In reply to [forum.culteducation.com]
Dear iATTEND

So the Flea says to the Dog…
"Don’t scratch and everything will be okay.”

That’s easy to say when you are the flea, but when you are the dog, you feel like your paws have been tied and you must tolerate the attacks of the flea lest you be labeled an intolerant dog. That is exactly what is happening lately as the “Tolerance Intolerance Trick” becomes more sophisticated.

What is the “Tolerance Intolerance Trick?” It is a phrase coined by Greg Koukle of Stand to Reason (smart guy for an old earther). Postmoderns have redefined “tolerance” to mean, “Don’t disagree with me or you are intolerant.” Unfortunately, words have meanings and we can’t tolerate someone unless we have a disagreement. Lately, this trick has been making appearances in rather subtle ways.

The less important realm where this tactic has been used is politics. Recently our president scolded the audience at the (sort of) evangelical National Prayer Breakfast by basically saying, “Don’t disagree with me, that is not civil.” That is like the forest fire saying to the humans, “Put down those hoses and we will get along just fine.”

The more important realm where this tactic is utilized is religion. Specifically the emergents, neo-liberals, dominion theologists and Word Faithers have been using this whiney trick. “Let us introduce our heresy or you are not nice.” Again, that is like the rash saying, “Don’t scratch me or you are a big meanie.”

Imagine if we said, “Stop challenging everything or you are cruel.” We would not do that because that is not a valid argument. So how do we respond to this juvenile rouse? Perhaps these phrases from Wretched Radio listeners will be helpful. When a progressive theologian (read, “liberal”) says, “It is not loving to impose your beliefs by disagreeing with me,” say:

* So you’re telling me I can have all the cookies I want as long as it is just two?

* Do you also tell your children they can stay out as late as they want as long as they are home by ten?

* Aren’t you imposing your beliefs on me by telling me I can’t impose my beliefs on you?


Frankly, this modern day evasive strategy designed to sneak heresy into the church is about as sissified as many youth pastors. It is whiney, lazy and weak. Don’t let them get away with it. The Gospel must be defended and you are not the bad guy for doing so.

We are instructed to test everything 1 Thessalonians 5:21
v20 do not treat prophecies with contempt. v21 Test everything. Hold on to the good. v22 Avoid every kind of evil.
It is our responsibility to know the word of God to be able to recognize a false teaching.
If your theology is not firmly rooted or built on the rock Jesus Christ then we need to back up and look at what you believe and why?

Have you ever read Revelation chapters 1-3? These messages to the churches are critical to understanding the roll the church has today. In chapter 2 Jesus is encourage by the Ephesus church Verse 2 & 3
I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false. You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary.
Yes the Church Congregation needs to be testing all the teachings in the church according to the word of God.
Here is the whole message to the Church in Ephesus
These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands: 2I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false. 3You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary. 4Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken your first love. 5Remember the height from which you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. 6But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. 7He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
In chapter 2:20-21 Jesus says: I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. Wow! I have this against you! I read that and I don't want to hear that from the Lord. You tolerate........

Please watch this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuabITeO4l8
I would like to hear you thoughts.

Dear iATTEND
False teachers are rampant in this world and they have especially found a comfortable homes in churches in our neighborhoods.
Jesus said: Matthew 7:13-23
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

I encourage you, do not tolerate the false teachers and test everything!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2010 12:14PM by BraveHeart.

Are You The Victim of a Mind Control Cult?
Test Yourself.

(Please answer the following questions honestly)

Do you feel that no matter how hard you try, the ‘good deeds’ you perform for your group are never quite enough? As a result of this do you often feel plagued with feelings of guilt?


What are you motivated by? Is it genuine love for God and the group etc., or is it fear of not meeting the desired standards.


Is questioning the group, or the group leaders, discouraged or frowned upon?


Does the group you belong to believe that it is an elite and exclusive organisation which alone has ‘the truth’ and answers to life’s questions?


Does the group pour scorn upon, attack, and mock other Christian churches and their interpretation of the Bible?


