After having read what the NAR is and having heard that the last "Fan the Flame" meeting was about how they are going into the NAR (and assuming they embrace the teachings wholy).

I would like to say that I now understand TPR and BH's urgentcy in having pastors confront Jeff and Mike. If they don't do it soon, they might be hearing but not listening. Lets hope that God has not let them be numbed to the voices of the pastors in the area.

Let us also pray that this church and others are able to see the lies and decite and come out of it.

TAD.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2010 02:45PM by TruthAfterDisillusionment.

Phun,

When you get a chance, if you haven't already, please check your private messages. I have sent you a few, inviting you to dialogue a bit. (I wasn't sure if you knew about the private message feature on this forum, that's why I'm posting this here.)

Thanks.

LP

C Peter Wangner is the Super Apostle of the New Apostolic Reformation - this is the movement that TPC and Mike have aligned with



Send to friend

OPEN LETTER to WAGNER, JOYNER...
-by Andrew Strom.

I write this as a tongues-speaking, Spirit-filled, prophesying
believer.

Dear Rick Joyner and C. Peter Wagner,

I will do my utmost to avoid disrespect in this letter. But I cannot
avoid the hard questions which must be asked.

I hope my comments here are not construed as "arrogant". This
is certainly not my intent. But I'm sure you have heard the news
by now that the tide has turned in what you call your "Civil War".
I'm sure you have heard that the Lakeland meetings have dwindled,
and the "big tent" has been abandoned in favor of the 700-seat
Ignite church once again. I'm sure you have heard that your man
Todd Bentley's meetings in England have been cancelled, and
that respected leaders even within your own movements have
found vast evidence of falsehoods, fraudulent claims, manipulation
and hype of the most blatant kind. The news of it is worldwide. It
is not just ABC Nightline. It is your own people saying these things.

I'm sure you have heard the news that has even shocked and
saddened me - that the British press is calling Bentley "A US
child sex offender turned church minister who tries to cure cancer
victims by kicking them" - and that 79% of Britons polled want to
keep him out of the country. Where is the glory to Jesus in this?
How could Todd even set foot in England under such a cloud?

Sirs, if this really were a 'Civil War', aren't you living in Gettysburg?

Mr Wagner, I am sure you are aware that because of your open
endorsement of Todd Bentley, numbers of your own ICA 'apostles'
(some very well-known) are already planning an "alternative"
network without all your 'Dominionist' trappings or NAR hierarchies.
Sir, they are leaving. Are you sure you were right to endorse the
Lakeland movement in the very face of your own apostles like that?
Wasn't this one of the most crucial tests of your leadership? Sir,
if your discernment is such that you could get on a stage and
openly endorse one of the most deceptive movements in the history
of the church, then - with all due respect - should you really be
heading up the apostles of the entire Charismatic world? Are you
aware that you have greatly endangered God's precious sheep all
around the globe?

And Mr Joyner, are you conscious of how terribly the Prophetic
movement has deteriorated on your watch, sir? As the most
influential 'father' in that movement, why have you stood by while
the "New Mystics" have taken over - with their gold dust, their
portals, their 'orbs', their drunken jerking, their strange "angel"
encounters and 'visualization' techniques, etc? In fact, why have
you actively encouraged and participated in these very things yourself?

Isn't it true that Bob Jones has been a big mentor for you in these
things, just like he was for Todd Bentley? Wasn't it Bob Jones
who taught you how to "visualize" your way into the 'Third Heaven',
Mr Joyner? Isn't Bob Jones one of the major hidden influences
behind your ministry? Where do you get your visions? How do you
write your books? How can we ever again trust the "angels" that
you see? Sir, what were you thinking - to openly endorse the
"New Mystics" as you did with Todd Bentley? Did you not see
that it could end so badly?

We all know what Bob Jones said when he stood on the stage with
Todd Bentley in front of the whole world:
BOB: "I released my angels to him... this man from Canada asked
for my angels; this Wind of Change is most powerful. Except for
the arch angels, this 'Winds of Change', this is the most powerful
angel..."
BOB TO TODD BENTLEY: "As I watch you, you VIBRATE. You
know there are two portals, clockwise and counter-clockwise.
When you vibrate you close demonic vibration. Counter-clockwise
vibration is demonic. The vibration is healing. Does it seem peculiar?"
[He waves his hands]... "I'm releasing it to you."

A very basic question here: Is there anything even remotely biblical
about any of this?

Mr Joyner, since Bob Jones is your major mentor, and since you
stood on the stage and openly endorsed that whole movement, I
guess we have to assume that this is the kind of "Prophetic" that
you now represent? Isn't that fair to say, sir?

And now I need to ask some questions of my colleagues overseas:
Isn't it true, my friends, that almost every deceptive fad or heresy
of the last 25 years has come out of North America? (ie. The USA
and Canada)? And hasn't it been growing worse and worse?

