now have money in the bank. You’re gonna leave it behind. YOU MAY EVEN LOSE IT UNLESS YOU OBEY God tonight. Give to God tonight! God is speaking to you now! Do you know by holding back from God you’re keeping God’s blessings from your family? By holding back from the Lord you’re saying ‘no Lord, I don’t want your presence in my home.’ (Mar.29, 2000 TBN). Does anyone see the manipulation of guilt and fear being used here? This insinuates one must pay God for His presence when the Bible says, “He will never leave nor forsake us”, and that he dwells in the believer always despite any prerequisite from Hinn. Who does this man think he is? As if Christianity revolves around his ministry

Did Christ or any of his disciples ever ask for money before or after performing a miracle? No! In fact, Jesus commanded them to speak and carry out the miracles freely. (Mt. 10:6) “Freely you have received, freely now give.” What we see today is nothing short than the prostitution of the gospel. When Peter encountered the lame man of Acts 3, and healed him he had no money nor did he ask for any. (Acts 3:6)

Hinn went on to say that one was being disobedient to God by not contributing financially to the coming harvest through TBN! One must give to TBN in order to demonstrate their true obedience to God. Hinn claimed that God was even healing many as they called in their contributions. But he says this is not selling healing for money. Instead, he claims it is God blessing those who are truly obedient and worthy to receive his anointing! Hinn even claimed that God was saving people the pledgers knew as they were calling in their pledge to TBN.

In response to a reporter from Christianity Today who was trying to hold him accountable, Hinn stated, “The Bible warns us clearly that we must not attack men of God no matter how sinful they may have become or wicked in our eyes.” Really! Is this why Nathan called out King David, or Jeremiah rebuked another prophet, or Elijah chastised King Ahab, or Paul rebuked Peter for compromising the gospel! No, on this matter Hinn is very wrong. This is especially crucial or those who wield such power as Hinn to so many people. Scripture warns, “Blessed are the wounds of a friend, deceitful are the kisses of an enemy.” Where are Hinn’s friends? Don’t they care . Do you?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2010 04:22AM by ostracizedone.

Where are Mike's friends? That's what has made me so angry. No one ever stood up to him. Idiots all!!

His "friends" are "impressed followers" of the his personality traits such as :

Trait 1: Glibness/superficial charm

Glibness is a hallmark of [cult leaders]. They are able to use language effortlessly to beguile, confuse, and convince. They are captivating storytellers. They exude self-confidence and are able to spin a web that intrigues others and pulls them into the [cult leader’s] life.

Trait 2: Manipulative and conning

Cult leaders do not recognize the individuality or rights of others, which makes all self-serving behaviors permissible. The hallmark of the [cult leader] is the psychopathic maneuver, which is essentially interpersonal manipulation “based on charm. The manipulator appears to be helpful, charming even ingratiating or seductive, but is covertly hostile, domineering…”

Trait 3: Grandiose sense of self

The cult leader enjoys tremendous feelings of entitlement. He believes everything is owed to him as a right. Preoccupied with his own fantasies, he must always be the center of attention. He presents himself as the ‘Ultimate One’: enlightened, a vehicle of god, a genius, the leader of humankind, and sometimes even the most humble of humble. He has an insatiable need of adulation and attendance. His grandiosity may also be a defense against inner emptiness, depression, and a sense of insignificance.

Trait 4: Pathological lying

[Cult leaders] lie coolly and easily, even when it is obvious they are being untruthful. It is almost impossible for them to be consistently truthful about either a major or minor issue. They lie for no apparent reason, even when it would seem easier and safer to tell the truth…

Trait 5: Lack of remorse, shame or guilt

…[cult leaders] see those around them as objects, targets, or opportunities, not as people. They do not have friends, they have victims and accomplices – and the latter frequently end as victims. For [cult leaders], the ends always justify the means. Thus there is no place for feelings of remorse, shame, or guilt. Cult leaders feel justified in all their actions since they consider themselves the ultimate moral arbiter. Nothing gets in their way.