Is reading any literature critical of your church discouraged? Many cults will warn members not to read anything critical of the group, especially if written by an ex-member (who are called names by the cult such as “apostate”, “hardened”, or “of the devil” etc.). This is a well known information control technique to stop the member from discovering the clear and documented errors of the cult. Members abilities to think for themselves is effectively disarmed in this way. Instead, they will think more and more as the rest of the group thinks.


Take a look at the way the group looks and acts. Does everyone dress more or less the same, act the same, and talk the same? One observer, speaking of his particular involvement with a cult, said that the group encouraged its members “to do everything in exactly the same way - to pray the same, to look the same, to talk the same. This in psychology is a classic example of group conformity. Its purpose is to ensure that no-one tries to act differently or become dissident, thus nobody questions the status quo.” (Andrew Hart, Jan. 1999).


Does the group discourage association with non-members (except, maybe, for the possibility of converting them to the group)?


Does the group give you ‘black and white answers’? What the group agrees with is right and what the group disagrees with is wrong.


Does everyone in the group believe exactly the same things (i.e. what the group leaders tell them to believe)? Is there no room for individual belief, or opinion even in minor areas?


Does the group wear ‘two faces’? On the one hand, does it attempt to present itself, to potential converts and the public at large, as a group of people who are like one large family, who have love among themselves, where everyone is equal? But on the other hand, the reality is, that many members inwardly feel unfulfilled and emotionally exhausted?


Have you attempted to disable your own God-given critical thinking abilities by ‘shelving’ various doubts about the group or group’s teachings etc.
Are others in the group, who do not conform to the requirements of the movement’s teaching, treated with suspicion, and treated like second class members?


Does the group tend to withhold certain information from the potential convert? Are the more unusual doctrines of the group not discussed until an individual is more deeply involved in the movement?


Do you feel fearful of leaving the group? Many cults use subtle fear tactics to stop members from leaving. For example, the group may imply that those who leave will be attacked by the Devil, have a nasty accident, or at least not prosper because they have left ‘the truth’.



If you answered “yes” to most of the questions above, the group that you are involved with is certainly using manipulative mind control techniques. Now that you know this, what will you do?

Some warning signs of cult followers:

Leader criticism is characterized as "persecution"

extreme obsessiveness toward leader or group, resulting in the exclusion of every practical concern

a dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor

former followers are, at best, considered negatively, and at worst considered evil

anything the leader does can be justified, no matter how harsh or harmful.

[www.neirr.org]

[www.youtube.com]

Here is the beginning of a letter that is posted on the Turning Point web site from Pastors Mike & Cyndi. When I read this letter I was asking where are these people are coming from and what bible are they reading?

Quote
Mike & Cyndi
To the churches of Turning Point and Partners in the Gospel of Jesus Christ,

In 1988, while cleaning up after a small group Bible study in our home, the Lord showed up in Cyndi’s and my hallway and changed our lives forever.
He spoke that night and said, “Mike, I will have all of you or I will have none of you.” As we, in tears, pondered those words, we knew we had one choice to make: “All or nothing.” It was then that we knew He was calling us to the ministry of Jesus’ Gospel. From that calling we have had the tremendous privilege of serving God’s people for over 20 years, and we want to say “Thank you!”

(WHAT?
Jesus returned to earth and stood in your hallway?
And he talked to you?
Do you people realize the implication you are making here?
What kind of theology are you making up here?
What are you people smoking or is it the Kool-Aid your drinking?

The bible says that when Jesus returns Matthew 24:36-51
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.
"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, 'My master is staying away a long time,' and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.)
Right off the Bat you people are displaying that your following a nut job false teacher.

Quote
Mike & Cyndi cont.
To this day, “all or nothing” has formed the core of our decision-making processes. If God has all of us, then we must always be asking, “What does He want us to do?” Having asked, we also must be equally zealous to do whatever it is He asks. It is through such asking that God has recently directed one of the most difficult, yet exciting, transitions of our lives.