When I travel to Africa I find deadly "Prosperity" teaching rampant
in the most poverty-stricken of nations. When I travel to Europe
I find them bombarded with flakey 'prophets' from the States.
When I travel to Australia I find them enthralled with 'Mega-church-
Itis' imported from the USA. In every way, North America has
become a source of utter pollution, sickness and compromise -
both in the church and the world. And I believe God wants to put
an end to it.

Personally I love Americans. I lived there for four years, and I have
many dear friends in that part of the world. But I do not believe that
God is going to allow this pollution to spread any longer.

Why do leaders in Australia or Europe think that their movements
must be led by Americans? What nation is most of this pollution
coming from? Why do African leaders allow sick money-grubbing
telecasts from the USA to be beamed to their people via satellite?
Why are any of us allowing any of this garbage? When are we
going to stand up and cry, "ENOUGH"? When are we going to
cut off this pollution - not just for ourselves - but for the sake of
God's precious sheep? Why should we be led by America if they
are leading us into deception?

Should North America even be allowed to lead the worldwide church
any more?

And finally, let me return to Mr Joyner - who once intimated that it
is time to "drive" out those who want to "test the spirits" in the
church. Sir, let me say to you that indeed the time has come to
drive a particular spirit out. It is the spirit of rampant "Charis-mania".
And sir, I have to say with all due respect, that your very own
movement strikes me as the primest of prime places in which to start.

Discuss this on our Forum at- [www.revivalschool.com]

Send feedback to- prophetic@revivalschool.com

FEEL FREE TO FORWARD or POST THIS on BLOGS, etc.

God bless you all.

Andrew Strom.


All I can say is, AMEN - TPR

Just a refresher althought some of you have probably seen this already. Mike and Cyndi did attend a Bill Johnson service - the word is that they did not meet with him. I doubt that.

[www.youtube.com]









Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2010 06:01PM by Mville04.

I found this article and after reading it I thought of TPC. I also thought that if these were the kind of personalities that we found in say a school system administration we would clammer for their removal. Oh yeah we did and they are gone! So why did we put up with it in our church? The answer lack of accountability. You judge who is who for yourselves. Love may cover a mulitude of sins, but abuse by any other name is still abuse.

Toxic Personalities to Avoid

April 28, 2009 | by Brett Blumenthal

Although we like to think that the people in our lives are well-adjusted, happy, healthy minded individuals, we sometimes realize that it just isn’t so. Personally, I’ve had moments where I’ll be skipping through my day, happy as can be, thinking life is grand and BAM, I’ll be blindsided by someone who manages to knock the happy wind out of my sails. Sometimes it is easy to write it off and other times, not so much.

Maybe you are a positive person, but when you are around a certain individual, you feel negative. Or, maybe you have an idealistic view of the world and when you are with certain people, you are made to feel silly, unrealistic or delusional. Or, maybe you pride yourself in being completely independent and in control of your life, but when you are around a certain family member, you regress into a state of childhood.

Some of these situations, and yes, these people, can have a tremendously negative impact on our lives. And, although we are all human and have our ‘issues,’ some ‘issues’ are quite frankly, toxic. They are toxic to our happiness. They are toxic to our mental outlook. They are toxic to our self-esteem. And they are toxic to our lives. They can suck the life out of us and even shorten our lifespan.

Here are the worst of the toxic personalities out there and how to spot them:

1. Manipulative Mary: These individuals are experts at manipulation tactics. Is a matter of fact, you may not even realize you have been manipulated until it is too late. These individuals figure out what your ‘buttons’ are, and push them to get what they want.

• Why they are toxic: These people have a way of eating away at your belief system and self-esteem. They find ways to make you do things that you don’t necessarily want to do and before you know it, you lose your sense of identity, your personal priorities and your ability to see the reality of the situation. The world all of a sudden becomes centered around their needs and their priorities.

2. Narcissistic Nancy: These people have an extreme sense of self-importance and believe that the world revolves around them. They are often not as sly as the Manipulative Marys of the world, but instead, tend to be a bit overt about getting their needs met. You often want to say to them “It isn’t always about you.”

• Why they are toxic: They are solely focused on their needs, leaving your needs in the dust. You are left disappointed and unfulfilled. Further, they zap your energy by getting you to focus so much on them, that you have nothing left for yourself.

3. Debbie Downers: These people can’t appreciate the positive in life. If you tell them that it is a beautiful day, they will tell you about the impending dreary forecast. If you tell them you aced a mid-term, they’ll tell you about how difficult the final is going to be.

• Why they are toxic: They take the joy out of everything. Your rosy outlook on life continues to get squashed with negativity. Before you know it, their negativity consumes you and you start looking at things with gray colored glasses yourself.

4. Judgmental Jims: When you see things as cute and quirky, they see things as strange and unattractive. If you find people’s unique perspectives refreshing, they find them ‘wrong’. If you like someone’s eclectic taste, they find it ‘disturbing’ or ‘bad’.

• Why they are toxic: Judgmental people are much like Debbie Downers. In a world where freedom rings, judgment is sooo over. If the world was a homogeneous place, life would be pretty boring. Spending a lot of time with these types can inadvertently convert you into a judgmental person as well.