Trait 6: Shallow emotions

…Hiding behind the “mask of sanity”, the cult leader exposes feelings insofar as they serve an ulterior motive. He can witness or order acts of utter brutality without experiencing a shred of emotion. He casts himself in a role of total control, which he plays to the hilt. What is most promised in cults – peace, joy, enlightenment, love, and security – are goals that are forever out of reach of the leader, and thus also the followers. Since the leader is not genuine, neither are his promises.

Trait 7: Incapacity for love

As the “living embodiment of God’s love,” the leader is tragically flawed in being able to either give or receive love…

…The leader’s tremendous need to be loved is accompanied by an equally strong disbelief in the love offered him by his followers…

Trait 8: Need for stimulation

Thrill-seeking behaviors, often skirting the letter or spirit of the law, are common among [cult leaders]…

Trait 9: Callousness/lack of empathy

[Cult leaders] readily take advantage of others, expressing utter contempt for anyone else’s feelings. Someone in distress is not important to them.

Trait 10: Poor behavioral controls/impulsive nature

Like small children, many [cult leaders] have difficulty regulating their emotions. Adults who have temper tantrums are frightening to be around. Rage and abuse, alternating with token expressions of love and approval, produce an addictive cycle for both abuser and abused, as well as create a sense of hopelessness in the latter…

Who could possibly control someone who believes himself to be all-powerful, all-knowing, and entitled to every wish, someone who has no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for the impact on those around him? Generally this aberrant behavior is a well-kept secret, known only to a few disciples. The others see only perfection… Although intelligent, perceptive, and quite good at sizing people up, they make no real connections with others. They use their “people skills” to exploit, abuse, and wield power.

Trait 11: Early behavior problems/juvenile delinquency

[Cult leaders] frequently have a history of behavioral and academic difficulties. They often “get by” academically, conning other students and teachers. Encounters with juvenile authorities are frequent.

Trait 12: Irresponsibility/unreliability

Not concerned about the consequences of their behavior, [cult leaders] leave behind them the wreckage of others’ lives and dreams. They may be totally oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they inflict on others, something which they regard as neither their problem nor their responsibility.

Trait 13: Promiscuous sexual behavior/infidelity

Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, polygamy, rape, and sexual acting out of all sorts are frequently practiced by cult leaders. Conversely, there is often stringent sexual control of the followers through such tactics as enforced celibacy, arranged marriages, forced breakups and divorces, removal of children from their parents, forced abortions or mandated births. For [cult leaders], sex is primarily a control and power issue…

Trait 14: Lack of realistic life plan/parasitic lifestyle

The [cult leader] tends to move around a lot, making countless efforts at “starting over” while seeking out fertile new ground to exploit…

Trait 15: Criminal or entrepreneurial versatility

Cult leaders change their image and that of the group as needed to avoid prosecution and litigation, to increase income, and to recruit a range of members. Cult leaders have an innate ability to attract followers who have the skills and connections that the leaders lack. The longevity of the group is dependent on the willingness of the leadership to adapt as needed and preserve the group…

A cult’s leader is crucial to understanding the group itself, as psychologist Margaret Singer describes it:

In my study of cults, I find that the personality, preferences, and desires of the leader are central in the evolution of any of these groups. Cults are truly personality cults. Because cult structure is basically authoritarian, the personality of the leader is all-important. Cults come to reflect the ideas, style, and whims of the leader and become extensions of the leader. This is something you better believe cult leaders have figured out. By creating a cult following of people who want to learn your system you can make a living , in fact, you can make a damn good living doing this. It just so happens to be a massive pyramid scheme. Cults thrive on volunteer labor, fundraising, and endless stream of required texts/videos/equipment (for advancement in the system) and bartering of services instead of payment. When you read the warning signs of cults, you will see one of the recurring themes is making money, lots of it. And with the aforementioned tactics, make money they do.