Beginning Sunday, January 10th, Pastor Cyndi & I will be transitioning from our pastoral roles here at TPCWOC into our apostolic roles with the larger body of churches. At the same time, Pastor Jeff Barnes will be transitioning into the role of Senior Pastor of TPCWOC. Over the years, God has spoken of this transition through a series of dreams, visions, and prophetic words from various people in our lives.......................

(Really? By what authority or signs and wonders do these two people have to qualify themselves as being apostles or performing an apostolic roll in the church?? did they get is from the self appointed false apostle Tony Cunningham??)

If what we are saying about Turning Point church or Radiant Life church, Tony Cunningham or Mike Villamor was not true, then none of the accusations observations and or testimonies would stick.
But they do stick! And finally some of you people are waking up to the truth!!! We saw a mass exodus from Radiant life and we are seeing one with Turning Point.
We have accurately pointed out the many false theological connections TPC has with Tony Cunningham in Sacramento. Turning Point Church has a flawed foundation beginning with their embracing Tony Cunningham as an apostle and elevating Mike to the same office. These guys are Charlatans!!!
You People at TPC, from Mike & Cyndi Villamor to Jeff & Kim Barns these leaders are still promoting a false teaching steeped in the Word Faith Prosperity Movement. There connections to Liberalism and Universalism are woven throughout their teachings and are found in books that they promote like ‘The Shack’ or ‘The Purpose Driven Life’ by Rick Warren. Look at the people they think are prosperous like Benny Hinn who is now facing a divorce from his wife. Or Tony Cunningham his following is down to 150 people from 3000+ people.
The message that they promote is if you follow our Jesus you will have prosperity.

Jesus said Matthew 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.

Yes, Braveheart...and did you note that Mike and Cyndi never cited the Word of God (Scripture) as a source or impetus for their decision-making or ministry basis? Special revelation--let's use their own words again: "Over the years, God has spoken of this transition through a series of dreams, visions, and prophetic words from various people in our lives"--is their primary (and apparently only) source of direction.

This is dangerous stuff, everyone! Just as in their ministry, Jesus Christ is not the center or main subject of their work, but is relegated to being a validating "ornament," so also the Word of God is nowhere to be found in their testimony about where they've come from and where they're going.

Any person who is following a leader (or leaders) who does not focus solely on God, His Word, and the Gospel, but rather focuses on his ministry goals and agenda, thereby glorifying himself and his ministry role, is as you said, Braveheart, a charlatan--a pretender and false teacher. End of story.

I left TP a while ago and have been following the forum. I found this article and thought it aptly summarized some of the beliefs of people at TP. And I believe that the leadership endorses or follows some of these people. I've included the link to the entire article which also includes references.

CREFLO DOLLAR

Creflo A. Dollar is the founder of the nearly 24,000-member World Changers Church International in College Park, Georgia.3 The Trinity Broadcasting Network airs his Changing Your World television program worldwide. Dollar holds no degree in theology, and much of his prosperity message is based on the teachings of spiritual mentor Kenneth Copeland.4

It is common for teachers of false doctrine to redefine the nature of God. For example, a Jehovah’s Witness denies the three-personed nature of the Godhead, considering Jesus to be the archangel Michael incarnate. A Mormon considers Jesus to be one of many gods and the spirit brother of Lucifer. It becomes painfully apparent that without a correct understanding of the nature of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, people find themselves worshipping a false god.

Creflo Dollar is typical of many Word of Faith teachers who redefine and re-create God in man’s image. He teaches that “Jesus didn’t come as God, He came as a man, and He did not come perfect.”5 Realizing how controversial this statement is, he then adds: “How many of you know the Bible says God never sleeps nor slumbers? And yet in the Book of Mark we see Jesus asleep in the back of the boat. This ain’t no heresy. I’m not some false prophet. I’m just reading this thing to you out of the Bible.”6

This teaching flatly contradicts John 1:14, which says “The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.”7 The Word—God in Jesus Christ—became flesh, not the other way around, and to claim that God was anything less than perfect is heresy. Jesus was the God-Man and as such He had human limitations, such as having to eat and sleep like the rest of us. Carrying Dollar’s teaching to its logical conclusion, Jesus must have been a sinner, given the fact that anything less than perfection involves sin. Such a Savior, however, would have been unable to rescue us from our sins.