5. Dream Killing Keiths: Every time you have an idea, these people tell you why you can’t do it. As you achieve, they try to pull you down. As you dream, they are the first to tell you it is impossible.

• Why they are toxic: These people are stuck in what is instead of what could be. Further, these individuals eat away at your self-esteem and your belief in yourself. Progress and change can only occur from doing new things and innovating, dreaming the impossible and reaching for the stars.

6. Insincere Illissas: You never quite feel that these people are being sincere. You tell a funny story, they give you a polite laugh. You feel depressed and sad and they give you a ‘there, there’ type response. You tell them you are excited about something and you get a very ho-hum response.

• Why they are toxic: People who aren’t sincere or genuine build relationships on superficial criteria. This breeds shallow, meaningless relationships. When you are really in need of a friend, they won’t be there. When you really need constructive criticism, they would rather tell you that you are great the way you are. When you need support, they would rather see you fail or make a fool of yourself.

7. Disrespectful Dannys: These people will say or do things at the most inappropriate times and in the most inappropriate ways. In essence, they are more subtle, grown up bullies. Maybe this person is a friend who you confided in and uses your secret against you. Maybe it is a family member who puts their busy-body nose into your affairs when it is none of their business. Or maybe, it is a colleague who says demeaning things to you.

• Why they are toxic: These people have no sense of boundaries and don’t respect your feelings or, for that matter, your privacy. These people will cause you to feel frustrated and disrespected.

8. Never Enough Nellies: You can never give enough to these people to make them happy. They take you for granted and have unrealistic expectations of you. They find ways to continually fault you and never take responsibility for anything themselves.

• Why they are toxic: You will spend so much time trying to please them, that you will end up losing yourself in the process. They will require all of your time and energy, leaving you worn out and your own needs sacrificed.
All of these personalities have several things in common. 1) the more these people get away with their behavior, the more they will continue. 2) Unfortunately, most of these people don’t see that what they do is wrong and as a result, talking to them about it will fall on deaf ears, leaving you wondering if you are the crazy one. 3) Most of these people get worse with age, making their impact on you stronger with time.
Frankly, life is too short to spend your time dealing with toxicity. If you can, avoid spending mucho time with people who are indicative of these behaviors and you’ll feel a lot happier.


[www.sheerbalance.com]

Saddened

TPCWOC leadership have been a Bill Johnson fan for quite a time now. A year ago when we decided to leave, my sons discipler group, the leader had a Bill Johnson book and was teaching out of it and shared with my son on how he was a big fan of his. And when I was on vacation in Redding last summer in late July the media leader on staff at TPCWOC took a bunch of youth down to the Bill Johnsons, Bethel Church. Some really wierd stuff has been happening down there like gold dust and diamonds appearing. Also there has been reports of angel feathers falling during the worship service.

www.redding.com/.../bethels-signs-and-wonders-include-angel-feathers/

Behold! Mike encourages his congregation to be bloggers...

[mikevillamor.wordpress.com]

...maybe that's why we heard from Phun recently.

However, look at the comments following his article. NOT ONE challenged ANYTHING Mike said. All praised the narcissist and lauded his perspective and his teaching points and his quips, ad nauseum. Not even one question! I wonder if when anyone of these folks blogs and then is challenged on his or her perspective/position how he/she will know how to handle it? I wonder how Mike would handle being challenged on his blog? We will probably never know.

Among other things I disagreed with in Mike's article, probably the most offensive was his "Chateau St. Jesus" quip, which I found to be flatly irreverent; Jesus isn't a saint, he's the Christ! To refer to Jesus and His work so glibly is telling of Mike's perspective both on himself and on Christ, as well as an indicator of his casual approach to the Word of God. He complains that we "dis" him on this forum, and yet--infinately worse than even the worst thing on here--Mike, the "Apostle," speaks irreverently of our Savior to gain a grin or giggle from his audience. I don't recall ANY of the biblical apostles ever making an irreverent quip about Jesus or His ministry to gain personal "wit" points from their readers.

This isn't meant to be nit-picking. These are showing/telling cracks in Mike's ministry facade, which the adoring masses are unable--or in the case of some leaders, unwilling--to detect and then subsequently to discern the underlying issues.

This is the "Apostle" who plans to unify the Marysville pastors under his you-can't-question-me-I'm-God's-progressive-revelation-oracle authority.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2010 04:05PM by LearningPoint.

LP, you are absolutely right.

I peeked at some of the other blogs of the people who just had to start one because he said so. Very few are still writing or ever started at all. It was a one or two day thing for most. Probably to get the proverbial pat on the head from MV, then they could stop putting forth the effort.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2010 04:53PM by belongs2Him.

2 Cor. 11:12-15 And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

This is all you need to know about the New Apostolic Reformation. Case closed!

[www.deceptioninthechurch.com]


This works for me. The case against the NAR begins and ends with the Word of God.

D of D

A Deacon is missing from the photo page at TPCWOC home web site!