Now this is not to imply that a successful business is automatically a cult. Far from it. However, a cult tends to have very specific money distribution patterns. In looking at the money flow, you will see an example of one of the defining differences between a cult and a healthy organization: orientation.

A healthy organization turns its focus outward, a cult's focus is inward. Keep this idea in mind as you read because you will see manifestations of it again and again. How does this inward focus manifest with finances in a cult? Simple, where is the money going?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2010 02:09PM by ostracizedone.

I was listening to this sermon by Mark Driscol at Mars Hill ( he is controversial, yes ). At the 24 minute mark in the message he begins to describe Scribes. Take a listen and tell me if this description sounds familiar to you

[www.marshillchurch.org]


Below is the transcript of the actual audio.

The religious people, the Pharisees and the scribes, look around and they start criticizing, “What is Jesus doing?” Let me just say this: beware of anyone who wants you to be holier than Jesus. There is no one holier than Jesus but sometimes religious people want you to be holier than Jesus. Here the religious people want the disciples of Jesus to be holier in their estimation than Jesus.
The Scribes and the Pharisees

But let me unpack this for you. He mentions the scribes and the Pharisees. They will appear repeatedly as sort of the religious antagonists against Jesus throughout this gospel and the others. Now a scribe was a professional theologian, they were formally trained. They were formally trained. These are guys who were enjoying the equivalent of seminary or Bible college. They’ve memorized books of the Bible. They’re very studious. These are the geeks for God. They love footnotes. It’s those guys. And they’re very serious and they love to make rules and lists and impose their will on others because they’re the holy men who serve God, very serious.

And under them were Pharisees. Now Pharisees were the working class, not formally theologically educated masses. And these would be the groups of people who are very zealous, very devoted, very motivated for their scribe. And the scribe then, in an effort to extend their authority, would add rules to the Bible and they would impose them on people and bind them to live not just according to the Scriptures, but according to the traditions of the scribe. And so the Pharisees were— They were passionate, they were devoted, they become some of the most influential leaders in early Judaism. After the temple is destroyed in 70 A.D., they become the predominant voice for the Jewish people. They miss Jesus. Some, in fact, did love Jesus, but the majority rejected him.

And here’s what’s going on. The Pharisees would choose a scribe and they would want this to be their teacher, and so they would ask the scribe, “Could I please be on your team? Would you be my teacher?” And if it was a very popular sort of rock star, lots of friends on Facebook, lots of Twitter followers kind of scribe, there was a long line of people who wanted to be in his closed community, be taught by him, led by him and also religiously praised by him. So it was sort of an application process. “Oh, I want to be with so and so.” And what you would do then is you would give money to the scribe, and some of the scribes got very, very, very rich. And you would serve the scribe. So the scribe now became sort of a spoiled, soft, spiritual leader. Everybody’s taking care of them and tending to their every need and giving them lots of money and praising them all the time and thinking that they speak on behalf of God and their authority is almost equivalent to Scripture, and what they say is law and you better obey it otherwise the other people in the community that are also among the Pharisees on your team, they will shame you, they will scorn you, they will come against you. Lot of fear, control, and intimidation, as is always the case with religion.

And what you really wanted if you were a Pharisee, you wanted your kids to get trained by that scribe. So you think almost in terms of an exclusive prep school. There are lots of scribes but some of them, boy, if your kid could get into that scribe’s school, wow. Now they’re gonna be really respected. They’re earning potential’s gonna go up. Their spiritual pride and perfection will be increased. You could put a bumper sticker on your camel, you know, “My kid’s an honor roll student at Rabbi Gamaliel’s class.” It’s a big deal. There’s a lot of social pressure to get your family under the right scribe, get your kid under the right scribe.