Dollar’s next strategy is to elevate man to the status of godhood. “I’m gonna say to you right now that you are gods, little ‘g.’ You are gods because you came from God and you are gods.”8 Isaiah rejects Dollar’s claim when he writes, “’You are my witnesses,’ declares the Lord, ‘and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me’” (Isa. 43:10).

Dollar attempted to prove while in conversation with Kenneth Copeland that we have equality with God:

In Philippians chapter 2, I want you to look at verse 5…. ‘Let this mind, let this attitude be in you which was also in Christ Jesus.’ So now, what mind, what attitude is it that you want me to make sure that this same attitude is in me?… ‘Who being in the form of God thought it not robbery to be equal with God.’…Now, if I’m to take what he said here and put it on, then my whole attitude now should be I have equality with God….Now somebody says, well it’s hard to think that way. Well, keep saying it….Talk yourself into it.’”9

God responds, “‘To whom will you compare me? Or who is my equal?’ says the Holy One. Lift your eyes and look to the heavens: Who created all these? He who brings out the starry host one by one, and calls them each by name” (Isa. 40:25–26b). It is nothing less than blasphemy to try and claim that we have equality with God.

Philippians 2:5-11, in context, tells us that just as Christ, who is greater than us, humbled Himself, so we are to humble ourselves in relation to each other. This is just the opposite of Dollar’s explanation. He is asking his followers to exalt themselves, while Jesus makes it clear that “whoever exalts himself will be humbled” (Matt. 23:12).

Psalm 111:10a states, “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.” By treating God as an equal, however, Dollar doesn’t appear to exhibit any reverential fear of Him whatsoever. Having led his followers to believe that they are little gods who have equality with God, it follows that they should have everything their hearts desire. They thus believe that they simply can’t be happy without money. “See, there are some people that believe not in prosperity….They don’t want to hear about that God is a God that wants to put money in your hand….Well, you need to hear about money, because you ain’t gonna have no love and joy and peace until you get some money!”10

This teaching inevitably leads to a different gospel than the one in the Bible. Dollar questions: “What’s the Gospel to those who are poor? Prosperity! What’s the Gospel to those who lack? Prosperity! And if you don’t preach it, then you won’t be able to do anything about the poverty situation.”11

Jesus often healed the blind and the lame, but the Gospels fail to give us a single example of Jesus bestowing riches on the poor. Dollar maintains that material possessions are important for preaching the gospel “because you have a world of people out there that don’t know your Jesus, but when they start seeing you with their stuff, they’re going to want to know how you got it and they’ll want you to introduce them to the Jesus that’s able to open doors up without the college degree.”12 Dollar’s gospel has people coming to Jesus for material gain instead of forgiveness of sins.

Scripture clearly teaches us not to labor for earthly goods. Matthew 6:19–20 says, “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.”

Scripture promises that trials will come “so that your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed” (1 Pet. 1:7). The church ignores Christ’s words at its own peril.

T. D. JAKES

T. D. Jakes was the subject of a Christian Research Journal cover story in 1999.13 His aberrant Word of Faith doctrine and his denial of the trinity14 continue to the present. Not content with his modalist view that God is only one person who manifests Himself as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, he now takes the heretical view that God manifests Himself in other ways as well. Jakes says:

When God says ‘I AM that I AM,’ He says, ‘I can become whatever,’ and He showed off from that point on all through the wilderness. He just kept turning into stuff….They said ‘We want meat.’ He became quail and started flying through the air. They said ‘What are we going to do for water?’ He became water, came gushing out of a rock….They said ‘We can’t drink this bitter water.’ He became a tree and turned the bitter water sweet. I mean, He just kept turning into stuff! One God manifesting in a multiplicity of ways. One God. Now, you don’t divide all of those manifestations into different Gods, the God of Bread, the God of Quail, the God of Water, the God of Tree, the God of Cloud, the God of Fire. Just one God Who manifests Himself in many different ways….Your God is multifaceted, manifold, many shades.15