So you’re paying money, you’re doing favors, you’re serving this guy. You’re in every way stroking his ego so that he will increase your religious position in the community. And if you got your kid in under this guy, this particular scribe that you wanted, you’d have to continue to pay a lot of money. And then your kid would have to swear allegiance to the scribe above their own parents. SPIRITUAL PARENTING anyone? -describes JB's and JM's relationship to Mike. Both have sworn a greater allegiance to Mike than to their own parents. So the scribe became second only to God. He’s almost a mediator, like Jesus, but a false mediator. He tells you what to do, he tells you what God says and you just obey him. He’s in the false functional position of savior, lord and Christ, very dangerous, spiritual abuse. And then your child would have allegiance to the scribe beyond their own parents and they would follow this scribe around. They’d listen to every word he said, copiously take notes. The kids are all competing against one another. Who’s gonna memorize the most Hebrew? Who’s gonna memorize the most books of the Old Testament? Who’s gonna pass the oral exams? Who will answer all the scribe’s questions? Who will be able to follow in his ways and not forget any of his rules and live really strictly and obediently[/b] so that maybe someday if you did a really good job, then God would love you, then God would embrace you, then God would accept you. It’s corrupt religion at its core, and everything, sometimes even Christianity, has some form of this sickness.

And what would happen then is if you got the right rabbi and you paid enough money and you served well enough and the scribe accepted you and your child worked really hard, they could pass their classes. They could become a religious leader, which was a very honored position in the community. And when they were about forty years of age, right around my age, I’ll be forty in October, your child could become a scribe. They could be in this position of spiritual authority. They could write books. They could give lectures. They could open their own school. They could get their own students. They could make a lot of money. They could be very powerful. They could take care of you in your old age.

And the children and the adults who were in the community of the Pharisees were in a closed community. To get into that community, you had to apply, you had to earn it. You had to give generously. You had to work hard. It’s not like Mars Hill. Not a grace-centered community where everybody’s welcome. You can come for free and you don’t have to do anything, but if you meet Jesus and the Holy Spirit’s in you, you’ll want to, out of grace, not out of guilt, not because you have to but because you want to. Not so that God will love you but because of Christ he already has. Totally different motivation.

And one of the big honors was once you got accepted to one of these closed communities, you and your family got to eat together with the other families in the tribe of Pharisees and sometimes you could even eat with the scribe. The scribe would come into the meal and, “Here’s the holy man. Here’s the holy man. He’s here with us. We’re closer to God because we’re under scribe so and so. We’re closer to God because we get the real teaching. As long as we obey his rules, God’s okay with us.” And so you would only eat in a friendly community way with the other Pharisees, not even the Pharisees in the other schools. You wouldn’t eat with people from other denominations or traditions. They didn’t have it quite right. Their scribe was not as good as your scribe. Your scribe was better than their scribe and there was religious conflict and pride and pecking order.

You would eat with your friends and you would eat with your community and you would undergo testing for anywhere from a month to a year to even be allowed into the community, and then you could live near these people and you could eat with these people and you could be friends with these people. Now your children could intermarry with these people and you could keep a pure, spiritual bloodline and you all could have the same beliefs, not just what the Bible said, that’s actually a good idea, but what your scribe said. ‘Cause see, people sometimes want to go beyond the Bible thinking that the more they do, the more holy they become. The truth is the further you move away from Scripture, the more deceived and demonic you become, the more religious you inevitably become.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2010 04:29AM by TurningPointReject.

SPIRITUAL PARENTING anyone? -describes JB's and JM's relationship to Mike. Both have sworn a greater allegiance to Mike than to their own parents. So the scribe became second only to God.

Would it not be accurate to say that is the goal of the twisted teachings of that establishment ? I would dare say that it is not only a goal but a requirement of the elders and deacons who in turn help establish this principle as being essential to the spiritual well being of the congregational lemmings . In Mikes "PERFECT WORLD" all that work under him (we are all under mike) or attend there would be sworn to a greater allegiance to him over not only their parents but God as well ! After all it is not God that provides Mike and his mob their livelihood it is the wallets of the congregational lemmings !