Jakes places great emphasis on the power of words, making the incredible claim that “it’s the Word of God that makes the difference, so powerful that as long as Jesus was talking on the cross He couldn’t die. It was only when He shut His mouth and hung His head in the locks of His shoulder that death could come and take Him, because He had so much life in His mouth that as long as He was talking death couldn’t get near Him.”16

We too, according to Jakes, can exercise the power of words to get whatever we want from God. Jakes, in relating the story of the blind man, Bartimaeus, said:

But it was not what was in Christ’s mouth that got him healed. The power was in Bartimaeus’ mouth. He would have whatever he said. And Jesus was saying ‘My hands are tied because I can’t do any more for you than what you say.’…If the power of life and death is in the tongue and you can have whatever you say and if you’ve been praying and praying and praying and you finally got God’s attention and now He’s looking at you and saying ‘What do you want?’…What do you want? Name it, baby, name it ….Declare it! Speak it! Confess it! Get your list out!17

Jakes warns of the power of the tongue when he says, “That Word of God is how God procreates. It’s how God regenerates. It’s the Word of God that does it every time. And that’s why once you get in the Word of God you gotta be careful what you speak to, because the power of life and death is in your tongue.”18

Jakes and other proponents of such teaching refer to Proverbs 18:21, “The tongue has the power of life and death, and those who love it will eat its fruit.” Proverbs isn’t teaching that when you speak a limited God has to give you whatever you say. The Expositor’s Bible Commentary’s explanation of this passage is that “those who enjoy talking, i.e., indulging in it, must bear its fruit, whether good or bad. The lesson is to be warned, especially if you love to talk.”19 The New Testament book of James devotes chapter three to warnings of the dangers of the tongue—perhaps a chapter Jakes would do well to read before opening his mouth to teach these kinds of false doctrines.

Jakes, instead of teaching that the reason for giving to the Lord is to further the spread of the gospel, espouses an extremely selfish reason for giving to the Lord—giving in order to receive more:

I want to pray over your seed, and it would be ridiculous for me to pray that God would give it back to you, because if all He was going to do was give it back to you, you ought to keep it and let you just have it….If you get a hundred dollars or a thousand dollars and you were going to give a thousand dollars, I tell you what, God is just going to give that thousand dollars back, well you just broke even. You could have kept that thousand dollars and not gone through the trouble. Come on, church folks! But God is going to give you some more on top of that.20

Jakes says that if you want something from God, you must invest something. “Many people do not understand, if you are going to receive something from the Lord you have to be prepared to invest something. So many times people want things out of life without any kind of investment. You can’t in the natural, in the stock market, you can’t get a return on a stock where you have not bought shares.”21

Would Jakes not give things to his children unless they gave him something first? Of course not! Likewise, God provides us with all of our needs—food, clothing, home, and all other necessities of life, and He does this out of His goodness and mercy, without any merit or worthiness on our part.

JOYCE MEYER

Joyce Meyer was named one of the top 25 evangelical leaders in the United States in 2005.22 Based in St. Louis, Missouri, she is best known for her personal testimony of abuse as a child by her father and her struggles in subsequent years. She has authored more than 70 books and hosts a daily television and radio show called Enjoying Everyday Life.23

Meyer holds an honorary doctorate of divinity degree from Oral Roberts University in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and a PhD in theology from Life Christian University in Tampa, Florida,24 a university and seminary that has given degrees in theology to Benny Hinn, Rodney Howard-Browne, and Kenneth Copeland.25

She undoubtedly has helped many who have suffered the abuse she did; still, there is great danger in her Word of Faith teachings. For example, she holds to the popular Word of Faith belief that faith is a force: “Unto every man is given the measure of faith, and faith is a powerful force….And the two greatest ways that we release our faith…is through sincere, heartfelt prayer and through the words of your mouth.”26

Faith is described in Scripture as trust in God’s promises, not as a tangible force. Hebrews 11:1 clearly states, “Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.”

Meyer also believes that people can speak things into existence: “It says in Romans 4:17 that….we have a God who gives life to the dead and He calls things that be not as though they already existed….If there’s something in your way, speak to it.”27 Yes, God can call things that do not exist as though they do, and He does give life to the dead, but Scripture does not say that people can.

Meyer embraces the “give-to-get” message espoused by her close friend Oral Roberts. “When I talked with Dr. Roberts today and we talked about this seed-faith thing, he said…when you give you get a receipt in heaven that when you have a need you can then go with your receipt and say ‘You see, God, I have got my receipt from my sowing and now I have a need and I’m cashing in my receipt.’”28

Meyer undoubtedly doesn’t intend to encourage people to come to the Master for the love of what is on the Master’s table, but that is the result of this mindset. The apostle John described true biblical love in 1 John 4:16–21 as love that we have “because Christ first loved us,” and, as Galatians 2:20 says, “gave himself for us.” We are to love sacrificially, as Christ did. Selfish love is interested only in what it can get for itself; that type of love is what results when people embrace the philosophy of the Faith movement.

It is Meyer’s contention that Jesus died to bestow, among other things, financial blessings on us:

He has unbelievably wonderful, awesome, radical blessings…. Every blessing is not just a financial blessing, but yes, financial blessings….And I really would like to just claim and use and enjoy as many of my blessings and as much of my inheritance as I possibly can, for two reasons: one, we all want to enjoy life, and second, I believe Jesus died for this purpose and I believe it brings Him joy when we mature enough to be able to receive the fullness of what He has for us.”29

Jesus died to pay the price for our sins. If we say that He died for any other reason, we detract from the central message of Scripture.

Finally, Meyer makes the startling claim that she is not a sinner: “I didn’t stop sinning until I finally got it through my thick head I wasn’t a sinner anymore. And the religious world thinks that’s heresy and they want to hang you for it. But the Bible says that I’m righteous, and I can’t be righteous and a sinner at the same time.”30

Meyer elaborated during an interview on KFUO radio in St. Louis, Missouri: “I know that I sin all the time and when I say that I’m not a sinner, I don’t mean that I don’t sin. I just mean that I’m not going to go around all the time identifying myself as a sinner, because that gives me the mentality then that that’s all I am.”31

Martin Luther addressed this concept and summed up the danger of this type of thinking superbly:

The saints at the same time as they are righteous are also sinners; righteous because they believe in Christ, whose righteousness covers them and is imputed to them, but sinners because they do not fulfill the Law, are not without concupiscence, and are like sick men under the care of a physician; they are sick in fact but healthy in hope and in the fact that they are beginning to be healthy, that is, they are ‘being healed.’ They are people for whom the worst possible thing is the presumption that they are healthy, because they suffer a worse relapse.32

JOEL OSTEEN

Joel Osteen took over as pastor of Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas, following the death of his father, John Osteen, in 1999. He has little theological training, having dropped out of Oral Roberts University in 1982 to run his father’s television ministry.33 Despite this lack of training, Lakewood Church has grown enormously, from a congregation of 6,000 in 1999 to one of 30,000 today,34 thanks largely to his gospel of self-esteem. His best-selling book Your Best Life Now has sold more than three million copies in hardback and has led to a multimillion-dollar contract for another book with Free Press, a division of Simon and Shuster, slated for publication in 2007.35

In addition to his gospel of self-esteem, Osteen also preaches the Word of Faith theology that his father taught. He says, for example, that words have creative power: “Our words are vital in bringing our dreams to pass. It’s not enough to simply see it by faith or in your imagination. You have to begin speaking words of faith over your life. Your words have enormous creative power. The moment you speak something out, you give birth to it.”36

Osteen, like Meyer and others, believes that every day “you should declare good things. Just look in the mirror and say ‘I am strong, I am healthy, I’m rising to new levels, I’m excited about my future.’ When you say that, it may not be true. You may not be very healthy today, or maybe you don’t have a lot of things to look forward to, but the Scripture tells us in Romans we have to call the things that are not as if they already were.”37

Osteen allots so much power to our words that they can even thwart God’s plans, as nearly happened, he claims, at the angel’s announcement of the birth of John the Baptist:

[Zechariah] was so surprised because he and his wife Elizabeth were well up there in years. He said to the angel, “Are you really sure this is going to happen? Do you see how old we are? I just don’t think this could be possible.”…The angel went on to say “But, Zechariah, because you didn’t believe, because you questioned God, you shall remain silent and not be able to speak until the baby is born.”…Well, why did God shut his mouth?…He knew Zechariah would go out and start talking to his friends. “Well, they said we’re gonna have a baby, but they must have gotten the wrong person. Man, we’re way too old!” See, God knows the power of our words. He knows we prophesy our future, and He knew Zechariah’s own negative words would stop His plan.38

Acknowledging that we may have negative thoughts, he adds, “But let me encourage you: don’t make the mistake of verbalizing those thoughts. The moment you speak something out it takes on a whole new meaning. See, one of the main ways we release our faith is through our words. That’s how we give life to our faith.”39

Osteen is giving more power to the creature—us—than to the Creator. As sons and daughters of God, we reflect the communicable attributes of God, such as love and intelligence, but we don’t reflect His incommunicable attributes, such as omnipotence. Our words don’t contain any magical power that can upset God’s plans.

Osteen promises that we can expect to receive preferential treatment in life from God:

I know when Victoria and I used to travel with my father overseas, a lot of times we would go over a few days early, and it was amazing how many times we would get upgraded to first class. When I’d go up to that counter I’d kid with Victoria and I’d say ‘Watch this! We’re going to get upgraded.’ And I’d go up there expecting to get preferential treatment. I’d go up there knowing that I have an advantage, I’ve got the favor of God….when I’d go up there I’d just smile real big and be real friendly and that whole time under my breath I’d be saying ‘Father, I thank you that I have your favor. I thank you that you’re causing me to stand out in the crowd. I thank you that your light is shining down on me.’ And Victoria will tell you time after time, for no reason at all, they’d bump us up to first class. See, that’s the favor of God….That’s God’s favor giving us preferential treatment.40

God isn’t inclined to fall for flattery, resulting in preferential treatment being given to some Christians over other people. If He were, He certainly has been falling asleep at the wheel when it comes to the persecuted Christians in the Sudan. This type of thinking is a trait of the North American church, which, for too many years, has expected God to serve it rather than expecting itself to serve God.

Lastly, Osteen holds to the popularly held Word of Faith error that Jesus did battle with Satan in hell. “For three days Jesus fought with the enemy. It was the battle of the ages, light versus darkness, good versus evil. But thank God Satan was no match for Jesus.”41

Osteen elaborates, “He grabbed Satan by the nap [sic] of his neck and He began to slowly drag him down the corridors of hell. All beat up and bruised because He wanted to make sure that every single demon saw very clearly that Jesus was indeed the undisputed Champion of all time!”42

In addition to the fact that Satan isn’t in hell, Jesus didn’t partially succeed on the cross and then finish the work in hell. He completed the work on the cross and pronounced that the debt had been paid (see, e.g., Rom. 6:10; John 19:30).

Turning Point Church World Outreach Center: Strategic Advance Intensive: Pacific Northwest Bible College: PNBC(SOMA)

Date: From Mar 10, 2010, to Mar 12, 2010
Time: From 9:00 am until 4:00 pm
Location: TBD


Required for all full time students. Must be enrolled to attend.
This will be an off site intensive. Students will all be attending the Vision Conference at Christian Faith Center in Federal Way, Washington.


Just great TPCWOC leadership sending the sheep into a pack of wolves.
They will get there teaching from false Word- Faith Movement teachers Casey and Wendy Treat, Bishop T.D. Jakes, and the famous Dr. Creflo Dollar.
The Word-Faith Movement is in the words of the Apostle Peter a "destructive heresy"(2 Peter2:1)
TPCWOC leadership you are not hiding your true intentions to lead many down the path to destruction.
You will shipwreck a many brothers and sisters in the faith.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2010 08:18AM by buddy.